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Graham Farish Spring 2021 new announcements


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3 hours ago, fezza said:

 

As I said in my post, things are improving but we are not there yet. The only current Dmu available is an XC 170. There are no Emus as far as I'm aware? Some of the promised stock is very limited edition or pre-order too which makes it tricky to find unless you are in the know. I initially missed the Kato announcement of the 80x series and I follow n gauge news fairly closely. 

 

There is certainly a much wider variety of 00 stock and often the important 'glamourous' stuff arrives in 00 first - see Pendolinos, 80x etc. 

 

I'm not knocking n gauge but I can understand the frustration of people who want to model the contemporary scene and have long waits for RTR. It is never going to be a scratch builder's scale. Even repaint are much harder. 

 

Let's hope 2021 does indeed bring some breakthrough modern items. 

Virtually all models are batch produced, which I can see can be frustrating. You have to keep an eye on what's out there and pounce, or you'll miss it. I can see if you're inspired to take up modelling only to find you can't walk into a shop and buy stuff would be a pain. But this is the same in OO as well. 

 

Unashamedly looking at WCML models, as that's what I know best - a quick look at Rails of Sheffield/Kernow/Hattons shows the Farish XC and London Midland 170s in stock, and no corresponding OO gauge one. You can't buy either Dapol or Hornby Pendolinos, you can order a Revolution one for delivery later this year. You can't get any 350s in either scale any more. There are N gauge 153s (other regions), but not Hornby ones. Dapol Voyagers are due next quarter in N, Farish at some indeterminate point in the future. Nothing in OO. I can see that the market being bigger probably means that stuff comes up second hand more often, but even so.

 

Like I say, I get the frustration, but it doesn't seem to me that OO gauge is some panacea where the shelves are brimming with stock.

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4 hours ago, Davexoc said:

 

Going to 00 from N is OK if you have the space to run 36 wagon MGR trains and full length HSTs. Much more practical in N...

 

 

 

Not everyone wants to run 36 wagon MGRs or full length HSTs. Nor any of the soulless vinyl clad eyesores that traipse up and down the rather boringly sterilised and rationalised network nowdays. Thats just my opinion mind you. ;)

 

00 is a different kettle of fish when you have no intention of running huge trains. When your chosen prototype stretched to maybe 4 coaches or a certain 3 car DMU which isn't made in N (but a lot of people want to see done!) the layout doesn't require buckets of space. Besides, the space needed for a full sized N Gauge MGR working is surprisingly large...A train nigh on 8ft long doesn't look good on a small layout to my eye. I did have an MGR on my old home layout once upon a time, back when I had a bit less restraint and bought all sorts on a whimsy up into BR Blue. I limited it to 22 wagons, as otherwise it looked ridiculous chasing itself around on that 8ft6 layout. Which is also why I try to exercise some restraint and limit train lengths to half of the visible side of the club layout.

 

A big point to consider is that scale length main line trains of that magnitude are becoming prohibitive regardless of how suitable the scale is for such application. I don't know many modellers who could or would stump up the several hundred in one hit for a full rake of HAA hoppers. Plus the Class 56/58 which you can't buy at present unless you go secondhand, or £130 odd for a class 60 on top. The sensible approach would be to buy the train over a period of time. However, there is no guarantee that by the time you've bought say the locomotive plus 10 hoppers and saved enough for the next 10 that you will still be able to buy the rest of the train. Then there is the big problem which arises...you have a layout big enough for a full rake of HAAs? Where is the opposite empty/loaded working? Its a slippery slope...been there! The less said about my preferred poison of 50 wagon long steam era freights the better...just imagine the cost of the 60 wagons I tested the new 8F with if bought today! Not quite as practical as it at first sounds anymore, being brutally realistic.

 

Getting back on topic; this announcement does little to tempt me to expand the Bournville fleet. Maybe the next one will have that elusive ex-LMS CK...no? *sigh*

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13 hours ago, Zunnan said:

Then there is the big problem which arises...you have a layout big enough for a full rake of HAAs? Where is the opposite empty/loaded working? 


That’s easy. My plan, and I’ve done a few already, is to fix small magnets under removable loads and “unload” the wagons in the fiddle yard.
On the wider issue in this thread I’ve never understood why someone would choose to model an area/era for which few RTR models or kits are available unless they were prepared to do a lot of scratch-building or kit-bashing. 

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16 hours ago, jdbsg65 said:

Does anyone know why the revised class 47 with next18 and sound has been revised back to be 6pin dcc?

 

In the Spring 2020 edition of the Bachmann Times the statement was:

 

Quote

The proposed sound fitted versions of the forthcoming Class 47/7 models have been omitted from the combined volume as engineering resources are not currently available to progress the numerous modifications required to the existing Class 47 components to accommodate this feature. In doing so further delays to the progress of the much-requested Class 47/7s have been prevented and this model now enters the tool room. 

 

In the most recent Bachmann times the 47/7 is listed as livery samples have been received or are awaited along with the Class 319. 

 

Tom.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:


On the wider issue in this thread I’ve never understood why someone would choose to model an area/era for which few RTR models or kits are available unless they were prepared to do a lot of scratch-building or kit-bashing. 

 

And, of course, people do (scratch-build and kit-bash) as ably demonstrated by Dorsetmike earlier in the thread. I guess many choose an area/era because it has connection with them and means something. I wouldn't select an era/area simply based on what was available RTR - I wouldn't really consider that 'modeling', think it was settling on second or third best choice, and availability of RTR can be very fickle and change quickly.

 

 

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Does the hive mind have any information on the GF JPA cement wagons (la farge livery)and an anticipated delivery date? I see on the webpage it states awaiting, however its said that close on a year, just wondering if i've got that long to wait again until i see the pre-orders i've made.

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There has always been a fairly large proportion of people wanting to model contemporary railways, whether or not RTR was available. See comments of Freezer in RM in about 1963... The trouble is N is not really a scratch builder's scale. 

 

My frustration is that locos are produced but not the relevant hauled stock. The 68  has a great following and there is a great Dapol model, but where is the correct modern coaching stock at the time of release? Mine have to put up with blue/grey Mk2ds. You get the odd book set for some items but they sell out quickly. 

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12 minutes ago, Ilambie said:

Does the hive mind have any information on the GF JPA cement wagons (la farge livery)and an anticipated delivery date? I see on the webpage it states awaiting, however its said that close on a year, just wondering if i've got that long to wait again until i see the pre-orders i've made.

You are unlikely to get more than 3 months notice of the arrival date. If there is currently there is no date, they are very likely to be more than 3 months away. 

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34 minutes ago, TomE said:

 

In the Spring 2020 edition of the Bachmann Times the statement was:

 

 

In the most recent Bachmann times the 47/7 is listed as livery samples have been received or are awaited along with the Class 319. 

 

Tom.  

 

Interesting - so that puts the 47 presumably now at the back of the queue for a chassis upgrade to Next 18.

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53 minutes ago, fezza said:

 The trouble is N is not really a scratch builder's scale. 

 

My frustration is that locos are produced but not the relevant hauled stock. The 68  has a great following and there is a great Dapol model, but where is the correct modern coaching stock at the time of release? Mine have to put up with blue/grey Mk2ds. You get the odd book set for some items but they sell out quickly. 

 

Most standard BR coaching stock is/has been or will be available soon. njee20 gave a good overview of what is due shortly earlier in the thread. And, AFAIA, Mk1s, 2s and 3s are available (and in a more upgraded form from the dated originals) and Mk4s were once produced by Farish. Mk5s are due from Revolution. Farish, Revolution and Dapol have/are producing relatively modern air braked freight stock and there are kit ranges from NGS, Chivers, etc. 

 

Of course things sell out - that's the nature of batch production so it is wise to get in quick or even pre-order. There is a lot due soon or in development. A couple of things not already mentioned are the NGS Hunslet shunter (and they're working on the next RTR - a Ferrywagon) and Rapido's co-bo, as well as Revolution's class 123 and re-runs of Pendos (and their class 92s have not long become available), Farish's class 319 and Sonic's gwr steamer (or has that arrived?). 

 

N gauge may not be a scratch-builders scale (although 2mm adherents seem to manage fine) but it is still quite possible to bash and upgrade. I recall improving Poole Mk1s with Ultima etched underframe/truss rods, Mk2s with new more accurate underframes and TPM etched connecting doors and rubbing plates, and even scratch building freight stock. As well as bashing SR/BR EMUs from commercial bits.

 

 

Edited by grahame
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47 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

And, of course, people do (scratch-build and kit-bash) as ably demonstrated by Dorsetmike earlier in the thread. I guess many choose an area/era because it has connection with them and means something. I wouldn't select an era/area simply based on what was available RTR - I wouldn't really consider that 'modeling', think it was settling on second or third best choice, and availability of RTR can be very fickle and change quickly.

 

 

 

Here I agree with Grahame. It may be harder to model a more obscure region or era because of lack of RTR models being available, but I too would doubt it would change what most modellers would choose. I think generally there are sufficient RTR models to adequately cover most of the four regions of BR from Nationalisation right up to post TOPS, but of course such is the nature of batch production that availability at any given time is another matter. 

 

Admittedly some areas like the more vintage Southern EMUs is somewhat  neglected and I would have thought something like a 2EPB in N might work given it's relative longevity, and it being a self-contained train, but there are 3D printed kits of some from Ajay Models I believe.

 

Then in a similar vein there is the lack of any RTR LNER tank loco, quite glaring really but there are only a few that would even be considered as a RTR model I accept. So, in this respect again, it is worth looking at places like Shapeways to see what is available - there are some very nice prints. Here is just one example of just what can be achieved - completed for me by Steve Dacosta from one of his own 3D prints (Atso-Cad) it uses a slightly modified Farish N Class chassis plus 3D printed rear truck. Steve doesn't take commissions and this a model that I am lucky to have. The point of including it here is that it shows just what can be done, and with a bit of research about what is available, some creativity and some good old fashioned modelling there is scope to go some way beyond relying on RTR offerings.

 

Roy

 

 

 

 

20210208_104705 (2).jpg

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Did somebody mention EMUs?  Here's an N-Train Class 317/1 with Electra vinyls and TPM bogies (available from B&H Enterprises). Admittedly not as detailed as modern RTR but I believe a good way of replicating the less commercial prototypes.

 

 

317 DTS.jpg

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1 hour ago, Kris said:

You are unlikely to get more than 3 months notice of the arrival date. If there is currently there is no date, they are very likely to be more than 3 months away. 

The 3 month 'rule' only applies to models announced in the quarterly announcements since 2020. Even then there are exceptions (N gauge EFE Rail JIA wagons announced Nov 2020, currently due May/Jun 2021).

 

For models announced in 2019 or earlier the release dates are updated on the Bachmann website as and when. The Bachmann website currently lists the following GF models as due after Jun/Jul:

  • LMS Brake Van - Aug/Sep
  • Various Planked Wagons - Sep/Oct
  • BR Class 150 - Oct/Nov

The models due up until May/Jun are listed on the previous page https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/161945-graham-farish-spring-2021-new-announcements/&do=findComment&comment=4309702

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Yes, the Electra graphics are a great way of refreshing old stock when you do it properly. The problem is that modern RTR is so good that few people can modify to an equivalent standard and so homemade stock can look rather inferior. 

 

I'll admit I can't scratch build in this scale, even though I've scratchbuilt stock in 009. Complex modern paint jobs make it hard too. You could repaint locos into BR blue with the tail off a dead ferret - it is much harder today...

 

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3 hours ago, fezza said:

My frustration is that locos are produced but not the relevant hauled stock. The 68  has a great following and there is a great Dapol model, but where is the correct modern coaching stock at the time of release?

 

Which is exactly the same situation as you have in OO Gauge - the Dapol model's been out for a couple of years but the matching Mk5a are still some way off (although probably due before the N Gauge ones). When the coaches do arrive it's highly likely that to buy a matching loco you'll need to search eBay.

 

15 hours ago, Zunnan said:

The sensible approach would be to buy the train over a period of time. However, there is no guarantee that by the time you've bought say the locomotive plus 10 hoppers and saved enough for the next 10 that you will still be able to buy the rest of the train.

Again, the same applies in OO Gauge. Turn the clock back 20 years and you could find a OO Gauge HAA in ever model shop - it's pre-order only at the moment (although you do have a choice of three suppliers: Hornby, Cavalex and Accurascale. N only has Peco and Farish).

 

OO Gauge has the same issues with batch production as N Gauge does with models coming in and out of stock. Having a larger market size they get models that have yet to appear in N - 2-HAP & classes 117 & 105 for example.

 

Personally I don't feel OO has enough to attract me away from N Gauge. Yes it would be nice to have a wider range of kits, wheels, gear boxes and a correctly shaped class 142 but it's more than possible to recreate a real scene. You just might have a little less choice when/where depending on your approach to Rule 1!

 

Steven B.

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Many say that there is plenty of standard coaching stock (Mk1, Mk2, etc) available which is true in that they are made, it's just they are not physically available other than for what seems like a few weeks after initial release, then its take your chances on Ebay or wait two or more years for another batch.

 

Witness the Mk2f aircons.  Gone in a matter of weeks (days for the TSO) which like the Mk1's are bread and butter items.  It is the standard items that need constant re-running and not endless releases of catering vehicles most only ever need one of in a ratio of five to ten standard vehicles.

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2 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Many say that there is plenty of standard coaching stock (Mk1, Mk2, etc) available which is true in that they are made, it's just they are not physically available other than for what seems like a few weeks after initial release, then its take your chances on Ebay or wait two or more years for another batch.

 

Witness the Mk2f aircons.  Gone in a matter of weeks (days for the TSO) which like the Mk1's are bread and butter items.  It is the standard items that need constant re-running and not endless releases of catering vehicles most only ever need one of in a ratio of five to ten standard vehicles.

Yes why do they produce so few TSOs when it pretty obvious you need at least three or four times more of these than brake or catering coaches? Is batch production really so inflexible that it can't cope with differential demand 

 

There is also the question of liveries - debranded Virgin, Anglia or Drs Mk2s would be very welcome for contemporary and recent loco hauled trains. 

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4 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

...the Mk2f aircons.  Gone in a matter of weeks (days for the TSO) which like the Mk1's are bread and butter items.  It is the standard items that need constant re-running and not endless releases of catering vehicles most only ever need one of in a ratio of five to ten standard vehicles.

One wholeheartedly agrees.

 

Whilst OO may suffer from the same batch production issues as N, the second-hand market does not - Punch in Maroon Mk1 OO and you'll get plenty of hits and plenty of variety in terms of coach classification.  Then do the same for N and see the difference

 

Best

 

Scott.

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7 minutes ago, fezza said:

Yes why do they produce so few TSOs when it pretty obvious you need at least three or four times more of these than brake or catering coaches? Is batch production really so inflexible that it can't cope with differential demand 

I have to say, my experience is not quite the same (although I agree with regards catering stock).  My rakes for Glasgow Buchanan Street daytime services require similar numbers of BSKs as SK/SO (rakes taken from BR marshalling documents and photographic evidence):

 

BCK    2
BG    9
BSK    40
CK    24
FK    7
FO    1
RMB    6
RU    2
RUO    2
SK    38
SO    6

 

Best

 

Scott.
 

Edited by scottystitch
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31 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Many say that there is plenty of standard coaching stock (Mk1, Mk2, etc) available which is true in that they are made, it's just they are not physically available other than for what seems like a few weeks after initial release, then its take your chances on Ebay or wait two or more years for another batch.

 

 

Items selling out quickly is a consequence of batch production. The manufacturers would like their production sold quickly to rapidly turnover costs and income, but they don't always get quantities or even livery selection quite right. And, of course, it changes demand and purchase behaviour in that people are aware that there is a finite number produced and when it gone, it's gone and it's often not re-available for a long time, if ever. However, it's often the same with OO/4mm and is not the sole preserve of modern stock.

 

But knowing that it makes sense to pre-order items you especially want or at least to keep an eye out to purchase as soon as each batch delivery arrives rather than waiting, hoping stock will hang around on retailers shelves or trying to pick up items second-hand. The world is changing and I can't see it going back to when there were fewer product choices but there was plenty of stock in shops for casual purchasers. I guess we need to adapt our purchase habits.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Western Aviator said:

On the wider issue in this thread I’ve never understood why someone would choose to model an area/era for which few RTR models or kits are available unless they were prepared to do a lot of scratch-building or kit-bashing. 

 

Sometimes something as simple as 'just to be different'.

 

From my own perspective, my decision to move to 00 for my home layout over N was driven by the availability of stock for what I want to achieve. I've done the ex-Midland Railway Southern end of the Birmingham Cross City line in N with the club. I want to do the LNWR built Northern end, which is where I grew up. Completely different stock list, so even with the Bournville stock to hand, it was a start from scratch deal.

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5 hours ago, grahame said:

The world is changing and I can't see it going back to when there were fewer product choices but there was plenty of stock in shops for casual purchasers. I guess we need to adapt our purchase habits.

 

 

 

 

The difficulty is that if you make it hard for the casual buyer they won't buy at all. Plenty of rather arrogant entrepreneurs have got into trouble assuming they can change consumer behaviour for their own convenience - it is a much safer strategy to make a product that is in demand and make it easy for people to buy it. After all if you don't do that, sooner or later others will...

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1 hour ago, fezza said:

 

The difficulty is that if you make it hard for the casual buyer they won't buy at all. 

 

Maybe, but it's not harder, just different - like a whole load of other commercial and retail transactions, such as banks no longer issuing cheque guarantee cards, the growth of new on-line mail ordering facilities direct from manufacturers and giant out of town warehouses like Amazon, the rise of credit and debit cards and the decline of cash, and so on. Things have changed over the years. 

 

Somehow I very much doubt that someone will open a retail store holding lots of slow moving stock but not allowing pre-ordering and mail orders, or only accepting cash and cheques to casual visitors, and be a successful competitor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by grahame
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