Photos of partially removed pointwork?

[Carl]

Hi all,

 

I'm wondering if anyone has any photos of cases where points have been partially removed from a in-service track.

 

I have vague memories of having seen this, where the switch rail has been partially removed, and the crossing removed and replaced by straight track, but the sleepers haven't been replaced and branch is basically still in situ.  Or something like that.  I might have dreamt it.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks,

Carl.

[Kris]

I don't have photos but have seen what you are describing. I have seen photos both with the crossing removed and without it removed. 

[micknich2003]

Here's a typical example.

[Rivercider]

I think we have had a thread on this subject a while back, as I seem to recall finding a photo or two,

but can't think of a search term to find it again.

 

cheers

 

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Carl said:

Hi all,

 

I'm wondering if anyone has any photos of cases where points have been partially removed from a in-service track.

 

I have vague memories of having seen this, where the switch rail has been partially removed, and the crossing removed and replaced by straight track, but the sleepers haven't been replaced and branch is basically still in situ.  Or something like that.  I might have dreamt it.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks,

Carl.

 

This can happen more often than you think - and its not just a practice associated with closed lines!

 

Procedures exist on Network Rail such that if the rails through the tips of points or the crossing area (think the 'Frog' in model railway terms) set of points have a defect and (1) that defect is such it cannot be guaranteed that it will to not cause the rail to fail catastrophically under a train or (2) the speed restriction which would have to imposed to mitigate aforementioned risk is so great (e.g. 10mph on a 110mph section of track) then the flawed rail can be removed and replace with a bit of ordinary rail until such time as a new rail of the correct type can be sourced and fitted.

 

When this 'plain lining' as the procedure is known takes place then the special rail chairs used through points must be replaced with ordinary ones, while the S&T will need to disconnect the point operating mechanism and apply temporary connecting links to the circuitry so the Interlocking is fooled into thinking the points are locked and detected in the desired position. Needless all fuses for the operating circuits plus detection for the opposite side will need to be removed and all diagrams updated accordingly.

 

These 'plain lining' measure can stay in use for just a couple of weeks if a spare set of rails to the correct geometry can be located within the UK, but if a fresh set need to be manufactured or train operators are able to work round the problem with minimal impact to the service then it can be up to 6 months before the ordinary rail is removed and the points put back into service.

[iands]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

This can happen more often than you think - and its not just a practice associated with closed lines!

 

Procedures exist on Network Rail such that if the rails through the tips of points or the crossing area (think the 'Frog' in model railway terms) set of points have a defect and (1) that defect is such it cannot be guaranteed that it will to not cause the rail to fail catastrophically under a train or (2) the speed restriction which would have to imposed to mitigate aforementioned risk is so great (e.g. 10mph on a 110mph section of track) then the flawed rail can be removed and replace with a bit of ordinary rail until such time as a new rail of the correct type can be sourced and fitted.

 

When this 'plain lining' as the procedure is known takes place then the special rail chairs used through points must be replaced with ordinary ones, while the S&T will need to disconnect the point operating mechanism and apply temporary connecting links to the circuitry so the Interlocking is fooled into thinking the points are locked and detected in the desired position. Needless all fuses for the operating circuits plus detection for the opposite side will need to be removed and all diagrams updated accordingly.

 

These 'plain lining' measure can stay in use for just a couple of weeks if a spare set of rails to the correct geometry can be located within the UK, but if a fresh set need to be manufactured or train operators are able to work round the problem with minimal impact to the service then it can be up to 6 months before the ordinary rail is removed and the points put back into service.

I recall there are one or two examples of what Phil describes in "Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day thread" (around Tyne Yard).

[Dagworth]

48 minutes ago, Rivercider said:

I think we have had a thread on this subject a while back, as I seem to recall finding a photo or two,

but can't think of a search term to find it again.

 

cheers

 

 

[Carl]

Thanks so much, that's exactly what I was after.  The thread Dagworth linked to is great, and thanks Phil for explaining why it might happen on fairly mainline settings.

[keefer]

3 hours ago, iands said:

I recall there are one or two examples of what Phil describes in "Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day thread" (around Tyne Yard).

You beat me to it!

I remember a wee discussion about one example on Dave F's thread but couldn't remember where it was (and what page out of 776 it was on!)

Another, slightly different couple of examples have featured.

Remains of a switch retained to act as a trap point, at Consett:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-each-day/&do=findComment&comment=4264457

 

And Waterworks Crossing at York, formerly two lines. One line retained and most of the other removed but the crossings remained (this was also in another thread somewhere):

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-each-day/&do=findComment&comment=42

 

[Wheatley]

This was Huddersfield Junction,  Penistone after the Woodhead closed. As well as the redundant points on the right the Manchester bound lines leading off lower right were still in as far as Penistone Goods but disused. The facing points were secured with clips padlocks and fishplates, and were still detected, it was not unknown for the signalman (me, but it's not my photo) to clear a fault by knocking seven bells out of the point ends to jolt whatever it was back into contact. In the distance the formation snakes across from the up main onto the former Up Goods / Up Barnsley alignment (top left pic)

https://twitter.com/WoodheadRoute/status/1249793418039091200?s=09

 

And here's the 'before' pic and a long after one:

https://twitter.com/WoodheadRoute/status/1158752784788930560?s=09

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Wheatley

[johndon]

South Pelaw Junction in 1971 (photo Bill Jamieson)

 

[Carl]

I was watching some YouTube vids this evening and have just come across this - a partially removed point in precisely the junction I am modelling - Heaton Norris Junction.

 

Much as Phil mentioned, this was a temporary repair, and it’s on the WCML - or I am 99% sure it was temporary, a I’ve not seen any other pictures of it during my research.  The video was from a couple of years ago.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Carl

[melmerby]

Will this do?

 

Droitwich 2015

 

By 2018 the rail was back

Edited March 2, 2021 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Droitwich 27/6/2018 (no street view, just a 3D)

 

Rail is back

[Carl]

Thanks.  I wonder if I can summon the courage to actually model it right in the middle of the mainline!

 

My compromise is probably going to be modelling a couple of completely disconnected points in a mode out of the way area, with the branch still in situ - but that is because of a lack of space and needing A6 or B7 points for them, and I think they will look wrong alongside C10 and E15 on the rest of the layout.  Having them disconnected helps hide the shortness of them.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Carl

[Johndc120]

We did it on Shwt for one of the old points. Crossing plain lined, the switch and closure rail removes plus the old stock rail. Makes for a nice interesting section 

 

[Carl]

7 minutes ago, Johndc120 said:

We did it on Shwt for one of the old points. Crossing plain lined, the switch and closure rail removes plus the old stock rail. Makes for a nice interesting section.

 

Oh, I do like that.

[melmerby]

There is a bit of prototype interest with the Up Goods Loop (LH side) at Droitwich, still officially in use, although it has shrubs growing through it!

Probably a very long time since any wheels went along it.

[ikcdab]

3 hours ago, Johndc120 said:

We did it on Shwt for one of the old points. Crossing plain lined, the switch and closure rail removes plus the old stock rail. Makes for a nice interesting section 

 

If you do this, don't forget that the switch rail you have left behind will be firmly fixed. Typically with a point clip or a fishplate bolted to the sleeper. The accident at Kingham was caused by this very situation. The derailment occurred because the open switch blade of a pair of points, which was being prepared for removal on the following Sunday, had been left unsecured and thus free to move under the vibration of the passing train. Very sad.

[Johndc120]

4 hours ago, ikcdab said:

If you do this, don't forget that the switch rail you have left behind will be firmly fixed. Typically with a point clip or a fishplate bolted to the sleeper. The accident at Kingham was caused by this very situation. The derailment occurred because the open switch blade of a pair of points, which was being prepared for removal on the following Sunday, had been left unsecured and thus free to move under the vibration of the passing train. Very sad.

you can’t see it on the first pic but yes they are spiked, you can just about see it on this point

 

[Phil Bullock]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

Droitwich 27/6/2018 (no street view, just a 3D)

 

Rail is back

Was watching operations at Bromsgrove a couple of evenings ago on line . Bank engine finished for evening and was booked to run to Stourbridge Jct ... via Kings Norton, Washeood Heath, Sutton Park, Bescot and Soho. How much quicker to drop down via Stoke Works to Droitwuch, over this crossing and arrive via Kidderminster! 

[stovepipe]

Here's another example at Tebay in 1967.

 

 

The photo is being discussed here

 

[Carl]

Thanks Stovepipe, I did see that yesterday actually but didn’t think to add it to this thread!  I found it interesting because of the early concrete sleepers too.