1960s ballast sidings

[russ p]

In the late 60 were ballast hoppers refilled in local yards or did they go back to quarries for refilling? 

If they were refilled locally what wagons was stone delivered to the p-way yard in and how was it unloaded and reloaded into ballast hopper 

 

Cheers 

Russ

[hmrspaul]

They worked back to the quarries. Virtual quarries are a Railtrack/Network Rail concept. 

 

It is the reason why most ballast hopper wagons were power braked, they ran long distances as block trains in advance of that becoming the normal. For example the LSWR running bogie hoppers from Meldon quarry using a design that developed over the years into the Sealion/Seacow. 

 

Paul

Edited February 9, 2021 by hmrspaul

[russ p]

10 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

They worked back to the quarries. Virtual quarries are a Railtrack/Network Rail concept. 

 

It is the reason why most ballast hopper wagons were power braked, they ran long distances as block trains in advance of that becoming the normal. For example the LSWR running bogie hoppers from Meldon quarry using a design that developed over the years into the Sealion/Seacow. 

 

Paul

 

Thanks Paul 

When I first started on the railway in 83 at tees there was a pile of ballast that was used to fill a local ballast set that went out every morning and was refilled every afternoon a jcb was used

I wasn't sure if this was a method of work which had been used in decades previousl but obviously not.

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

11 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

...... LSWR running bogie hoppers from Meldon quarry using a design that developed over the years into the Sealion/Seacow. 

...... via the Southern's variants ( Walrus in BR-speak ) ........................ not to mention the infamous Whales. ( probably best NOT to mention them - sorry )

[Nearholmer]

The Southern ballast operation was particularly well-developed and slick, building on LSWR practice, and possibly honed to perfection when they did so much re-ballasting to get rid of shingle in the 1930s, but did the same apply to the other railways/regions?

 

Also, there was a small amount of locally-stored ballast "in the system" in the days before mechanised track maintenance, used for things like newly-developed wet-spots until they could be tackled more thoroughly, minor "make up" etc. I presume that was stored at each PWay gang's "hutted encampment", with a bit in the lineside bins that were provided at junctions, but TBH I'm not really sure.

[Fat Controller]

IIRC, the stuff that was kept in ballast bins was much finer than normal ballast. It was shovelled out of Grampus wagons or similar; in my train-spotting days in South-west Wales in the late 1960s/ early 1970s, there would be an occasional working which would be time-tabled, and which also did a spot of tidying-up of material from the lineside.

The first example of stockpiling I can think of was when the deep-reballasting and renewals were being done on the Boat-Train routes via Ashford. In order to deliver the amount of ballast required, a 'virtual quarry' was established at Tonbridge West Yard, fed from Meldon using specially converted air-braked 4-wheel opens.

Incidentally, 'Nearholmer' mentions the 'replacement' of shingle ballast; on the Ashford- Folkestone, there was plenty still in use, covered by a layer of Meldon granite. The renewals team alledgedly even found a pre-Grouping track panel buried in the formation.

[The Stationmaster]

15 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

IIRC, the stuff that was kept in ballast bins was much finer than normal ballast. It was shovelled out of Grampus wagons or similar; in my train-spotting days in South-west Wales in the late 1960s/ early 1970s, there would be an occasional working which would be time-tabled, and which also did a spot of tidying-up of material from the lineside.

 

Agree - the stuff placed in what were known to many on the Western as  'packing bins' was chippings and it was used for measured shovel packing.  One way of doing that is shown at around 23min in the film linked below.  The Western system in use in the 1960s (until replaced by tamping machines) used sighting boards to find and rectify any dips in the track where packing was needed.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjpYcYgaOCI

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by The Stationmaster

[hmrspaul]

This was about the 1960s, and about major work. OK I'm not a railway person, but places like Hitchin in the 1970s did not have a virtual quarry and there was little sign of equipment able to bulk load hopper wagons - or a reason to do so. Having a local supply of some ballast would be necessary for any gang required to do repair work. That wasn't the question. 

 

Paul

 

 

[Ken.W]

Hi Russ,

Up till, I'd say, the early 80s - not sure when it closed, ballast wagons from the Tyneside area ran to Belford quarry for loading

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, Ken.W said:

Hi Russ,

Up till, I'd say, the early 80s - not sure when it closed, ballast wagons from the Tyneside area ran to Belford quarry for loading

They then switched to Hexham, with the ballast being brought in by road.

[russ p]

Anyone know where the stone came from in tees yard?  I think it came in barbell wagons 

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

On 09/02/2021 at 21:51, hmrspaul said:

They worked back to the quarries. Virtual quarries are a Railtrack/Network Rail concept

I remember most ballast on the Birmingham Division coming from Judkins at Nuneaton Abbey Street in the 1960s and 1970s.  It was worked into sidings convenient for the worksite  during the week, wagons being sent back for loading based on the PWay work programme.

The use of Virtual Quarries on the LMR predated Railtrack, the first time I remember one being used on a major scheme was for Crewe Remodelling in 1985 where stone was stockpiled at Crewe South prior to the start of the job.

[phil_sutters]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The Southern ballast operation was particularly well-developed and slick, building on LSWR practice, and possibly honed to perfection when they did so much re-ballasting to get rid of shingle in the 1930s, but did the same apply to the other railways/regions?

 

Also, there was a small amount of locally-stored ballast "in the system" in the days before mechanised track maintenance, used for things like newly-developed wet-spots until they could be tackled more thoroughly, minor "make up" etc. I presume that was stored at each PWay gang's "hutted encampment", with a bit in the lineside bins that were provided at junctions, but TBH I'm not really sure.

It appeared that the Island Line still had shingle ballast in 2013.

 

[johnofwessex]

AFAIK it was the Steam Railway that started using 'quarry' ballast then Island Line followed