Conwy Valley Railway Museum, Betws-y-Coed

[009 micro modeller]

I’m not sure whether this should be in Preservation instead, but it probably fits in well here too.

 

The Conwy Valley museum is a site that I’ve enjoyed visiting several times in the past and hope to again at some point. Does anyone know if the 15” gauge tram is currently able to operate? It doesn’t seem to be on their updated website and I understand the overhead line sustained some storm damage a couple of years ago and was waiting to be repaired. I’m told there was a vague plan at one point to occasionally run the 15” gauge model of Britannia (usually kept in the museum) on the tram track but I’m not sure how true this is - the tramway and museum building are on opposite sides of the 7 1/4” gauge line and I think on the few occasions it has been steamed this has been on temporary track laid out from the museum.

 

I’d also be interested to know a bit more about the history of the site (after being taken over for the museum - obviously it’s the former goods yard etc). I think it’s been under the current ownership since the 1980s after being initially set up in the 70s; it’s listed as a private company and seemed fairly commercial when I visited previously (not meant particularly as a criticism) but did it ever have a volunteer/support organisation? Also, did it ever have anything to do with the nearby (now closed) museum at Tal-y-Cafn?

 

Finally, there’s some interesting standard gauge stock on site: http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/results.asp

 

Are there any plans for further restoration of any of these vehicles? While some are in use as office and storage space, and to house the café and model railway, it would be a shame if the others deteriorated. In particular, the LNER-design GUV is apparently a unique survivor: http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=944

Am I right in thinking that some (all?) of the current standard gauge rolling stock actually arrived by rail before the connection to the goods yard was severed and cannot now be removed (e.g. for off-site conservation/restoration) or swapped around within the site anyway, especially after the subsequent landscaping and building of the miniature railway? It doesn’t really look as though any of the standard gauge stock could have arrived at the site by road. The carriage survey intriguingly shows them all being purchased by the museum within a very narrow date range in the early 70s (1971-74, mostly 1973) which would seem to support this theory.

Edited February 8, 2021 by 009 micro modeller

[Steamport Southport]

ISTR it was set up around the camping coach and goods shed. When it started it was more like a holiday home thing with rolling stock you could stay in and I think it was still rail connected. No models or miniature. I think they all appeared in the 1980s with the shop.

 

I have a vague memory of some old bloke who was always saying he's buying engines to restore. He was an artist type and I think one of the vans was full of artwork and railway memorabilia on display that was opened if you asked. I was only a kid at the time but he came over as being a bit eccentric, but not short of a bob or two.

 

This was the mid 1970s and it was a regular stop off when going to other places. I think you had to pay something extortionate like 5p to look around. Tongue firmly in cheek.

 

The only real engine was the narrow gauge one. Sgt Murphy.

 

https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Sgt_Murphy

 

 

Wikipedia is suggesting the owner was called Alan Platt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conwy_Valley_Railway_Museum

 

 

Jason

Edited February 8, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Wikipedia is suggesting the owner was called Alan Platt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conwy_Valley_Railway_Museum

 

And according to this it’s now owned by Colin Cartwright who took it over and expanded it in the 1980s, which would make sense: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/spotlight-colin-cartwright-conwy-valley-2672271.amp

 

I’d forgotten about Sgt Murphy being here (presumably outside) and hadn’t realised it had run on the Ffestiniog. I’m not sure how the 18” gauge van (I think ex-Woolwich Arsenal) currently in the museum got there.

 

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

When it started it was more like a holiday home thing with rolling stock you could stay in

 

Supposedly the Pullman car now at the site was originally a camping coach there and was purchased on-site for the museum: http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=2206

It doesn’t say anything about it being a camping coach after purchase but I wouldn’t be surprised. I also don’t know what to make of the comments on the carriage survey that it is ‘now in use as a residence.’

[BernardTPM]

Here's a photo I took on my Brownie 127 of the Pullman back in 1972. Somewhere I've got the guide book too.

 

[dagrizz]

I visited in Sep 79 and took this one photo inside the museum.

 

 

Graham

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Here's a photo I took on my Brownie 127 of the Pullman back in 1972. Somewhere I've got the guide book too.

 

 

Is that the same Pullman that’s currently there? It looks as though it’s in the same place but I can’t tell if the track it’s on is connected to anything.

[BernardTPM]

It's certainly the one that was a camping coach as someone else who stayed there in the late '60s had a photo of it. I'm also pretty sure it is the same one shown on their website, though their picture is from the platform side.

[tender]

It wasn't only the overhead line on the 15" gauge that was damaged in the storm. A substantial tree also fell on the engine shed at the end of the line damaging the contents including the engine.

The line has been in disrepair ever since and would require some substantial restoration and re-ballasting to get running again. Currently, as far as i'm aware, there are no plans to do this.

 

Attached is a list and description of the Standard Gauge stock on the old goods line. As mentioned this line is severed from the mainline and access to the site would make it almost impossible to remove stock by road.

Bar occasional painting of the exterior there is very little maintenance work of the stock.

 

Before COVID the 7-1/4" miniature railway was run every day throughout the year (10:00-4:30) with 2 steam and 2 diesel (petrol) locos on hand for passenger hauling. There were also occasional visiting locos during the summer.

The railway ran for a short period last year (2020) when lockdown restrictions were eased but under the current lockdown the site is closed including the shop, museum and cafe (BR Mk1 SO coach).

 

Betws-y-Coed_Rolling_Stock.pdf

Edited February 8, 2021 by tender
missing word

[009 micro modeller]

8 hours ago, tender said:

It wasn't only the overhead line on the 15" gauge that was damaged in the storm. A substantial tree also fell on the engine shed at the end of the line damaging the contents including the engine.

 

That’s a shame. So the tram itself is also severely damaged? Oddly their old website implied that it was going to be difficult but not impossible to get it going again and I hadn’t realised how serious it was. Although it always seemed that there was less interest in running the tram anyway.

 

8 hours ago, tender said:

As mentioned this line is severed from the mainline and access to the site would make it almost impossible to remove stock by road.

 

I know it’s severed now, but did the stock arrive by rail prior to it being severed?

[tender]

13 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I know it’s severed now, but did the stock arrive by rail prior to it being severed?

I think so, although it was before my time living in the area so can't be absolutely sure.

[southern42]

Some photos I took after Storm Chiara, 9 February 2020, when a tree fell across the Tram Line leading to the Tram Shed.

 

The uprooted tree across the Tram Line.

29/02/2020

 

The top end of the tree

29/02/2020

 

The tree chopped up, the Tram Shed visible at the end of the site, and the 7-1/4" railway track in the foreground.

07/03/2020

 

Another view of the tree across the Tram Line showing a section of cable brought down on the left.

07/03/2020

 

Polly

[009 micro modeller]

6 minutes ago, southern42 said:

The tree chopped up, the Tram Shed visible at the end of the site, and the 7-1/4" railway track in the foreground.

 

In that photo the tram shed itself looks OK - or am I missing something?

 

Also, is that one of the 15” gauge permanent way wagons (they do have them and I assume that’s what they’re for) in the distance? Previously I’ve only seen these either on an isolated bit of track in the station area or off the track at the other end of the tramway (both presumably necessary as there are no points).

Edited February 9, 2021 by 009 micro modeller

[Mike Bellamy]

 

Thanks for the photos Polly - and I know you have many more . . . . . 

 

I had alerted Polly to this topic as I knew that she and her husband were volunteers at the Museum and before lockdown they could be found driving locos on the 7-1/4 line.

 

My connection (along with other friends from Derby) is that we knew Colin from his 7-1/4 line in Walsall Arboretum and when he bought the Museum we went to stay for the weekend, sleeping in the coach and spent our time painting the footbridge from the station over to the Museum site. We had a BR employee with us as the line had been closed so that ladders could be put up above the track.

 

We were members of the Mickleover (Derby) Model Railway Group and arranged with Colin the loan of two of his locos (Britannia and 9F) to put on display at the Derby Exhibition in the Assembly Rooms - I think we were about on the weight limit for the lift - and we also had an automated model of the line at Walsall using OO locos but with modified toy soldiers sitting astride scratch built coaches. Route setting was by using reed switches for point control and so we just had to uncouple and run around each end - rather a boring layout to operate for the whole weekend !!

.

[southern42]

19 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

In that photo the tram shed itself looks OK - or am I missing something?

 

Also, is that one of the 15” gauge permanent way wagons (they do have them and I assume that’s what they’re for) in the distance? Previously I’ve only seen these either on an isolated bit of track in the station area or off the track at the other end of the tramway (both presumably necessary as there are no points).

 

It is a 15" gauge wagon, the only one I know of, though I know nothing of its origins, and is immobilised for safety reasons.  You can also see the shed is damaged.

 

Zoomed in.

 

Polly

[EddieB]

I visited in August 1978, but only took photos of the "Stove R", the matchboarded brake carriage and what I recorded as a former LNWR brake van - which I cannot find listed (see below - the lettering says "car park closes 530").

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by EddieB
Replaced photo.

[009 micro modeller]

20 minutes ago, southern42 said:

You can also see the shed is damaged.

 

And the tram inside it? Although I’ve been up to there on the tramway I’m not sure what the larger shed behind it is for.

 

19 minutes ago, EddieB said:

I visited in August 1978, but only took photos of the "Stove R", the matchboarded brake carriage and what I recorded as a former LNWR brake van - which I cannot find listed (see below - the lettering says "car park closes 530").

 

 

I did see the pictures of this on another thread, which mentioned that it was later scrapped - I wonder if this was because of the difficulty of moving it once the rest of the site had been developed. There is currently a very heavily modified GWR brake van on site.

 

On the idea of the current standard gauge stock having come in by rail, this would mostly make sense but surely it would then be slightly odd for the Pullman (supposedly purchased on-site) to not be at one end of the standard gauge line.

 

20 minutes ago, southern42 said:

It is a 15" gauge wagon, the only one I know of

 

I seem to remember one or two others but can’t be absolutely sure. On the subject of the tram, apparently it was added to provide a ride with better disabled access than the 7 1/4” line but does anyone know why overhead wire was chosen?

Edited February 9, 2021 by 009 micro modeller

[seraphim]

"Sergeant Murphy" was owned by Colin Pealling when on display; this was long before the loco was restored (as an 062) and operated on the Ffestiniog. Colin P lived in Walsall, and maybe that's how he knew Colin Cartwright. The loco was on display inside, where the 15" Britannia is now. I don't recall the Woolwich van last time I went - I wonder if that's still around or what happened to it?

 

I'm pretty sure that the SG stock arrived by rail, but cannot recall where the photo is showing it!

[009 micro modeller]

17 minutes ago, seraphim said:

I don't recall the Woolwich van last time I went - I wonder if that's still around or what happened to it?

 

This one: http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=7599

 

Possibly not Woolwich but is 18” gauge. I understand the Britannia was only built shortly before it arrived and is the 15” gauge equivalent of a finescale model - finer tolerances, wheel standards etc.?

[Norton961]

The ex LNWR brake van was destroyed by fire, I understand this was deliberate by the site owners!

 

David

[southern42]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

And the tram inside it? Although I’ve been up to there on the tramway I’m not sure what the larger shed behind it is for.

 

 

I did see the pictures of this on another thread, which mentioned that it was later scrapped - I wonder if this was because of the difficulty of moving it once the rest of the site had been developed. There is currently a very heavily modified GWR brake van on site.

 

On the idea of the current standard gauge stock having come in by rail, this would mostly make sense but surely it would then be slightly odd for the Pullman (supposedly purchased on-site) to not be at one end of the standard gauge line.

 

 

I seem to remember one or two others but can’t be absolutely sure. On the subject of the tram, apparently it was added to provide a ride with better disabled access than the 7 1/4” line but does anyone know why overhead wire was chosen?

 

The damaged tram is still in the shed, at least it was this time last year!  Gee! It only seems like yesterday!

 

There is a wooden fence behind the Tram Shed.  The fence marks the site boundary at the northernmost end.  Over the fence is the neighbouring caravan site - the 'larger shed' you refer to is on the caravan site.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by southern42

[009 micro modeller]

31 minutes ago, southern42 said:

Over the fence is the neighbouring caravan site - the 'larger shed' you refer to is on the caravan site.

 

OK, that makes sense. Somehow when I was there a few years ago I couldn’t see it from the tram, but obviously realised the caravan site was there. I always found it odd that the tram shed is so far away from the rest of the buildings.

[Steamport Southport]

56 minutes ago, Norton961 said:

The ex LNWR brake van was destroyed by fire, I understand this was deliberate by the site owners!

 

David

 

My sympathy about the storm damage disappeared quickly....

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Norton961 said:

The ex LNWR brake van was destroyed by fire, I understand this was deliberate by the site owners!

 

OK but... why? It seems to be in pretty good condition in that photo (although since it’s wooden I could be completely wrong, if it had rotted for example).

[Merfyn Jones]

Reference earlier to the nearby Tal y Cafn site. There was no connection.

Back in the early 70s we (a collection of railway minded preservationists) rented the goods shed and part of the yard at Llanrwst from B R. We had there a few wagons and a couple of small diesel locos along with a few road vehicles all owned by a selection of the members. However after a few years B R made the rent impossible for our small group but offered us the goods yard at Tal y Cafn for a lot less. We moved most items there along with the Local tramway society to share the costs. Some larger items were sold and some donated on loan to other local groups. Eventually people moved there seprate ways.

We did have a LNWR brake van, and wonder if this went to Bettws ?

[009 micro modeller]

59 minutes ago, Merfyn Jones said:

Reference earlier to the nearby Tal y Cafn site. There was no connection.

 

I didn’t particularly think there was any connection, it’s just the proximity of the two sites and the Southend Pier stock at Tal-y-Cafn plus 15” gauge tram at Betws-y-Coed (making me think there might be someone with an interest in trams/electric railways involved with both) that made me question it.