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IVATT 2MT


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Does anybody currently have a Hornby Ivatt 2-6-0 for sale please,

suddenly the market has virtually dried up and those that are available are silly money,

must be a runner please, and reasonable price, i ran out of money before Christmas

so couldnt get one then, please help if you can holbycityrailway@gmail.com

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2 hours ago, Holby Railway said:

im using Hornby track and in told there a gauge issues with Bachman locos running on Hornby track ?

 

I think someone is mistaken.

 

Bachmann are fully compatible with Hornby, Peco and other RTR makes of 00/H0 track.

 

Try and find a bargain or second hand Bachmann version. The Hornby Ivatt 2-6-0 is a terrible model, I had one years ago.

 

 

Jason

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Current production RTR 00 from all companies is built to a set of common standards with regard to gauge, wheel profile, flangeways for points and crossings, radii of fixed curve track sections, track joining, and couplings, and this has been the case for many years.  So Bachmann, Hornby,  Dapol, Heljan, Accurascale, and earlier products such as Mainline, Replica, Airfix, Lima, etc., will all run happily on each others’ tracks and couple to each other.  Peco’s code 100 Setrack and ‘Streamline’ flexible track is compatible as well.  
 

A Bachmann Ivatt 2MT will run on Hornby track. There are no gauge or running issues unless you are using very old Triang or Hornby Dublo track.  Even with these, the gauge is fine and there is no problem running on plain track, but you will have trouble at the points because of the very wide flangeways designed for the cruder wheels and grossly overscale flanges of those days. 

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2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Current production RTR 00 from all companies is built to a set of common standards with regard to gauge, wheel profile, flangeways for points and crossings, radii of fixed curve track sections, track joining, and couplings, and this has been the case for many years.  So Bachmann, Hornby,  Dapol, Heljan, Accurascale, and earlier products such as Mainline, Replica, Airfix, Lima, etc., will all run happily on each others’ tracks and couple to each other.  Peco’s code 100 Setrack and ‘Streamline’ flexible track is compatible as well.  
 

A Bachmann Ivatt 2MT will run on Hornby track. There are no gauge or running issues unless you are using very old Triang or Hornby Dublo track.  Even with these, the gauge is fine and there is no problem running on plain track, but you will have trouble at the points because of the very wide flangeways designed for the cruder wheels and grossly overscale flanges of those days. 

Not 100% true.

 

In the early 2000s Hornby changed the back to back of their Chinese made models, to make them wider.

 

Why, so that Hornby models could properly run through Peco's code 75 points. Of course they didn't mention the word Peco, but that was the reason.

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Did not know that, Kevin.  My point as far as explaining the situation to Holby Railway stands, I contend, though; all RTR 00 stock is to all intents and purposes compatible with all other RTR 00 stock, and will run on all RTR track and Peco Streamline, and will couple to any other stock.  The point about couplings is not strictly 100% true either, as though they are all tension locks which conform to a specification there are different forms of mountings, bar and hook profiles, materials, and physical size.  Most recent stock has couplings to NEM standard (and these differ between manufacturers as well), but some Hornby Railroad as well as second hand items may have very different looking couplings. 

 

Appearance apart, the principal requirement of a tension lock coupling is that it allows the vehicles to separate sufficiently to avoid buffer locking on such curves as the item is specified to be capable of use on, and that the bar is of a standard height so that the buffers are kept apart when the stock is being propelled; it is in fact a buffer as well as a coupling and the buffers on the model are cosmetic detail.

 

Holby Railway has been clearly misinformed (one wonders where he got this misinformation from; if it was a model shop I strongly recommend he doesn't use it any more) and it is right that we re-assure him and put him on the 'right' path.  It is a very long time since inter-company incompatibility of wheel/track and coupling standards was any sort of issue.  He is not restricted to Hornby products on his layout because he has Hornby track.  The Ivatt is a matter of his choice of course, but I think it is fair to point out to him that the Bachmann Ivatt 2MT is a) a better model in every respect than the crude and out of scale Hornby version, which is b) very poorly detailed and toy-like in comparison (boiler skirts, stamped motion, no brake detail, moulded handrails and smokebox dart, and many other shortcomings), and that c) the Bachmann runs more smoothly as well, and will probably be easier to source second hand. 

 

Hornby have a new BR standard 2MT 2-6-0, 78xxxx, which is effectively the same loco with a few detail differences, in the pipeline which promises to be very good indeed, and Holby may wish to hang on for that.

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11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Current production RTR 00 from all companies is built to a set of common standards with regard to gauge, wheel profile, flangeways for points and crossings, radii of fixed curve track sections, track joining, and couplings, and this has been the case for many years.  So Bachmann, Hornby,  Dapol, Heljan, Accurascale, and earlier products such as Mainline, Replica, Airfix, Lima, etc., will all run happily on each others’ tracks and couple to each other.  


Unfortunately UK model railways are not made to a common standard at all. There isn’t a Uk industry standard manufacturers have ‘signed up to’, and neither to they consistently use NMRA standards which could work in many areas. 
You only have to look at couplings to find there’s no standard within the same manufacturer for coupling height, let alone between other companies stock. 
F856C734-7017-4285-9F69-F0851A2DA57C.png.a5779f3bb61b6e3a2814d6448f43050d.png

I too would suggest looking for a Bachmann version, (see pic) a far better model and more livery varieties to choose from.

Edited by PMP
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12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Bachmann Ivatt 2MTs were £60 recently. I bought two....

 

Plenty of places have reasonably priced 4MTs as well. You've just got to search, loads of bargains at the moment. 

 

 

Jason

 

Just not many of the 4MTs with the tablet catcher tender and single chimney about.

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Thanks Guys

i just got a Bachman 2mt & a 4mt plus a Hornby 2mt

The Hornby 2mt is for conversion i wont say what to yet as it seems likely i will have the only one, once its displayed others may decide to copy it and thats fine, i just want the first one, i already had a Hornby 2mt (46400) and last year got another (46521) the idea behind another 46521 is a friend of mine is willing to convert that into a standard 2mt as 78034

(rumour has it the new one will be £180)

 

Stock is very much a mixture, i have some wagons dating from late 50's early 60's

some other wagons date from around 1969, coaches i have Pullmans dating from the 70's, a set of LMS coaches from the 80's and a set of LMS Suburban coaches dating from the 90's, 

Locos i have 3 Triang 0-4-0T from around 1969, a 101 DMU from the 60's, then the rest of my stuff varies through 70's - 90's, i have picked up a considerable amount  last year (pre-owned) TBH im not sure if they are 80's 90's or 00's

ALL track is brand new still boxed purchased last November, at present the line is not built, this is something that is a work in hand, the boards are stored having been taked down after i lost interest due to break in back in 1991 / 1992, but they have been stored well in temperature controlled conditions (in the house) all being well building should start at the end of March...

 

it was another modeller that said there are flange issues with things,

Peco is a make i had endless trouble with before and converted all track to Hornby, i had a Wrenn Class 20, but this i no end of trouble with, when it wanted to work, it was full power or nothing, and if it stayed on through points once there was no guarantee it would next time, and so it was sacrifcied in December and SOLD as i had no use for it, its put me off Wrenn for life

 

everything is a mixture of Kitmaster, Airfix, Mainline, Lima, Dapol. Triang/Hornby, Triang, Hornby & Bachman - this is the current situation here at Holby City Railway, with around 60 locos in the fleet........

 

Thanks to all of you for helpful advice, im truly looking forward to getting back into it now in my late 50's

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You may find problems with the 50s and 60s Triang stock on the pointwork of your new track, but everything else should be fine.  The flangeways, the channels that prevent the stock from moving sideways at the gap at the vee, are too narrow and shallow for the coarser flanges of this sort of stock; older Trix and Hornby Dublo may give similar problems.  The answer is new wheels, which need new bearings, which usually means new chassis.  The older Triang stuff has open ended axleboxes and the wheels are loose on the axles; you drill out the holes to insert bearings from the inside for new wheesets and make axlebox covers to hide the bearings.

 

Good luck with the conversion of the Hornby Ivatt 2MT into whatever you are going to convert it into.  I will be interested to see this when it's finished, partly because I like a mystery as much as the next man, and partly because I like seeing peoples' conversions, they often prompt me into considering possibilites that had not previously occurred to me and I like the 'out of the box' thinking they often reveal.

 

An issue with Triang/Triang Hornby items of that era is that the models sit about 2mm too high at the buffers, a hangover from the original Triang range where extra space between the bottom of the body moulding of the Black Princess and the top of the front bogie wheels was needed to allow the loco to negotiate the bottom of the slopes dictated by the range's gradient piers without fouling and derailing.  It doesn't look too bad with a whole train of similar stock but as soon as you mix with stock from any other manufacturer, which has the correct ride height, the difference is obvious and looks awful! 

 

This can be rectified by taking metal off the top of the chassis block so that the body sits at the correct height but is a lot of work and difficult without basic workshop facilities (at least a workbench with a vice); if your proposed conversion can use driving wheels that are 4mm smaller in diameter than the Ivatt's you will not need to do this as the whole chassis will sit down a further 2mm on the axles and do the job for you!

 

I have had no trouble with Peco track, and use Streamline on my layout, with setrack points and one Hornby curved point at the entrance to my fiddle yard/storage sidings.  I cannot advise Wrenn, though they ran well enough; items from the old Hornby Dublo range with tension lock couplers fitted, but to my mind very overpriced and really aimed IMHO at the collector/retro market.  Your baseboards should be fine, but check that they have not warped upwards at the edges before using them, as it will be difficult to lay track smoothly over the 'peaks' of these joins. 

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3 hours ago, spikey said:

Ref the Bachmann 2MT, the thing that's always put me off it is the yawning chasm between cab and tender.  Is it much of a faff closing up the gap as much as layout minimum radius allows?

No. Either replace with a new drawbar with the holes close together, or reposition the tender 'peg' a bit further back. Beware of the tender cab roof 'lip' catching the cab roof proper though, you might have to doctor the front corners a bit. 

 

Mine goes round r3 curves (just) with a 4mm gap. 

Edited by Wheatley
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5 hours ago, spikey said:

Ref the Bachmann 2MT, the thing that's always put me off it is the yawning chasm between cab and tender.  Is it much of a faff closing up the gap as much as layout minimum radius allows?

The Bachmann 2MT comes with a replacement short coupling, which gives a significant reduction in the gap. I’ve done my two, one with Bachmanns short link and one with my own.
C0F59AA5-9110-443F-B033-9C5BC083EB97.jpeg.adaaa14d0f43f54e22192986827c9b3b.jpeg

This is my version of the close coupling. You can also improve the appearance by removing the outer wiring cover for the tender connection too

Edited by PMP
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