Preorder email

[Robin Brasher]

In view of the posts in this topic I have cancelled my pre-orders with Hattons for the Hornby LB&SCR and LSWR 4 wheel coaches.  The LSWR coaches are' must have'models for me as I am modelling the Swanage Railway and I do not want to wait two years for a second run to appear like I did with the Maunsell pull push coaches.  I have told Hattons why I have cancelled my pre-order and have reordered with Kernow.  

 

Last year after Hattons sold out of pre-orders for the Rocket set I ordered one from the Swanage Station shop and received it a few weeks later so perhaps we should be supporting our local model shops.

 

I have pre-ordered sets of Hattons Southern and LSWR 4 wheel coaches and I hope that I don't receive a sold out on pre-order note from Hattons for these coaches

[60800]

Echoing others comments, I was watching the website like a hawk on the day and as soon as pre-orders went live I got my full HST and MK4 sets in. There is no way they do not have enough allocation of those to be able to cancel someone who had all their orders sorted within 30 mins of pre-orders going live. You expect first come first serve but from my perspective too this seems to not be the case. 

 

Unless Hattons has something physically in stock it's not even worth bothering. 

 

Cheers,

  60800 

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Just had my order for Evening Star cancelled... Quite disappointed with Hattons' I placed my order just mins after they were listed. I'll be moving all my pre-orders elsewhere.

I hope that’s not a precursor to mine being cancelled as well. As it stands, my order for 2007 and 92220 remain for now. I’m hopi g this doesn’t go much further. 

[zoomer1979]

59 minutes ago, 60800 said:

Echoing others comments, I was watching the website like a hawk on the day and as soon as pre-orders went live I got my full HST and MK4 sets in. There is no way they do not have enough allocation of those to be able to cancel someone who had all their orders sorted within 30 mins of pre-orders going live. You expect first come first serve but from my perspective too this seems to not be the case. 

 

Unless Hattons has something physically in stock it's not even worth bothering. 

 

Cheers,

  60800 

I'm afraid I was ahead of you in time, but I got my Mk4 DVT and HST DVT cancelled on me. I still have the new IC livery 91 and 14-car APT on pre-order so we'll have to see what happens with them! Good luck everyone, that's what it seems to be down to!

Neil.

[LimboBrit]

Has anybody actually had their “Clan” preorder confirmed?

[3rd Rail Exile]

3 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

Has anybody actually had their “Clan” preorder confirmed?

Not sure what you mean by "confirmed" - you get an automatic Order Confirmation email immediately you submit an order, but then its a case of waiting for an email for Order Cancelled / Processed / Delivery Information update.   It seems to be a case of "no news is good news" as far as pre-orders go... 

 

There's nothing to say "you're definitely going to get this" until the "Order Processed" and "Picking List Packed" emails.  

[The Black Hat]

On 10/02/2021 at 15:16, The Stationmaster said:

Probably the not exactly uncommon Hornby problem - unable to meet all retailer pre-orders so they impose rationing which means that potential end customers (as here) suffer. I am of course assuming that Hattons order place with horn matched/exceeded the number of pre-orders they had taken from end customers.

 

Regrettably it is hardly a new occurrence and hattons are not the only retailer who - over the years - have had customers who suffered from Honrby's inability to meet orders.  it would make a lot more sense for Hornby to advise retailers that quantities will be limited when they take the initial orders but maybe they like to have an excess of orders just in case there are any cancellations by retailers. laced by retailers.  

 

And oddly people wonder why some retailers turned to doing direct commissions with factories (and in at least one case I understand it was largely because Hornby's supplies were unreliable and at the same time they were reducing trade discounts).   Hornby regrettably, and to some extent, has only its past history to blame for what one might regard as more mainstream models being taken on as retailer commissions.  And alas they won't get more of what is now a much more diverse cake of suppliers  if they can't  balance supply and demand.

 

That was my thoughts exactly. Hornby for years have often not been able to supply shops with the orders they have put in. I have spoken to a few several years ago where this was the case. Sadly, the market is shifting a lot more to pre-order and Hornby sometimes underestimate the demand of some models, when they turn out to have been very popular choices. So cancellation and disappointment is the outcome. I wouldnt complain about Hattons - they will be just as gutted about the lost sales as you would be to buy it off them. 

[LimboBrit]

4 minutes ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

Not sure what you mean by "confirmed"

I'll re-phrase.......has anybody pre-ordered a "Clan" and NOT had a cancellation notice from Hattons?

[3rd Rail Exile]

1 minute ago, LimboBrit said:

I'll re-phrase.......has anybody pre-ordered a "Clan" and NOT had a cancellation notice from Hattons?

Yeah, ordered R3996 (72009 Clan Stewart) and R3987 (92194) on 5th Jan and not had cancellations yet... 

[LimboBrit]

8 minutes ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

Yeah, ordered R3996 (72009 Clan Stewart) and R3987 (92194) on 5th Jan and not had cancellations yet... 

I ordered on the 5th but not until 22:37. That'll teach me to hesitate. My pre-order for the Flying Scotsman in BR green which was placed in the afternoon still stands. Let's hope it stays that way.

[jonnyuk]

had my whole mk4 pre-order cancelled by hattons yesterday, now ordered with another supplier. i have to say i have only had stuff cancelled by hattons, no other supplier...........

[cessna152towser]

There seems no longer any point in pre-orders.

With Bachmann I waited over 5 years for my Hattons Mk2f RFB and when it finally became available the price was almost twice what had been originally quoted.    With Rails I have now waited 3 years for the Caley 0-6-0 which they commissioned from Bachmann.

Last year I was left disappointed by unfulfilled pre-orders for Hornby, through both Hornby's own website and a retailer.  Luckily I was later able to source the items elsewhere.

So I will no longer pre-order any Bachmann or Hornby.

Before finding this thread, I had already made an exception and pre-ordered the Abellio Scotrail Active Travel 153 from Kernow but I will not be placing any other pre-orders with anyone for items from the 2021 Hornby catalogue, and I won't even buy the Bachmann 2021 catalogue.

If, at a later date, something I would like is readily available in a model shop when I happen to visit, or turns up in a box-shifter's bargain bin, then I may buy.  Otherwise I can do without.

Edited February 12, 2021 by cessna152towser

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

We don't know what the arrangements were between Hattons and Hornby regarding the acceptance of pre-orders.

Or with anybody else Rob.  Retailers I have known in the past ordered in good faith at the appropriate time and had later effectively been told that their order would not be honoured (the stark way of saying that they would not get what they ordered because rationing had been imposed).  So the logical conclusion there was that Hornby had oversold - whether or not that remains the situation or whether or not it is a particular situation with a very large retailer is way beyond our knowledge.  Equally of course we don't know what has happened with other retailers and whether or not they have had their pre-orders reduced and we won't know until somebody on here is affected by it and posts to let others know.

 

Hardly likely to affect me this year as I have very limited interest, if any, in pre-ordering anything from the 2021 Hornby range - plenty of goodies coming from elsewhere to tempt money out my plastic cards.

[Bulleidboy100]

If there is something I really want, I will always order direct from Hornby, despite the higher price I know I will receive it. Until, which will probably never happen,  someone is able to give exact figures and numbers manufactured and how they are then allocated on arrival, it will always be guesswork as to whether a "retailer" has taken pre-orders that exceed their allocation. The new "Hornby Dublo" models are limited to 500 of each - that is not a lot when that allocation has to be split between Hornby and every outlet in the UK. Hattons and a few others do tell you what is in stock when your looking at the relevant sites. I have never had a pre-order cancelled - although MRD did ask me sometime ago whether I still wanted a couple of "elderly" pre-orders.

[Legend]

What would be annoying , though, is if retailers allocations are cut back , but that you can still order direct from Hornby . This is not the much hyped  "we want to support our retailers unlike previous management " message the Lyndon Davies stated when they took over management .   So that's not helping hobby  ,and of course from our point of view you pay full MRP at Hornby direct , but get discount at most retailers . 

[KDG]

On 10/02/2021 at 14:39, Hilux5972 said:

Just received an email from Hattons saying they are unable to fulfill my preorder of Hornbys Grey Streamlined W1 and one of the Clans. Anyone else had a similar email?

Yep me too, for other stuff though

[Ian Hargrave]

To all which I add ....with a touch of well worn cynicism....nothing under the sun is new....is it ?

 
Last August some members were disappointed when their pre ordered Dublo 6231 failed to materialise from their chosen retailer.Much weeping and rending of sackcloth were experienced.

This amongst other acts of ( perceived ) dark deeds led to a legendary spat. A  “D Notice “ was slapped on further discussion and we were quietly informed that there were  “ reasons “ due to an unfortunate chain of events which led to the “ shortfall “ in the supply chain. So was there or was there not a reasonable explanation for what occurred ? One had to assume there was but the whole matter is now lost to the mists of time and no explanation has been forthcoming . On another thread ,Heljan are being taken to task for their customer relations,some of the criticism being quite outspoken and robust indeed.

Any parallels here ....maybe ?

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Adding text

[Ouroborus]

early days i appreciate, but there is nothing in any of these comments about cancellations from other retailers.  So is it Hornby or is it hattons?

[RAF96]

 

Just to add my two pennorth to the thread but my understanding is that as a product is planned pre-orders are invited from both Joe Public via any retailers site including Hornby’s own site and from retailers themselves best guessing how many they may sell.

Such firm bid orders are then submitted by retailers to Hornby each January after that year’s product launch. From these combined figures Hornby decides whether to go ahead with a product run or not. In event a product is seen as a goer then a standard production run of at least 2000 units will be given the go ahead. If pre-orders exceed this then depending upon the algorithm used by Hornby more may be ordered into production or numbers will be limited and thus we see these cancellation orders being sent out.

My policy is if I desperately want a model then I will pre-order on many sites to invoke Hornby towards running that model.

I can then bin any unwanted pre-order offer as it comes in and collect from my preferred retailer. 

I know this is fudging the system but if that is what it takes to break the go/no-go algorithm methodology then so be it.

 

 

[truffy]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

My policy is if I desperately want a model then I will pre-order on many sites to invoke Hornby towards running that model.

I can then bin any unwanted pre-order offer as it comes in and collect from my preferred retailer. 

I know this is fudging the system but if that is what it takes to break the go/no-go algorithm methodology then so be it.

Unless you’re preordering from a hundred retailers or so, I suspect that your tiddy extra orders make square root of buggerall difference to Hornby’s planning. All it will achieve is some degree of inconvenience to those poor saps in the middle. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by truffy

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, Ouroborus said:

early days i appreciate, but there is nothing in any of these comments about cancellations from other retailers.  So is it Hornby or is it hattons?

I’d guess it’s both. With Rails out of the Hornby game then I think Hattons may have become the ‘Halfords’ of model railways in so much as they have become everyone’s default go to online retailer. Hornby need multiple retailers to keep generating interest and can’t afford to give what might equate to almost an entire production run to one outlet. Frustrating for those who have preordered with Hattons I know but plenty of other dealers out their and most items will be available if we care to look a little wider. 

[QuoitsPlayer]

I've had a pre-order for the Mk4 TSOE, Mk4 DVT and the HST surrogate DVT cancelled by Hattons I've re ordered all 3 from Kernow today and the ordered was accepted and went through. I'm sharing this in the hope it helps others looking for the Mk4s.

 

Matt

[APT Fan]

34 minutes ago, QuoitsPlayer said:

I've had a pre-order for the Mk4 TSOE, Mk4 DVT and the HST surrogate DVT cancelled by Hattons I've re ordered all 3 from Kernow today and the ordered was accepted and went through. I'm sharing this in the hope it helps others looking for the Mk4s.

 

Matt

 

Did you place the order online with Kernow or by phone?

Thanks.

[LimboBrit]

2 hours ago, RAF96 said:

If pre-orders exceed this then depending upon the algorithm used by Hornby more may be ordered into production or numbers will be limited and thus we see these cancellation orders being sent out.

I can not think of a reason why Hornby would deliberately limit numbers if indications are that a product is going to be a best seller unless we are talking about a limited edition model. Hornby would be able to spread their development costs over a larger production run and boost profit on the project

[3rd Rail Exile]

8 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

I can not think of a reason why Hornby would deliberately limit numbers if indications are that a product is going to be a best seller unless we are talking about a limited edition model. Hornby would be able to spread their development costs over a larger production run and boost profit on the project

Hornby are probably limited by the length of the production slot(s) they've managed to obtain, and the number of models that can be made in that slot.  I'm sure they'd love to not be letting retailers have fewer models than requested (if, indeed this is what is happening), but maybe they just can't get enough made.  It's what comes of subcontracting your manufacturing - you lose control of it.  The factory has to stop at the end of the slot, and change to making something else for a different customer...