Preorder email

[paftrain]

1 hour ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I hope that wasn't a dig. Yes, I suspect somebody backtracked, unless it was a genuine mistake. I would be interested to find out if it has happened to anybody else.

Yes, I have also received an email from Hattons saying that the previous email was a mistake and my pre-order still stands.

[Legend]

This is all getting pretty ridiculous !

I still dont know where blame lies  but I certainly wont preorder from Hattons and wont pay full price from Hornby either . 

[Black 5 Bear]

20 minutes ago, paftrain said:

Yes, I have also received an email from Hattons saying that the previous email was a mistake and my pre-order still stands.

Just a word of warning, Hattons did the very same thing  to me a few years back with a pre-order on two L/E Britannia's, Earl Haig and Lord Kitchener.

They reinstated the order, only to later cancel once other shops had sold out, claiming Hornby had refused to supply the models.

If you are in any doubt and really want a new release, which is likely to be popular, either order it direct from Hornby or use a smaller, trusted outlet.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[APT Fan]

11 hours ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Ok what is going on? I got an email from Hattons this morning to tell me that the previous email was a mistake and that my Merchant Navy is still on order. 

 

Exactly the same thing happened to me recently with another retailer, with whom I had placed a Bachmann Pre-order. It was explained that the error was down to a problem with the Bachmann system. At the moment I'm inclined to believe the retailer but time will tell whether it will ever turn up at any retailer let alone the one I've chosen. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by APT Fan

[MikeParkin65]

On 01/03/2021 at 17:14, Black 5 Bear said:

Just a word of warning, Hattons did the very same thing  to me a few years back with a pre-order on two L/E Britannia's, Earl Haig and Lord Kitchener.

They reinstated the order, only to later cancel once other shops had sold out, claiming Hornby had refused to supply the models.

 

Interesting re the Earl Haigs. I didnt realise they were a LE but I bought one from the Locomotion Stand at Warley a couple of years ago where they had a a considerable number on offer for £99. I'm not sure if that coincided with the time when Simon Kohler was employed by Locomotion but that stand at Warley has had large amounts of Hornby at sale prices in recent years.  

[Black 5 Bear]

19 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Interesting re the Earl Haigs. I didnt realise they were a LE but I bought one from the Locomotion Stand at Warley a couple of years ago where they had a a considerable number on offer for £99. I'm not sure if that coincided with the time when Simon Kohler was employed by Locomotion but that stand at Warley has had large amounts of Hornby at sale prices in recent years.  

Thanks Mike,

I managed to secure both locos from Fenwick's department store in Newcastle some 12 months later, when they were closing down their model department.

Both were on sale at just over £100, which even then was a bargain.

I think they were originally announced as a limited run of 1000 models to coincide with the commemoration of the 1914 outbreak of WW1.

Not surprisingly, Hornby missed the boat and they didn't come into stock until 2015.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[GNR Dave]

Obviously his choice, but after 4 weeks and 10 pages of posts, I'm surprised Hattons Dave has not responded.

Perhaps the title and placing of the OP in the Hornby section means he is unaware of the thread ?

[D9020 Nimbus]

On 04/03/2021 at 11:52, Black 5 Bear said:

Thanks Mike,

I managed to secure both locos from Fenwick's department store in Newcastle some 12 months later, when they were closing down their model department.

Both were on sale at just over £100, which even then was a bargain.

I think they were originally announced as a limited run of 1000 models to coincide with the commemoration of the 1914 outbreak of WW1.

Not surprisingly, Hornby missed the boat and they didn't come into stock until 2015.

 

Unless this is post-March 2020, Fenwicks model department hasn't closed — it used to be a Hornby concession, but was replaced with a more general area selling both main brands plus Peco. It might have been the closing of the concession that led to the low prices.

[Black 5 Bear]

2 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Unless this is post-March 2020, Fenwicks model department hasn't closed — it used to be a Hornby concession, but was replaced with a more general area selling both main brands plus Peco. It might have been the closing of the concession that led to the low prices.

You can only rely on what the sales staff at the store advise, which at this time was a closure to make way for another department unrelated to modelling.

Furthermore, I don't live anywhere near Newcastle and the entire transaction was done over the phone.

Obviously,from your post I was given false information but does it really matter?

The most important thing for me was sourcing a pair of locomotives, which I thought I'd missed out on at a very reasonable price.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[Pre Grouping fan]

On 25/02/2021 at 22:29, cbrooks122000 said:

The thing I can't understand is why delay this build for 3 years it is just a repaint/mould in different colour of what was then a current model, easy money as you are already making green ones, how do you think other companies make money. Now you have to completely restart your production process that costs tons of extra money.

 

From what I gather, Hornby has had factory issues which affected some of their models, the Merchant Navy for e.g. They had to move the tooling from that factory to another which obviously incurred delays and probably sent them to the back of the new factories production queue.

[rowanj]

On 06/03/2021 at 19:17, Black 5 Bear said:

You can only rely on what the sales staff at the store advise, which at this time was a closure to make way for another department unrelated to modelling.

Furthermore, I don't live anywhere near Newcastle and the entire transaction was done over the phone.

Obviously,from your post I was given false information but does it really matter?

The most important thing for me was sourcing a pair of locomotives, which I thought I'd missed out on at a very reasonable price.

When Fenwicks  had the Hornby concession, you got some great bargains, though a lot of stuff was also at the RRP. Now there is a wider choice, but the bargains have gone.

Just had a pre order for an A2/3 paid for, cancelled, and refunded in 24 hours by Hattons. Bought elsewhere and saved £4.

[richard.h]

Hattons have just canceled my pre-order for Sun Castle. I placed this order when the Locos  were announced and Hattons are now saying that they will have insufficient stock to meet demand so the cannot supply.

[Black 5 Bear]

1 minute ago, richard.h said:

Hattons have just canceled my pre-order for Sun Castle. I placed this order when the Locos  were announced and Hattons are now saying that they will have insufficient stock to meet demand so the cannot supply.

Unfortunately, nothing new from Hattons.

They did the same to me a while back with regards to Hornby pre-orders.

I've sent you a PM which may be of interest.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I know I ordered mine just after they sent me the mailshot. I ordered the LNER one at the same time, I am wondering whether to cancel the order from Hattons for that one. I am now beginning whether I really want to order it from someone else, or just save the money. When I first got the mailshot I was really keen, so it is beginning to look like Hornby are just about to lose two sales. Probably not a big loss to them. They are releasing quite a few different types, it might be worth waiting for the 25% sale that occurs if they haven't managed to sell them all.

Tony Wright suggested elsewhere that Hornby are looking to gain expertise in the rendition of the BR green and there are clear improvements that could be made in the construction and packaging of this model. I’m hanging fire for the next BR batch or big reductions on the current releases. It isn’t a must have class for me and there are plenty of other 1960s Eastern Region models coming over the horizon (J26, 27, V2, Deltics and EE Type 3’s for starters) so Hornby wont be getting £170 from me until they up their game with this one

[richard.h]

23 hours ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I know I ordered mine just after they sent me the mailshot. I ordered the LNER one at the same time, I am wondering whether to cancel the order from Hattons for that one. I am now beginning whether I really want to order it from someone else, or just save the money. When I first got the mailshot I was really keen, so it is beginning to look like Hornby are just about to lose two sales. Probably not a big loss to them. They are releasing quite a few different types, it might be worth waiting for the 25% sale that occurs if they haven't managed to sell them all.

Thanks to help from another RM member I have now located a replacement Loco which is on order, but I also have a W1 on pre-order with Hattons so do I hope that they will honour this order or play safe and look around now for a replacement elsewhere.

 

In my own experience Hattons have been good in the past at fulfilling orders so I am hoping that this is just a one-off

[Legend]

14 hours ago, richard.h said:

Thanks to help from another RM member I have now located a replacement Loco which is on order, but I also have a W1 on pre-order with Hattons so do I hope that they will honour this order or play safe and look around now for a replacement elsewhere.

 

In my own experience Hattons have been good in the past at fulfilling orders so I am hoping that this is just a one-off

 

To be honest , the evidence on this thread and experience of the Rocket last year  would suggest this is not a one off .  We don't know why . We don't know if its Hornby or Hattons  or indeed each others systems just not compatible with the way they do business . The parties concerned have not given any re assurances . So given that , I would be inclined to look elsewhere and once found cancel my order at Hattons . It might be alright , but there's radio silence on this issue from both parties. Why take the risk?

 

People who have come out glowing in this thread are Derails , great to deal with when I ordered my Scotrail HST, Colletts and Bure Valley .  I'm not sure if Arcadia does pre orders , but also a great shop to deal with . 

[Black 5 Bear]

6 hours ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Seeing as preorders are where maximum profit probably is, Hattons need to sort it out. If it is Hornby it is only a matter of time before Hattons start legal action seeing as it is probably destroying their Hornby business.  Without Bachmann and Hornby supply being flaky, they only really have their own brands to sell. Up until last year there were no issues with Hattons, this year everything I preordered off them that is Hornby, they have not been able to supply. The really annoying thing as is the case my Sun Castle got cancelled on the day they got released.

Hattons will no doubt go down the same road as Rails, who no longer stock Hornby products, save the items they already hold in stock.

If Hornby decide to remove them from their list of authorised dealerships, I doubt there is much legally they can do about it.

Additionally, I think Margate see the future as marketing and selling their products directly to the public.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[GWR-fan]

Entered in error.

Edited March 19, 2021 by GWR-fan

[Ian Hargrave]

2 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Hattons will no doubt go down the same road as Rails, who no longer stock Hornby products, save the items they hold in stock.

If Hornby decide to remove them from their list of authorised dealerships, I doubt there is much legally they can do about it.

Additionally, I think Margate see the future as marketing and selling their products directly to the public.

Have they the capacity and organisation to fulfil this ? On both past and current performance I would be inclined to doubt it .They did attempt a nod at direct sell a number of years ago when relations with the retail trade reached a state of....shall we say....disharmony. To a certain degree that has been repaired but trouble seems to be brewing again. It shouldn’t be forgotten that both Rails and Hattons are both strong enough players in their own right to absorb conflict with Hornby. So advice to look to smaller retailers is one I would strongly endorse.

 

But,hey,none of this is new.Shortfall in supply if that’s actually what it is, is an age old phenomenon that keeps rumbling on like thunder in the background . What would help the people who matter...i.e.the clientele who stump up the cash.....is clarity,openness.candour and honesty. Where’s that ? 

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

On 17/03/2021 at 21:35, MikeParkin65 said:

Tony Wright suggested elsewhere that Hornby are looking to gain expertise in the rendition of the BR green and there are clear improvements that could be made in the construction and packaging of this model. I’m hanging fire for the next BR batch or big reductions on the current releases. It isn’t a must have class for me and there are plenty of other 1960s Eastern Region models coming over the horizon (J26, 27, V2, Deltics and EE Type 3’s for starters) so Hornby wont be getting £170 from me until they up their game with this one

Thanks for this. If it really is the case that they are seeking to address the BR green livery finish then that’s a positive step. Who better indeed than Tony Wright to advise if that is indeed the course of action to be taken. Excellent post.

[Ian Hargrave]

49 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Seeing as preorders are where maximum profit probably is, Hattons need to sort it out. If it is Hornby it is only a matter of time before Hattons start legal action seeing as it is probably destroying their Hornby business.  Without Bachmann and Hornby supply being flaky, they only really have their own brands to sell. Up until last year there were no issues with Hattons, this year everything I preordered off them that is Hornby, they have not been able to supply. The really annoying thing as is the case my Sun Castle got cancelled on the day they got released.

Er no I think recourse to litigation is neither necessary nor desirable.But I have much sympathy for your position nonetheless.Quite a number of very good smaller retailers out there eager to give you a good deal with excellent service.The world turns and changes and we have to adapt maybe to life without pre orders from Hattons.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

37 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Have they the capacity and organisation to fulfil this ? On both past and current performance I would be inclined to doubt it .They did attempt a nod at direct sell a number of years ago when relations with the retail trade reached a state of....shall we say....disharmony. To a certain degree that has been repaired but trouble seems to be brewing again. It shouldn’t be forgotten that both Rails and Hattons are both strong enough players in their own right to absorb conflict with Hornby. So advice to look to smaller retailers is one I would strongly endorse.

 

But,hey,none of this is new.Shortfall in supply if that’s actually what it is, is an age old phenomenon that keeps rumbling on like thunder in the background . What would help the people who matter...i.e.the clientele who stump up the cash.....is clarity,openness.candour and honesty. Where’s that ? 

 

 

 

Good points and it is perhaps useful to add that sn mall retailers have also suffered in the past from Hornby's failure to manage the difference between what the retail trade orders and what it has already ordered from a factory or is going to order from a factory.  I don't know the current situation, and hopefully it has improved, but Hornby's ordering arrangements for retailers has long had what might best be descriobed as 'shortcomings' and no doubt the largest retailers could well suffer the greatest, and most obvious to all, grief.

 

But maybe there is another side to this coin as well.  As people turn to other retailers are they in turn going to be unable to supply Hornby product because overall demand exceeds supply?  Many people who shop via Hattons have done so because of both the level of service in a company built around orders from remote customers and, in lots of cases no doubt, because they once offered the lowest or one of the lowest prices.  Standing aside any minimal savings on price if the size of the end market is unchanged and the amount of supply still falls short of market demand then some other retailers are also going to be unable to supply product against pre-orders they have received?  But if that does not turn out to be the case, and there are no problems at all, then it could perhaps be apparent that Hornby had  been unequally cancelling supplies to Hattons and someone might be entitled to ask why that happend)?  Obviously a lot of conjecture in there but if in current circumstances it is only Hattons who are cancelling pre-orders there must surely be a reason for it?

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Seeing as preorders are where maximum profit probably is, Hattons need to sort it out. If it is Hornby it is only a matter of time before Hattons start legal action seeing as it is probably destroying their Hornby business.  Without Bachmann and Hornby supply being flaky, they only really have their own brands to sell. Up until last year there were no issues with Hattons, this year everything I preordered off them that is Hornby, they have not been able to supply. The really annoying thing as is the case my Sun Castle got cancelled on the day they got released.

How do you work that out?

I would have thought that they tend to cost the larger retailer in respect of margins, as it often seems to finish up with the retailer absorbing  price increase. Not as common a situation as it was in the past as they woild seem to have more control over what T&C they advertise. Once bitten twice shy it seems. There is also the hassle of setting up a separate form of stock control and admin. However they can be seen as a "come on" as people who show loyalty with pre orders are likely to order other items at the same time. Pre order prices do still seem to offer good value in my experience. The current situation can only lead to people putting in duplicate orders and  the manufacturers being blinded as to just what demand is out there for a new model. Some new models do seem to be very popular. I wonder what will happen with demand for the 78xxx.

Bernard

[Legend]

It is interesting that in the Hattons interview last Saturday on the Virtual Model Railway Exhibition  that a lot was made of Hattons second hand trade and branching out into US stock . Maybe that is where they see their future .

 

I think it’s still hard to envisage a major model railway shop in the U.K. that doesn’t sell Hornby . Yes I know Rails do it  , but they can at least trade Bachmann . To have neither and still be a presence in U.K. market I think unlikely , so Hattons probably need Hornby . That said , they really need to sort this out . 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Legend

[truffy]

7 hours ago, Legend said:

People who have come out glowing in this thread are Derails , great to deal with when I ordered my Scotrail HST, Colletts and Bure Valley .  I'm not sure if Arcadia does pre orders , but also a great shop to deal with . 

I still stand by my earlier recommendation of Kernow, also.