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There are several excellent rail gen archives around that give details of locos working certain services over the years, however I am finding that generally HSTs are not included.

 

Can anyone recommend a gen archive or site that includes HST data?

 

Or failing that would anyone on here have fairly decent records in the early to mid 90s of HST workings on the WCML? 

 

Thanks 

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I didn't start recording HST's until about 2 years after I got into haulage, and even then, it was often just HST, not the set or power cars. Same with DMU's & EMU's. Wish I had taken more notes now.

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44 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

I didn't start recording HST's until about 2 years after I got into haulage, and even then, it was often just HST, not the set or power cars. Same with DMU's & EMU's. Wish I had taken more notes now.

Yeah i think there are alot who wish they'd paid more attention to the seemingly mundane, after all HSTS in 2021 are one of the best things we have left in regular service....

I wonder if there are any spotters as opposed to bashers,  who recorded everything they saw at a given location, say Preston or Carlisle in the early 90s? I guess there's more chance those folks would record numbers of everything they see? 

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Probably the advantage with HSTs is that most power cars in their respective pools will have worked most individual trains during each timetable period, especially so in the smaller pools post 1994. If someone had evidence that, for example, 43115 hadn't worked the 1200 Kings Cross-Inverness at any point during the 1996 summer t/t I'd be very surprised!

 

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6 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Probably the advantage with HSTs is that most power cars in their respective pools will have worked most individual trains during each timetable period, especially so in the smaller pools post 1994. If someone had evidence that, for example, 43115 hadn't worked the 1200 Kings Cross-Inverness at any point during the 1996 summer t/t I'd be very surprised!

 

Ah, see I am looking for evidence of the unusual! 

I am trying to establish if a western set ever worked a Poole to Glasgow service in this period, or even the Penzance to Glasgow, both of which were allocated to Eastern region sets. 

The Pooles id say is less likely as it had to be a ssl bogie set, but i reckon there must be examples out there of western sets on the PZ to Glasgow. 

I know that western sets DID work the Plymouth Aberdeen trains, but im more interested in the stuff going to Glasgy!

I have seen footage of 43012 at Glasgow Central in October 1991 but have been unable to verify what it was on, it may even have arrived up the ECML...

Edited by 125_driver
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16 minutes ago, 125_driver said:

Ah, see I am looking for evidence of the unusual! 

I am trying to establish if a western set ever worked a Poole to Glasgow service in this period, or even the Penzance to Glasgow, both of which were allocated to Eastern region sets. 

The Pooles id say is less likely as it had to be a ssl bogie set, but i reckon there must be examples out there of western sets on the PZ to Glasgow. 

I know that western sets DID work the Plymouth Aberdeen trains, but im more interested in the stuff going to Glasgy!

I have seen footage of 43012 at Glasgow Central in October 1991 but have been unable to verify what it was on, it may even have arrived up the ECML...

Then I think Flickr etc is definitely your best bet. Even then, I think you'll struggle. Good luck!

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16 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Then I think Flickr etc is definitely your best bet. Even then, I think you'll struggle. Good luck!

Tried it , and there really isn't a great deal of HST pics out there on the upper WCML in the early 90s. The ones I have seen do all appear to be ER sets....

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3 hours ago, 125_driver said:

Ah, see I am looking for evidence of the unusual! 

I am trying to establish if a western set ever worked a Poole to Glasgow service in this period, or even the Penzance to Glasgow, both of which were allocated to Eastern region sets. 

The Pooles id say is less likely as it had to be a ssl bogie set, but i reckon there must be examples out there of western sets on the PZ to Glasgow. 

I know that western sets DID work the Plymouth Aberdeen trains, but im more interested in the stuff going to Glasgy!

I have seen footage of 43012 at Glasgow Central in October 1991 but have been unable to verify what it was on, it may even have arrived up the ECML...

But the Western XC sets were SSL by then anyway so nothing, other than the need for some sort of disruption to diagrams, would have prevented one of the WR based Cross-Country rakes working to Poole! I did follow them from about that period but only to travel on them, so no mass recording of what worked what, and as a Western based person I'd have been disappointed at the arrival of a WR pair on one of the ScR based turns.

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On 05/02/2021 at 21:47, rodent279 said:

Wish I could help, but I'm just as guilty as everyone else of turning the other way!

Same as........I recorded a lot of them from 1983 but "Tram" appears all to frequently in my records! Too busy running for connections in some cases, but recorded enough to show i had a decent proportion of the fleet over the years. The empty spaces make me question my judgment now!

 

Regards

 

Guy

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Is it worth contacting the 125 Group? Their members magazine usually contains quite a lot of information on workings. My brother is a member and passes his copies on to me to keep once he has finished with them. Some of the members may well be able to confirm the details from their own gen info.

Cheers Paul 

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I am a 125 group member myself and have had a look through my back catalogue of magazines, admittedly not with a fine tooth comb, so may have missed something, but certainly couldn't find anything in any of the ones I consulted. I did put a similar question on a HST forum ( and i suspect 5454 responded to me on there too, and was helpful ) however ot does seem the gen isn't out there or maybe it just didn't happen!

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Freightmaster Publishing did a series of "Class One" guides to loco hauled passenger services which give details of services passing through specific locations.

 

Although aimed at loco hauled workings they do also include details of HST operated services. They list the loco hauled diagrams but unfortunately not those for HST so wouldn't specifically identify what set went where.

 

You may also find some details on the Taunton Trains website:

 

https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/workingslog

 

 

Edited by SP Steve
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1 hour ago, SP Steve said:

Freightmaster Publishing did a series of "Class One" guides to loco hauled passenger services which give details of services passing through specific locations.

 

Although aimed at loco hauled workings they do also include details of HST operated services. They list the loco hauled diagrams but unfortunately not those for HST so wouldn't specifically identify what set went where.

 

You may also find some details on the Taunton Trains website:

 

https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/workingslog

 

 

The taunton database is very good. Unfortunately where there was HST data it confirmed 100 percent of WCML services where in the hands of ER sets. The only question mark was an 0700 from Glasgow to Plymouth which was a WR set, but i think this may be via the ECML, though if anyone can confirm I'd be grateful....

 

Also surprised to see an ER set working a 1935 Padd to Plymouth in 1993 I think, I cant imagine that would happen all too often, and vice versa with WR sets kings cross workings.....

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6 hours ago, 125_driver said:

The taunton database is very good. Unfortunately where there was HST data it confirmed 100 percent of WCML services where in the hands of ER sets. The only question mark was an 0700 from Glasgow to Plymouth which was a WR set, but i think this may be via the ECML, though if anyone can confirm I'd be grateful....

 

Also surprised to see an ER set working a 1935 Padd to Plymouth in 1993 I think, I cant imagine that would happen all too often, and vice versa with WR sets kings cross workings.....

There were ad-hoc occasions when a set strayed off route, usually following a breakdown of a set off region and there being a spare "local" set available to replace it. Also, several of the ER power cars came to Bath Road for their major exams back in the late 1980's and early 1990's and often these would get used on the WR for a day or ten to "make sure they were OK" before sending them back. This was because the capacity for level 5 overhauls was not quite enough at Neville Hill for the fleet size at the time, but this arrangement certainly would have finished by 1993.

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@125 _driver

The only question mark was an 0700 from Glasgow to Plymouth which was a WR set, but i think this may be via the ECML, though if anyone can confirm I'd be grateful....

 

In the summer 1990 public timetable (weekdays)

7.00 am glasgow (queen st)is via edinburgh and newcastle etc

but is shown to penzance arriving at 18.17 calling at most major cornish stations

It was called The Cornishman

 

There was also a train called the cornish scot leaving glasgow central 9 44 and using west coast route

arriving in plymouth  18.11 and calling major cornish stations arriving penzance 2020

mike james

Edited by mikejames
to add info re 'cornish scot'
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