0940 Newquay to Glasgow 1990

[125_driver]

If anyone has access to a national rail timetable for 1990 to 1991, im trying to ascertain if the 0940 Newquay to Glasgow ran via the WCML or ECML and if it went to Centeal or Queen st??? I know it was booked a HST. Thanks in advance...

Just to add, I think it may have been a summer Saturday only service.......

Edited February 7, 2021 by 125_driver

[mikejames]

hi

I have the time table (summer 90) (may also have 91? as i have several about then)

It goes up the east coast

Derby - Sheffield-Newcastle edinburgh glasgow (Queen st)

(I think it avoided Bham new s)

If you want, I can photocopy a couple of pages and send them

if you send me your email address. no cost.

there seem to be other intercity holiday maker including an 8.10

ex Penzance to glasgow central

also a penzance york

 

regards

mike james

 

 

 

[125_driver]

1 minute ago, mikejames said:

hi

I have the time table (summer 90) (may also have 91? as i have several about then)

It goes up the east coast

Derby - Sheffield-Newcastle edinburgh glasgow (Queen st)

(I think it avoided Bham new s)

If you want, I can photocopy a couple of pages and send them

if you send me your email address. no cost.

there seem to be other intercity holiday maker including an 8.10

ex Penzance to glasgow central

also a penzance york

 

regards

mike james

 

 

 

Hi mike thanks very much for your informative post. You have confirmed the pertinent facts, that it went ECML to Queen st Not Central, and very interesting to note it didn't stop New st! Can't imagine that nowadays! 

 

Thanks again!

[SP Steve]

The service only ran to Queen Street in 1989 and 1990 before being cut back to terminate at Edinburgh in 1991.

 

The attached image is for the 1989 version which ran as the 09:50 Newquay - Glasgow Queen Street but the stopping pattern remained the same for 1990. Incidentally the  Monday - Friday service ran as the "Cornishman" to Queen Street.

 

Services to Queen Street from the West of England had a precedent in that in 1986 BR ran a M-F Taunton - Inverness service (Paignton - Inverness on Saturday) that went via Cumbernauld into Queen Street as part of a drive to open up tourist services to the highlands that did away with transferring from Central to Queen Street.

 

This service had an Edinburgh portion removed at Carstairs before continuing north where it was stopped outside of Eastfield depot for a second loco to be attached to the rear of the train to draw the train into Queen Street. Here it was uncoupled and the train continued north with the original train loco at its head.

 

Incidentally by-passing Birmingham was quite common for a number of the Summer Saturday 'Holidaymaker' workings.

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by SP Steve
Additional details added

[The Pilotman]

Surely it can’t have run from Plymouth to Derby non-stop; there must have been one stop for a crew change at least. Would anyone have signed that entire section of route, and would ASLEF have allowed it (it’s almost 260 miles and around three and a half hours running time)?

[Zomboid]

It might have stopped for a crew change (Bristol?), but no reason to make it a passenger call.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Some northbound services had crew changes at the relief cabin at Landor Street, just by Saltley loco shed.

[mikejames]

sorry

In my earlier post I didn't list all the calls because I was indicating the route.

I think all the calls are

Newquay Par Liskard Plymouth Bristol TM Derby Sheffield Doncaster York

Darlington Durham  Newcastle Berwick Edinburgh Falkirk Glasgow.

 

Its a bit tricky as you have to visit several tables.

mike james

 

[The Pilotman]

2 hours ago, mikejames said:

sorry

In my earlier post I didn't list all the calls because I was indicating the route.

I think all the calls are

Newquay Par Liskard Plymouth Bristol TM Derby Sheffield Doncaster York

Darlington Durham  Newcastle Berwick Edinburgh Falkirk Glasgow.

 

Its a bit tricky as you have to visit several tables.

mike james

 

Mike, I was referring to the window sticker in the post by @SP Steve which shows no stops between Plymouth and Derby. 

[Andrew Young]

4 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:

Mike, I was referring to the window sticker in the post by @SP Steve which shows no stops between Plymouth and Derby. 

 

Some of my older XC colleagues (most now retired) spoke of crew changes taking place in the centre road at Temple Meads on services that wouldn’t otherwise stop there.

 

Andrew

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, Andrew Young said:

Some of my older XC colleagues (most now retired) spoke of crew changes taking place in the centre road at Temple Meads on services that wouldn’t otherwise stop there.

Going back a long time, around the end of steam I had numerous outings to places beyond Bristol. I can remember trains from New Street usually changed engines and crews at Temple Meads. Trains from Snow Hill came into Temple Meads if booked to stop for passengers there but if not went round the houses to St Philips Marsh shed to change , emerging beyond Temple Meads towards Bedminster.

We used to go to Saltley to avoid the Saturday morning crowd at New Street during the holiday week. The train we normally caught was Walsall to Kingswear, but one day there was a relief in front of it from Leicester not stopping at New Street. A Saltley crew took over at the station then we headed off up to Camp Hill to take water, down Lickey, non-stop through Cheltenham and avoiding Gloucester. 

The Summer Saturday iteration of The Pines had no booked passenger stops between Stockport and Cheltenham IIRC, running via Walsall (loco change), Sutton Park and Camp Hill.

[The Stationmaster]

On 07/02/2021 at 16:54, Western Aviator said:

Surely it can’t have run from Plymouth to Derby non-stop; there must have been one stop for a crew change at least. Would anyone have signed that entire section of route, and would ASLEF have allowed it (it’s almost 260 miles and around three and a half hours running time)?

The only likely depot to have known the road all the way through was Bath Road and I wonder even then if any work they might have had west of Exeter would be in the same link ar s Birmingham (and by then I'm pretty sure that Bath Road men dod not work beyond Birmingham).  So there would be crew relief at Bristol TM and somewhere in the Birmingham area (the train presumably ran via Camp Hill to keep clear of New St hence relief at Landor St?).

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

On 08/02/2021 at 17:45, The Stationmaster said:

The only likely depot to have known the road all the way through was Bath Road and I wonder even then if any work they might have had west of Exeter would be in the same link ar s Birmingham (and by then I'm pretty sure that Bath Road men dod not work beyond Birmingham).  So there would be crew relief at Bristol TM and somewhere in the Birmingham area (the train presumably ran via Camp Hill to keep clear of New St hence relief at Landor St?).

I'm not saying it didn't have relief at Landor St, but Bath Road drivers and guards signed through to Derby and had several turns which took them there, so I'd guess a change at Bristol and then again at Derby rather than Saltley, mostly because the guards had by then been separated and InterCity trains used Senior Conductors.

 

In later eras super long distance trains would have been possible without stopping to change guards, but would still have needed driver changes. In 1998 Preston guards signed through to Penzance and lodged overnight there, and Manchester guards signed through to Brighton also lodging. 

 

[Andrew Young]

On 08/02/2021 at 17:45, The Stationmaster said:

The only likely depot to have known the road all the way through was Bath Road and I wonder even then if any work they might have had west of Exeter would be in the same link ar s Birmingham (and by then I'm pretty sure that Bath Road men dod not work beyond Birmingham).  So there would be crew relief at Bristol TM and somewhere in the Birmingham area (the train presumably ran via Camp Hill to keep clear of New St hence relief at Landor St?).

 

Suspect it had traincrew relief at Bristol TM and possibly but not necessarily at Landor Street. Derby drivers signed (and still do) the route to Bristol (I’m driving there next Thursday). Bristol XC drivers through to Derby until Arriva took over the XC franchise and pruned route knowledge.

 

Andrew

[The Stationmaster]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:01, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I'm not saying it didn't have relief at Landor St, but Bath Road drivers and guards signed through to Derby and had several turns which took them there, so I'd guess a change at Bristol and then again at Derby rather than Saltley, mostly because the guards had by then been separated and InterCity trains used Senior Conductors.

 

In later eras super long distance trains would have been possible without stopping to change guards, but would still have needed driver changes. In 1998 Preston guards signed through to Penzance and lodged overnight there, and Manchester guards signed through to Brighton also lodging. 

 

The longer distance lodge turns were introduced when Virgin had the Cross Countrty franchise - they didn't exist in later BR days where traincrew lodging turns generally disappeared following dieselisation/electrification. 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

3 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The longer distance lodge turns were introduced when Virgin had the Cross Countrty franchise - they didn't exist in later BR days where traincrew lodging turns generally disappeared following dieselisation/electrification. 

Absolutely, they never existed (in the modern era) before the May '98 timetable change. They had Bristol drivers and Preston "Train Managers" lodged at Penzance so as to save on taxis to/from Plymouth after hiring in local people from other TOCs was done away with. It didn't last massively long, they had gone back to using Plymouth crews with an 80 mile taxi ride by 2001, and there was more than one occasion when the Virgin HST was trapped in Penzance for half the day because one of the lodging crews went sick overnight and there was no plan B!