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Graham Farish Spring 2021 new announcements


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36 minutes ago, grahame said:

There was a time when we were lucky to get one or two new model releases each year. Things have changed significantly in the 21st century and expectations have increased along with that.

 

But overall, IMO, the picture and future for N gauge isn't bad when considering what's available (quality and range compared with the past) and the list of development due from a large number of manufacturers. It could be better though, especially from Farish.

 

 

The dim past when we got one or two new models a year was also the time when retailers had the vast majority of the range in stock - if you wanted a Maroon Mk1 you could get them. Yes they needed renumbering and detailing if you wanted them to look good but they were available. Now you have a GF cabinet about a third full  with mainly rule 1 models e.g. LMR Austerity.

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34 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

The dim past when we got one or two new models a year was also the time when retailers had the vast majority of the range in stock - if you wanted a Maroon Mk1 you could get them.

 

In the dim and distant past you could get a Mk1 coach but that was the only type you could get. No Mk2s or any other types/range of any colour. And now the Mk1s are a world of quality and detail improvements.

 

There's not a lack of choice now - it's just different. And, as most people have cottoned on to, batch production often means you need to pre-order or potentially miss out until the next batch is produced (which can be some time particularly with the current worldwide issues).

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, fezza said:

If people think the Farish range and availability is good could they explain how I could model either the GW main line, WCML, ECML or any major modern route using the Farish range currently available?

 

It's probably unrealistic (and perhaps absurd) to expect one company to produce a range large enough to be able to model every location, in every era, in the whole of the UK. Even Hornby don't do that in OO/4mm. And you certainly couldn't expect them to duplicate models other manufacturers produce that do address those modern route modelling requirements. 

 

However, the Farish range is good and larger in comparison with any other manufacturer producing British N gauge RTR models. And sometime we have to resort to some constructive modelling to supplement RTR ranges.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

In the dim and distant past you could get a Mk1 coach but that was the only type you could get. No Mk2s or any other types/range of any colour. And now the Mk1s are a world of quality and detail improvements.

 

There's not a lack of choice now - it's just different. And, as most people have cottoned on to, batch production often means you need to pre-order or potentially miss out until the next batch is produced (which can be some time particularly with the current worldwide issues).

 

 

 

In the late 80/s early 90's GF did

 

Mk1 4 models, at least 5 liveries.

Mk2c 2 models, NSE livery

Mk2 DEF, 2 models, 4 liveries.

Mk3/3a 4 models, 4 liveries.

Mk4 5 models ICS livery

 

Your two points in your last paragraph are mutually exclusive. If you need to pre-order, you don't have a choice of which model to buy of you go into a model shop.

 

And in your point to fezza you miss the point - we are not asking to model every location in every era. Apart from possibly an ECML set of Mk 1 Pulmans you cannot accurately model any principle passenger train from the ECML, WCML or GWML from about 1965 onwards using GF models which are in stock at somewhere like Kernow models.

 

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1 hour ago, Bomag said:

 

In the late 80/s early 90's GF did

 

Mk1 4 models, at least 5 liveries.

Mk2c 2 models, NSE livery

Mk2 DEF, 2 models, 4 liveries.

Mk3/3a 4 models, 4 liveries.

Mk4 5 models ICS livery

 

Your two points in your last paragraph are mutually exclusive. If you need to pre-order, you don't have a choice of which model to buy of you go into a model shop.

 

And in your point to fezza you miss the point - we are not asking to model every location in every era. Apart from possibly an ECML set of Mk 1 Pulmans you cannot accurately model any principle passenger train from the ECML, WCML or GWML from about 1965 onwards using GF models which are in stock at somewhere like Kernow models.

 

 

Those coach ranges were not available in the 'distant' past - I certainly remember them being introduced. They haven't always been available nor all suddenly became available. Plus most of those ranges have been superseded at a later date with better quality versions.

 

And of course you do have a choice when pre-ordering - whether to order or not, or which of the ones (usually several liveries are produced at the same time) and how many, or whether you spend the money on other manufacturers models.

 

The argument is pointless and unreasonable in stipulating a specific modelling period, the type of shop the products can be purchased from and when you can buy them. However, they have produced models for those lines/period but some people will have missed the boat by not pre-ordering or purchasing at the time and will have to wait for the next batch. 

 

Saying they don't produce a particular range for a particular line, for a particular period and equate that to not offering choice and not having a large range is pointless. You cannot expect Farish (as one manufacturer) to produce ranges to satisfy every modellers particular wants, and have them continually available all the time. There are other manufacturers who do and will help fulfil those wants.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, grahame said:

 

It's probably unrealistic (and perhaps absurd) to expect one company to produce a range large enough to be able to model every location, in every era, in the whole of the UK. Even Hornby don't do that in OO/4mm. And you certainly couldn't expect them to duplicate models other manufacturers produce that do address those modern route modelling requirements. 

 

However, the Farish range is good and larger in comparison with any other manufacturer producing British N gauge RTR models. And sometime we have to resort to some constructive modelling to supplement RTR ranges.

 

 

 

 

I don't ask to be able to model every location, just ONE main line modern example (with say 3  main freight or passenger trains you would typically see on the route).

 

You could perhaps just about argue for a cross country service like Birmingham -Peterborough but even then you wouldn't really have the freight rolling stock and you'd be limited to 2 car 170s rather than the 3 cars of the prototype.

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5 hours ago, fezza said:

 

I don't ask to be able to model every location, just ONE main line modern example (with say 3  main freight or passenger trains you would typically see on the route).

 

You could perhaps just about argue for a cross country service like Birmingham -Peterborough but even then you wouldn't really have the freight rolling stock and you'd be limited to 2 car 170s rather than the 3 cars of the prototype.

 

You can't please everyone and you may have to wait a long time to amass a representative collection from multiple manufactureres. It is not a new phenonmenon, in fact I don't think you can realistically buy off the peg for many lines even during the BR period. A quick look at the outer suburban lines comes up with the following omissions;

GWML - no class 117s, 119s or 121 bubble car trailers

MML - no class 127s or 317s

WCML - no class 81-5, 310s or 304s or 501s

ECML - no class 105s

GEML - no emus or class 105s

SR lines - most emus and all thumpers missing

Birmingham area - no class 81-85, 116s, 304, 310, 312 or 323s

 

I have been collecting now for well over 15 years, and there are still items I would like for the 1970-90 period, so Rule 1 will be used for certain workings.

 

With regards to slow progress in re-releases, it could be down to the latest demands on quality and fidelity, where fitting lights and speakers etc. means that it just isn't worth modifying old tools, and new ones have to be designed. The problem with most moulding tools is that metal off is easy, but metal on can be a big problem, thus it is easier to cut new metal. Just consider the cries of derision if the class 158 was re-released without lights and sound options.....

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28 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

 

You can't please everyone and you may have to wait a long time to amass a representative collection from multiple manufactureres. It is not a new phenonmenon, in fact I don't think you can realistically buy off the peg for many lines even during the BR period. A quick look at the outer suburban lines comes up with the following omissions;

GWML - no class 117s, 119s or 121 bubble car trailers

MML - no class 127s or 317s

WCML - no class 81-5, 310s or 304s or 501s

ECML - no class 105s

GEML - no emus or class 105s

SR lines - most emus and all thumpers missing

Birmingham area - no class 81-85, 116s, 304, 310, 312 or 323s

 

I have been collecting now for well over 15 years, and there are still items I would like for the 1970-90 period, so Rule 1 will be used for certain workings.

 

With regards to slow progress in re-releases, it could be down to the latest demands on quality and fidelity, where fitting lights and speakers etc. means that it just isn't worth modifying old tools, and new ones have to be designed. The problem with most moulding tools is that metal off is easy, but metal on can be a big problem, thus it is easier to cut new metal. Just consider the cries of derision if the class 158 was re-released without lights and sound options.....

Back in c1995-7 I modelled the Midland Main line and could buy Farish HSTs, 47s, 25s, 31s with MK1, 2, 2d coaches all in blue grey as stock items from my local model shop. Some were a bit old but still available. Try doing that now...

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3 minutes ago, fezza said:

Back in c1995-7 I modelled the Midland Main line and could buy Farish HSTs, 47s, 25s, 31s with MK1, 2, 2d coaches all in blue grey as stock items from my local model shop. Some were a bit old but still available. Try doing that now...

 

May be, but we live in a world where the bean-counters dicatate that if it sits on a shelf for longer than 6 months, you shouldn't be stocking it!

 

The fact is that we now have batch production where the livery/decoration must be different with every release, and if a new fangled feature has been introduced by the competition, it will probably have to be added too. Thus grab it while you can and build up a collection over time. It is a long-term hobby, not a sprint...

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41 minutes ago, fezza said:

Back in c1995-7 I modelled the Midland Main line and could buy Farish HSTs, 47s, 25s, 31s with MK1, 2, 2d coaches all in blue grey as stock items from my local model shop. Some were a bit old but still available. Try doing that now...

What, the Midland Main line without any 45's !!

Although to be fair, you do not specify what year, but with 25's I must be in the ball park.

 

As has been mentioned, this game is all about accumulation over a number of years, although that timeframe is ever increasing and we still await that elusive sealed beam class 45.

 

Scott

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8 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Those coach ranges were not available in the 'distant' past - I certainly remember them being introduced. They haven't always been available nor all suddenly became available. Plus most of those ranges have been superseded at a later date with better quality versions.

 

And of course you do have a choice when pre-ordering - whether to order or not, or which of the ones (usually several liveries are produced at the same time) and how many, or whether you spend the money on other manufacturers models.

 

The argument is pointless and unreasonable in stipulating a specific modelling period, the type of shop the products can be purchased from and when you can buy them. However, they have produced models for those lines/period but some people will have missed the boat by not pre-ordering or purchasing at the time and will have to wait for the next batch. 

 

Saying they don't produce a particular range for a particular line, for a particular period and equate that to not offering choice and not having a large range is pointless. You cannot expect Farish (as one manufacturer) to produce ranges to satisfy every modellers particular wants, and have them continually available all the time. There are other manufacturers who do and will help fulfil those wants.

 

 

 

 

Thirty years ago - the dates I mentioned - is a full generation ago. Also the full body versions of all the Mk1s to Mk4 became available within about 5 years.  I don't remember Farish/Bachmann improving the mouldings on either the Mk3s or Mk4s - so no improvements in half the types.

 

Excluding niche stuff like the prototype HST limiting availability of mainstream models to pre-ordering through a very uneven batch process is not giving good choice nor customer experience. Blue/Gray Mk1 were ubiquitous to the vast majority of the GB network for 25 years it is not pointless or unreasonable to have a selection of models available most of the time.  Not only is Farish not producing a range to satisfy every modeller, it has a range/production schedule that is satisfying almost no modellers in N.

 

The models are much better, and I am nor recommending flooding the market, but even with my eclectic modelling eras I have been tempted by GF only three times in the last 6 months.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Davexoc said:

 

You can't please everyone and you may have to wait a long time to amass a representative collection from multiple manufactureres. It is not a new phenonmenon, in fact I don't think you can realistically buy off the peg for many lines even during the BR period. A quick look at the outer suburban lines comes up with the following omissions;

GWML - no class 117s, 119s or 121 bubble car trailers

MML - no class 127s or 317s

WCML - no class 81-5, 310s or 304s or 501s

ECML - no class 105s

GEML - no emus or class 105s

SR lines - most emus and all thumpers missing

Birmingham area - no class 81-85, 116s, 304, 310, 312 or 323s

 

I have been collecting now for well over 15 years, and there are still items I would like for the 1970-90 period, so Rule 1 will be used for certain workings.

 

With regards to slow progress in re-releases, it could be down to the latest demands on quality and fidelity, where fitting lights and speakers etc. means that it just isn't worth modifying old tools, and new ones have to be designed. The problem with most moulding tools is that metal off is easy, but metal on can be a big problem, thus it is easier to cut new metal. Just consider the cries of derision if the class 158 was re-released without lights and sound options.....

 

 That's a very London centric list. If you are comparing N with OO then both have similar gaps. I terms of Fraish, if actually available, the combination of 101/108, Mk1, Mk2a and Mk2f with various banger blue and sectoristion locos and suitable wagons will cover the majority of the non-electrified network from west of Salisbury, through northern England, the north east, to Scotland from the beginning of TOPs to the early 1990's 

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8 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

 That's a very London centric list. If you are comparing N with OO then both have similar gaps. I terms of Fraish, if actually available, the combination of 101/108, Mk1, Mk2a and Mk2f with various banger blue and sectoristion locos and suitable wagons will cover the majority of the non-electrified network from west of Salisbury, through northern England, the north east, to Scotland from the beginning of TOPs to the early 1990's 

The way that all manufactures use limited runs of stock would make it hard to create. Particularly if you wanted to buy all the stock new today. Manufactures with slow reruns makes this even harder.  

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10 hours ago, Scott B said:

What, the Midland Main line without any 45's !!

Although to be fair, you do not specify what year, but with 25's I must be in the ball park.

 

As has been mentioned, this game is all about accumulation over a number of years, although that timeframe is ever increasing and we still await that elusive sealed beam class 45.

 

Scott

 

I think it was supposed to be about 1985 when I did most of my youthful bashing. A 101 was also in the mix although that variant wasn't that common then. I don't think a peak was available and there weren't that many around by 1985 - I eventually got the Langley (?) kit.

 

Yes I understand the batch production - something that might help the trade, but not the customer and modeller...

Edited by fezza
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I am not wondering why this is being discussed in the Spring 2021 thread when we have had the Summer and Autumn announcements since. The N gauge announcements in Summer and Autumn 2021 did not merit their own topic. That speaks volumes.

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11 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

 That's a very London centric list. If you are comparing N with OO then both have similar gaps. I terms of Fraish, if actually available, the combination of 101/108, Mk1, Mk2a and Mk2f with various banger blue and sectoristion locos and suitable wagons will cover the majority of the non-electrified network from west of Salisbury, through northern England, the north east, to Scotland from the beginning of TOPs to the early 1990's 

I have found Farish's list of models very useful for a Northwest based layout to the west of Manchester or the Cumbrian coast in the 70s/80s.

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Updated release dates from the Bachmann website:

Sep/Oct
5/7/8 planked wagons X11

 

Oct/Nov
LMS inspection saloons X3
TTA X3
LMS brake vans X4
EFE Rail JIA X12

 

Dec/Jan
150 X4
MK1 BG X4
BR ventilated vans X3
BR insulated vans X3
LNER ventilated vans X3

 

Jan/Feb
101 X3
MK2A X2
Coach packs X2
MR brake vans X3

 

Feb/Mar
319 X3
JPA X2

 

Mar/Apr
08 X2
BR 20T brake vans X3

 

Apr/May
37 X7

 

May/Jun
MK1 suburbans X5
LMS full brakes X2
24T hopper wagons X3
Conflat wagons X6

Edited by Paul.Uni
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No sign of the announced and "Awaiting" 5MT, 4F, J39 or Fairburn in that timescale then? 

 

I find that far more disappointing that the Autumn "announcement" to be honest. Only the 5MT is having any tooling mods, the rest will come off existing tooling. It means no doubt that each will go through yet another price increase next January time, still without a delivery date even in the six months following. 

 

I don't think even Bachmann can put a positive spin on this, it simply does not bode well, in spite of the popular liveries of the 8F (BR late, BR early and LMS) being out of stock very quickly at Barwell following release and there clearly being strong demand for steam locos, it looks like there may be no more steam following the N Class for at least another 12 months.

 

Roy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Roy L S
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On 01/08/2021 at 14:17, fezza said:

I've never found that steam locos run as well as diesels in N. Maybe it's my rubbish tracklaying but I think it's a lot harder for manufacturers to produce steam locos with good slow speed running n N.

My Queen Elizabeth 4-6-2 runs very well now that she's been serviced/adjusted by Bachmann. She possibly runs a bit too well. I did a speed trial a couple of weeks ago and she is slightly faster than my class 43. Since that makes her the fastest locomotive I have I think she's not entirely prototypical. Whether it's just her or that's the way Farish build 'em I don't know :)

 

But she's also fine at slow speed so maybe that's the answer. Buy em, then send 'em off to be fixed :-/

 

There's only two parts of my layout she doesn't like:

 

One is the entrance to my #1 sidings of each yard. That's because they are accessed by two Setrack turnouts back to back which I believe constitutes a first radius curve longer than she is. Being Setrack means that all my turnouts are first radius but she can handle them one at a time at high or low speed.

 

The other is a bodgy track join. When I built the layout I needed about 50mm of track between a curve and a turnout. Unfortunately I screwed up and one rail was too short. Also being that length meant it was hard to get a smooth transition from the curve to the slightly offset turnout. In the end I had to bodgebuild the gap up with solder. She seems okay reversing over it but going forward her front bogey climbs the rails.

Edited by AndrueC
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2 hours ago, Roy L S said:

No sign of the announced and "Awaiting" 5MT, 4F, J39 or Fairburn in that timescale then? 

 

I find that far more disappointing that the Autumn "announcement" to be honest. Only the 5MT is having any tooling mods, the rest will come off existing tooling. It means no doubt that each will go through yet another price increase next January time, still without a delivery date even in the six months following.

 

What we don't know is whether any of those others are actually being upgraded at this moment. It could be that over the course of the next six months they get announced at the Winter 2021 and Spring 2022 events, and then no doubt they'll be moans that it blows someones budget!

 

Can't see Bachmann winning with either 3 monthly updates, or annual claims with longer lead times. One way it appears that nothing is going on, the other it is taking too long to bring to market. Damned if they do, damned if they don't....

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15 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

 

What we don't know is whether any of those others are actually being upgraded at this moment. It could be that over the course of the next six months they get announced at the Winter 2021 and Spring 2022 events, and then no doubt they'll be moans that it blows someones budget!

 

Can't see Bachmann winning with either 3 monthly updates, or annual claims with longer lead times. One way it appears that nothing is going on, the other it is taking too long to bring to market. Damned if they do, damned if they don't....

That's not the way it works as I understand it. The locos I mention above form part of the announcements that pre-date the transition to quarterly, and as items are delivered from this old list, in the end there will eventually be quarterly announcements only and none of these left to do. Now, I will probably have retired by the time the transition is completed (I jest not!).

 

It is Bachmann's business how they do things, but I would simply observe (as others have said) that the lack of knowledge of future products will make it harder: -

 

1) for retailers to gauge demand or budget themselves.

2) Harder to gauge overall level of demand for a product.

3) Yes, harder for individuals with smaller modelling budgets to put money aside for new models.

 

To be fair it is the way Farish used to do it years ago (no pre-announcement) but in those days the models were designed and made in the UK, and the supply chain was much shorter and models less complex.

 

Anyway, it is what it is, I would be happy if just one of the four "announced" locos arrives sooner, and given it's relative simplicity plus the fact that there has only been one production run so far the 4F would be a solid "all rounder" but it ain't going to happen.....

 

Roy

 

 

 

 

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Apologies if it’s been asked before but on the Bachmann/Farish website if a product is marked ‘awaiting’ does that mean it is imminent?  i.e. will arrive sooner than something that is marked as Jan/Feb.  Or does it mean that product does not yet have a release date?

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