OO scale Class 50, Hornby v Lima?

[TravisM]

I’m thinking of getting a couple of Class 50’s for my layout but looking at the some of the prices of the used Hornby model’s, it got me thinking was the Lima model so bad?  
 

I know there’s issues around the windscreen shape and lack of buffer beam detail but I feel that could be put right with a few detailing parts.  I think Craftsman used to do them but I’m not sure if their still in business.  I’ve also been told that they can be hard wired for a DCC chip, so they can run on my layout, though I think sound is out.

 

If anyone has any views on this, both positive and negative, I’d like to see them.

[Dagworth]

The Lima 50 has HO scale bogies. 

 

Hornby every time on that one.

 

Andi

 

 

[forest2807]

Andi is quite right, the Hornby model, despite some criticism for having too many ‘gimmicks’ (revolving fans, opening louvres and cab doors) is head and shoulders above the Lima offering, but they are products of their time. Some modellers have put Lima Class 37 bogies beneath Lima 50’s and discarded the HO bogies, but I’ve not done it myself, although it is a clever way of using any spares you may have kicking around, and could be quite cost effective.

[ClikC]

Hornby class 50 mechanism is butter smooth, but the model is not without its faults. I have seven of them in various states of work to convert them to P4, add detail and make applicable changes to how they looked on the LMR circa 1974. All are currently in storage with the rents.

Chief negatives (your mileage may of course vary).

 

Couple of toy like features (“working” cab doors and radiator grills) ruin the look of the bodysides.

 

Wheels are too small 12mm instead of 14.x mm for the 3’7” prototype. Bogies too far from the Solebar. Both decisions made to accommodate 2nd radius curves I believe. Alan Gibson sell wheels in the correct size which are more or less a straight swap. There is a boss to file down to reduce the ride height of the model (it’s a pigs ear to do, mazak is awful stuff, get yourself a good b***ard file). Nearly every model suffers from the ‘banana’ bogies resulting ‘rocking’ on the central axle (handful of ways to fix this, from smaller diameter centre wheels, to opening out the centre axle holes or even full springing).

 

Face has a few issues. Cab windscreens, get yourself the Shawplan etch (and roof fan too)! Nose could do with ‘building up’ with milliput or the like, then reprofiled against pictures.

Depending one year of production, BR Blue paint may be too dark in comparison to more modern releases, but that’s a whole argument in itself.

 

All in all its great base model, with some work out into it can be made spectacular.

 

Regards

 

Matt

Edited February 3, 2021 by ClikC
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[Legend]

There is no doubt that the Hornby loco is the better one with smoother mechanism . However the Lima one still looks acceptable to me and a good few others . If you want an example of that , have a look at the layout in February’s Hornby Mag (the March edition is out tomorrow , so if you’ve not got it you’ll need to be quick) Penmouth. & Curzon Street who uses detailed and weathered Lima locos . Frankly the locos look superb there and shows how well the loco brushes up . Of course you may get 2 Lima 50s for the price of a Hornby one , so that’s a factor .  Other items to consider if you run DCC then I think the Hornby one is DCC ready (not sure about early ones as they’ve been around for some time now)  while the Lima one isn’t and will need to be modified .  While I find Lima locos are reliable and powerful runners the reality is the mechanism is probably  pretty noisy , so there’s that to consider too 

 

So if you are a real 50 fan with DCC I’d say Hornby . But if you want an acceptable loco to run from time to time then I think I’d tend to Lima . 

[dj_crisp]

Hornby with the mods mentioned above for me as well. I have a feeling the Lima one is a bit on the short side but could be wrong. 

 

Saying that I've seen some nice looking Lima ones and I use Lima bodyside grills on my Hornby 50s

 

Will

 

 

[rob D2]

I don’t know how long you can wait , but I need 50s for any future western layout, and unimpressed by both, I’m waiting for a new entrant to make a definitive version . 
 

must be absolutely ripe for picking 

[Legend]

Cant see that there’s much wrong with the Hornby one . Seems well regarded by the likes of Everard Junction . I don’t think the Lima one is short but the bogies are certainly smaller than they should be 

[dj_crisp]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I don’t know how long you can wait , but I need 50s for any future western layout, and unimpressed by both, I’m waiting for a new entrant to make a definitive version . 
 

must be absolutely ripe for picking 

 

When I've finished all of mine is when they'll annouce a new RTR version! I still have a few on the bench though so maybe a few years yet!

 

[Steamport Southport]

On 03/02/2021 at 18:20, dj_crisp said:

Hornby with the mods mentioned above for me as well. I have a feeling the Lima one is a bit on the short side but could be wrong. 

 

Saying that I've seen some nice looking Lima ones and I use Lima bodyside grills on my Hornby 50s

 

Will

 

 

 

It was the Deltic that was too short.

 

They started to make it to H0 scale but changed to 00 after the original H0 Class 33 was a flop. Unfortunately they kept the wrong length and the bogies. It was thought that it wouldn't go around train set track if it was correct. Similar thinking as Hornby with the short HST coaches.

 

There used to be a Craftsman detailing kit that corrected the error and had the correct grills. As well as one to convert it to DP2. A lot of work though.

 

 

Jason

[Legend]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

It was the Deltic that was too short.

 

They started to make it to H0 scale but changed to 00 after the original H0 Class 33 was a flop. Unfortunately they kept the wrong length and the bogies. It was thought that it wouldn't go around train set track if it was correct. Similar thinking as Hornby with the short HST coaches.

 

There used to be a Craftsman detailing kit that corrected the error and had the correct grills. As well as one to convert it to DP2. A lot of work though.

 

 

Jason

 Did they then go on and use the same bogies on the 50? That would explain their short lenght .

[rob D2]

13 hours ago, Legend said:

Cant see that there’s much wrong with the Hornby one . Seems well regarded by the likes of Everard Junction . I don’t think the Lima one is short but the bogies are certainly smaller than they should be 

Well that’s up to him but ,

steps on buffers that always fall off and are a pain to keep on .

 

operating side louvres that are pointless and often go out of true .

 

Opening cab doors .

 

8 pin DCC socket .

 

Ever increasing price for ever more ancient tooling .

 

Not sure about the actual shape , I’m sure someone will know if it’s any good .

 

I’d maybe get a couple at £120 certainly not £180 

[Legend]

34 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Well that’s up to him but ,

steps on buffers that always fall off and are a pain to keep on .

 

operating side louvres that are pointless and often go out of true .

 

Opening cab doors .

 

8 pin DCC socket .

 

Ever increasing price for ever more ancient tooling .

 

Not sure about the actual shape , I’m sure someone will know if it’s any good .

 

I’d maybe get a couple at £120 certainly not £180 

 

Fair point on price , but Accurascale would probably come in much the same I think , although no doubt it would be fully detailed and have a lot of functionality.   Trouble is would it be better enough that everyone would want to stick their Hornby 50s on eBay and go for a new one .  I suspect not . If its Heljan , well their 47 is already north of £200 , so its not going to be cheaper .

[rob D2]

14 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Fair point on price , but Accurascale would probably come in much the same I think , although no doubt it would be fully detailed and have a lot of functionality.   Trouble is would it be better enough that everyone would want to stick their Hornby 50s on eBay and go for a new one .  I suspect not . If its Heljan , well their 47 is already north of £200 , so its not going to be cheaper .

I think I’d be happy for £170 + for something delivered to today’s standards - Hornby 50 must be 15 years old I’m guessing ? 

I always wonder why , say even Bachmann , don’t look at something like the 50 ( which still has a big following and plenty of liveries) , and say we’ll do that better .

 

I've long maintained the31/50/56 are ripe for someone muscling in 

 

 

[dj_crisp]

I have a few bodyshells lying around for my last 50 project so thought I'd share a few photos of them.... maybe someone will find them useful.

 

Front end... Lima left, Hornby mid and reprofiling Hornby front nose right.

 

Shawplan frames make a big difference... but then you notice hornbys flat nose. Lima probably needs to be flatter. If I had more skill I'd attempt to sort out the cantrail too but thats beyond me. Personally I don't think anyone (including me) has got this area spot on (and in any gauge).

 

 

Roofs benefit from a few tweaks with my attempt below

 

 

I dont know if everything is bang on position wise but hopefully Shawplans etches correct the glaring errors.

 

And my memory of the Lima shell is its shorter and a bit thinner than Hornby. Lining up headcode panels one end shows they are different length but I think they're the same width.

 

 

Underframe wise Lima really doesn't come close to Hornby. But then you really have to lower it and fit closer to scale wheels as the original is a comprise for going round tight curves. 

 

I'm sure a retooling will happen one day but I doubt I'll be in the market for many. For me though the front windows and nose will need to be spot on. And I don't think the roof grille etch Brian does can be matched commercially.... a true work of art!

 

I often wonder which models will be retooled and which are pretty much as good as it gets. I guess the ones with the worse shape or sub classes that haven't been done before are first in line. 

 

Anyhow he's one of my attempts which is no doubt is full of mistakes and errors! And it took me three respray attempts!

 

Cheers

Will

[rob D2]

^^^^^^ 

I’m worn out just looking at your mods...;)

I’ll wait for an accurascale or someone . It meets all the criteria for a redo - old tooling / good following / lots of liveries from 1968 to the present .

 

I like em because they broke up the GWML monotony of HSTs and 117s when I was small, and of course the LL numbers were easy to read and then look in the spotters book and pick out the name plate of some gallant war ship.

[Dagworth]

On 08/02/2021 at 07:41, Legend said:

 Did they then go on and use the same bogies on the 50? That would explain their short lenght .

Yes, the 50 used the deltic bogies. 
 

Andi

[S&DWatty]

Here's my penneth worth:

 

Ive got a Hornby 50 and added TTS sound only, detailed the ends and am happy with it.  It's silky-smooth runner and sounds good.

 

2 off Lima ones (large logo and NSE).  Ive re-motored, DDC hard wired, detailed the ends and got rid of the ludicrous couplers by using wire over the buffers in my house style.

 

Im happy with all the models and price was a big factor in getting the Lima ones to be honest.  They run ok but dont crawl at slow speed like the Hornby one.  You get what you pay for and the close-up detail is not so apparent at normal viewing distances and scale 100 mph........