Track plan help - opinions welcome

[RobA2345]

Hi everyone.

 

Please can bother you for some feedback on this track plan? Anything that can be improved, things that don't work etc.

I'm attempting a small shunting layout which I envisage being mixed freight terminus with a multi-door warehouse with loading dock in the north east corner. I have a Class 20 and Class 08 in BR Railfreight liveries and I know that it is definitely stretching the believability but I feel my options are very narrow due to UK operations post-beaching not really being conducive to small shunting layouts but this is the only space I have.

I've tested the layout out in TrainPlayer so I know it has operational potential. Its in 4mm scale to I can fit 4 VDA Vans in the loading dock of the warehouse. I have no idea what to do in the south west corner so if anyone would like to chime in with suggestions there that would also be welcome.

Thanks in advance  

[Kris]

What is the purpose of the 2 lower sidings? 

Does the middle siding need to have wagons loaded/unloaded from it? If so there might not be the required space to do this/

[RobA2345]

I figured I'd have the 08 working staying on site so it would move vans once they're unloaded onto these sidings to wait for the long haul train from the fiddle yard on the left entry. The middle siding I planned just for storage but the end siding could potentially unload freight such as construction materials.

[Geep7]

On the face of it, it looks like a great plan, however, i'm unsure whether the warehouse would be placed on the headshunt of the run-round loop, as it would require any wagons to be cleared first, before any train could arrive and the loco run around it's train. The warehouse would more than likely be located on one of the sidings.

[Dungrange]

I agree with @Geep7 that it is unlikely that the warehouse would be placed on the head-shunt of the run round loop.  There would be a home signal to the left of the layout that would control access to the yard (from your fiddle yard).  When that signal is cleared, it would mean that the line ahead was clear as far as the next signal, which would be the red light on the buffer stop at the end of the head-shunt.  That therefore means that you can't really use the loading dock as you probably intend.  I think the only way such an arrangement would be plausible would be if traffic was very infrequent and it was definitely a 'one engine in steam' type layout - ie no class 08 stabled here to do shunting: all shunting would be done by the trip work loco.

 

Sticking with your plan as far as possible, I think I'd bring the main route down the plan a couple of inches, so that you can then fit the run round loop on the top side.  Your warehouse could then be served by a spur off the loop (where you have it at the moment), which would be situated parallel but behind the head-shunt of the run round loop.  The two siding can remain as they are.  What you put in the bottom right corner is up to you, but I'd probably just have a largish industrial building to block the view of the entrance to the fiddle yard.

[RobA2345]

Just what I was looking for thanks for taking the time to look it over. I’ll incorporate the feedback and post an update. 

[The Johnster]

A kickback headshunt off the run around loop or between the 2 lower siding and the loop will enabel you to shunt the two lower sidings with one loco while a train arrives and the other loco runs around in the loop. 

[9C85]

Are you building the track and point work yourself? The 3-way point to your sidings looks 'challenging' ( not that I have ever attempted trackwork).

[9C85]

Further to my earlier post, if you flipped the 3-way point and fed it directly from the lower branch of the left-most point, it will give you extra length in your sidings and (imho) look more aesthetically pleasing and prototypical.

 

[RobA2345]

@The JohnsterI did think about something like that and haven’t ruled it out as such but just conscious of making it too track heavy. I’ll definitely come back to the idea before I commit.

Quote

Edited February 10, 2021 by RobA2345

[RobA2345]

12 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

Are you building the track and point work yourself? The 3-way point to your sidings looks 'challenging' ( not that I have ever attempted trackwork).

I’m going to use the the C&L kit available for EM which I’m hoping will ease the pain a little. I’ve built pointwork in 2mm before so I have some experience that should help.

 

I’ll look into your suggestion of flipping the point. Cheers

Edited February 10, 2021 by RobA2345

[RobA2345]

I do like this actually. 

[RobinofLoxley]

In case you didnt understand Johnsters point he is saying and I agree that a point is required off the bottom most siding giving a siding facing the opposite way. It will balance the layout and is more important than the third right facing siding in fact. Could be split to a loco shed for example.

[9C85]

 

This thread has got me thinking. 

 

I have knocked up a plan hopefully meeting the brief. The thicker line is the arrivals/departure road which will be used by your 20 on a 'Speedlink' type service. 

 

The Goods Out sidings can be either fully or semi enclosed in  a warehouse, or fully exposed. 

 

The siding parallel to the arrivals line could be extended to make a loop, if you have the space. 

 

You asked about doing something with the bottom left corner.  You could have a fuel/powdered goods arrival for the same industry, with perhaps a conveyor/pipeline  leading over the track to the factory. 

 

Tankers would be a good choice to go along with your vans as you wouldn't have to worry about having 'empties' and 'fulls' arriving and departing. 

 

The main thing to note is that the bulk of the track is at an angle to the edge of the baseboard, and ideally it should have a gentle curve, which I think looks more pleasing than having dead straight track bang parallel to the baseboard edge.

 

I will follow this thread with interest.

 

Enjoy the build!

[RobA2345]

@RobinofLoxleyYeah I don't disagree with those suggestions I have a few conflicting opinions I need to consider. I have Lance Mindheim's books where he cautions against filling it all with track and/or structures but as his writings are based on US prototypes where land is not at such a premium (in real life or the railway room).

I know this photo isn't all that inspiring but at least shows kind of what I'm going for.

Appreciate the feedback.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by RobA2345

[RobA2345]

6 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

You asked about doing something with the bottom left corner.  You could have a fuel/powdered goods arrival for the same industry, with perhaps a conveyor/pipeline  leading over the track to the factory. 

 

Tankers would be a good choice to go along with your vans as you wouldn't have to worry about having 'empties' and 'fulls' arriving and departing. 

 

The main thing to note is that the bulk of the track is at an angle to the edge of the baseboard, and ideally it should have a gentle curve, which I think looks more pleasing than having dead straight track bang parallel to the baseboard edge.

 

Great idea about bottom left corner!

I totally agree with the need for some curvature and I would love to include it but when I'm in templot for the full size track plan I'm struggling to fit in it. 4mm on just over 7ft of scenic area is tight. I'll give it another go though because I am concerned about it.

[RobinofLoxley]

Get the concept totally - I ask myself what (railway) operations you will be able to carry out and its usually my priority over aesthetic qualities - you choose your own

[Geep7]

19 hours ago, RobA2345 said:

I do like this actually. 

Yes, I like the look of that. Just one suggestion, if you angle it slightly down at the right-hand end across the boards, so it's not parallel to the baseboard edge. Improves the look of a layout, no end.

[RobA2345]

Thanks @Geep7 here is what I could make work.

 

 

[RobA2345]

I'm well into this build now, currently laying track and have some foamex mockups of the distribution centre etc and currently going okay. I would love to electrify some of the line and could buy the Railfreight Distribution livered Class 90, its something I've never done but since this model is already stretching the bounds of believability I thought it better to ask for feedback. The attached image shows the section that would be electrified with the blue background, so it could go single to double and back to single just before the head shunt. The idea is the Class 90 would bring in the train and exit via the run-around leaving the on site locos to arrange the wagons as this is mainly a shunting layout. Would this idea possibly work? If it would how are the overhead wires terminated? I assume I'd need so me sort of power substation? Whats the minimum footprint for one of these? I could maybe run the head shunt line to the edge of the baseboard to the terminating station would be off scene.

[Dungrange]

This Google Maps link should take you the station at Balloch at the southern end of Loch Lomond.

https://www.google.com/maps/@56.0029099,-4.5835503,3a,37.5y,184.32h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suPNQ4A5pNtuBK_bcd3-mMQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192.  This is the end of one of the electrified passenger lines from Glasgow.

 

It appears that there is just a substantial enough gantry at which the overhead line terminates.  The frame is obviously designed to support the tension in the cable, but power must be supplied elsewhere, so could be off-scene on your layout.

 

As for whether an electrified line is plausible for your scenario, I'm not sure.  I doubt that British Rail would have invested in overhead infrastructure for such a small facility, but I suppose if it's close to a major yard, the length being electrified is short and if trip working to here from the yard could make use of an electric locomotive, then there may have been a case.  It might be getting into Rule 1 territory, but I don't think it's implausible, or at least not any more implausible than having a local shunter - I suspect that all shunting would have been undertaken by the train locomotive.

[DLT]

I would move the siding points back so that they are closer to the loop point, making the sidings as long as possible.  

[33C]

On 11/02/2021 at 15:08, Geep7 said:

Yes, I like the look of that. Just one suggestion, if you angle it slightly down at the right-hand end across the boards, so it's not parallel to the baseboard edge. Improves the look of a layout, no end.

How about a high level line coming in from the left over the outer siding to a staithe (Hornby iron-ore bridge style!) to a) add ops interest and b) fill that corner and c) give more running rail on a shuttle switch? 

[RobA2345]

21 minutes ago, DLT said:

I would move the siding points back so that they are closer to the loop point, making the sidings as long as possible.  

That first RH point furthest left was supposed to be LH but I'd already secured it in place before I noticed the error on my original plan. If it was LH your suggestion would easily work but I can only gain 2-3 inches max as the run up to the 3 way tandem needs room to make an easy curve. I didn't want to take it up as these C&L points are silly expensive and I didn't want to risk destroying it.

[RobA2345]

3 hours ago, Dungrange said:

This Google Maps link should take you the station at Balloch at the southern end of Loch Lomond.

https://www.google.com/maps/@56.0029099,-4.5835503,3a,37.5y,184.32h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suPNQ4A5pNtuBK_bcd3-mMQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192.  This is the end of one of the electrified passenger lines from Glasgow.

 

It appears that there is just a substantial enough gantry at which the overhead line terminates.  The frame is obviously designed to support the tension in the cable, but power must be supplied elsewhere, so could be off-scene on your layout.

 

As for whether an electrified line is plausible for your scenario, I'm not sure.  I doubt that British Rail would have invested in overhead infrastructure for such a small facility, but I suppose if it's close to a major yard, the length being electrified is short and if trip working to here from the yard could make use of an electric locomotive, then there may have been a case.  It might be getting into Rule 1 territory, but I don't think it's implausible, or at least not any more implausible than having a local shunter - I suspect that all shunting would have been undertaken by the train locomotive.

 

I think you're right it would be Rule 1 territory just looking at examples I can't find any, all short industry is diesel served. It might also do a disservice to that poor Class 90 that will work the same 6 feet over and over again  
Shame, lovely models. I might have to wait until I find a space for a 40ft dogbone layout