Preorder email

[cheesysmith]

That is the key to this question. Is it hattons over selling their allocation, or hattons ordering so many from their rep, only to be told later that they will not be getting their full supply? If it is the former, the fault would be hattons, if the latter, what would stop Hornby from not selling any of its most popular stock direct at full RRP and not to shops with the lower profit of the trade sales?

[Black 5 Bear]

Just now, cheesysmith said:

That is the key to this question. Is it hattons over selling their allocation, or hattons ordering so many from their rep, only to be told later that they will not be getting their full supply? If it is the former, the fault would be hattons, if the latter, what would stop Hornby from not selling any of its most popular stock direct at full RRP and not to shops with the lower profit of the trade sales?

Personally, I think that direct sales at full RRP are what Hornby envisage as their sales/marketing strategy for the future.

I would not be surprised in the least, if Hattons went the same way as Rails with regard to stocking this brand.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Just now, cheesysmith said:

if the latter, what would stop Hornby from not selling any of its most popular stock direct at full RRP and not to shops with the lower profit of the trade sales?

I suspect Hornby are seeing how many pre-orders they get before allocating the remainder to retailers on a basis of a certain small amount, say 10, each then splitting the rest on a reducing percentage based of the number requested. Ask 10 get 10, ask 50 get 20, ask100 get 30 or similar split.

[Legend]

Well as far as I can see this is the third round of these cancelations 

 

I'd be loathe to go to Hornby direct and pay full RRP, although I suspect that could be a strategy of theirs . But its clear you can have no confidence in Hattons , So I'd go Derails , Kernow  who don't seem to have any issues . 

[Roddy Angus]

I don't know what is going on but Hattons are still receiving stock from Hornby (see new arrivals) and are still taking pre-orders on a large number of Hornby future releases, so it looks unlikely that there has been a falling out between the two companies.  I would not think that Hattons would be off loading pre-orders in anticipation of ceasing to stock Hornby products whilst still accepting pre-orders on other Hornby products.

 

I would ask , if this is a Hornby problem, why does it not seem to be affecting any other supplier?  I do wonder if Hattons needs to adjust its thinking to take account of smaller runs and therefore smaller quantities available for each retailer.  I doubt that Hornby would ever let themselves get in the position that they are supplying most of the run of a particular item to a single retailer, even if they can sell it all.  That would result in a monopoly as other retailers closed due to lack of stock.

 

Regards

 

Roddy

Edited April 7, 2021 by Roddy Angus
Sorry forgot to include my name

[MikeParkin65]

54 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

My dad just had his coronation coaches cancelled.

 

I wonder how legal it is if they short supply hattons, but have some they sell direct at full RRP? Would that be classed as ripping off the customer? But with the trading standards just a shadow of what it was, we customers come a long way down the chain in any rights.

Capitalism remains legal. Not saying it should be but it is. Other manufacturers and suppliers of model trains remain available so I doubt there would be any recourse to Trading Standards in any circumstance. 

[RyanN91]

It is an outrage from Hornby! I was informed  today at 11am from Hatton's that my LNER Farewell HST power cars along with the 6 MK3s have been cancelled along with my R3970 Class 8P 'Merchant Navy' 4-6-2 35016 "Elders Fyffes. Why do they wait over 4 months to cancel when after my pre orders were placed on the announcement  date to cancel retailers allocated stock?  Can we all expect this again from Hornby next month and so until the rest of the year? 

[Fireline]

Just now, RyanN91 said:

It is an outrage from Hornby! I was informed  today at 11am from Hatton's that my LNER Farewell HST power cars along with the 6 MK3s have been cancelled along with my R3970 Class 8P 'Merchant Navy' 4-6-2 35016 "Elders Fyffes. Why do they wait over 4 months to cancel when after my pre orders were placed on the announcement  date to cancel retailers allocated stock?  Can we all expect this again from Hornby next month and so until the rest of the year? 

As we keep saying, no other retailer is doing this. Might be an idea to consider where you order from?

[RyanN91]

Just now, Fireline said:

As we keep saying, no other retailer is doing this. Might be an idea to consider where you order from?

Yes apologies for the rant yes we can't go blaming Hornby nor can we blame the retailers (which I haven't) thankfully I have now secured a LNER Farewell HST set if or not I can a R3970 Class 8P 'Merchant Navy' 4-6-2 35016 "Elders Fyffes is another matter. 

[60800]

20 hours ago, RJennings said:

Yes - Ordered through Hattons around 24hrs after it was announced.

 

Nothing against you, but this is what really gets me; pre-orders as a rule should be first come first serve. I had my entire set ordered within half an hour of it appearing on the website and it was cancelled right at the start of pre-orders being chopped, yet someone orders it a full day after me and a set is still allocated to them until now.

 

Bravo Hattons, bravo....

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

I suspect Hornby are seeing how many pre-orders they get before allocating the remainder to retailers on a basis of a certain small amount, say 10, each then splitting the rest on a reducing percentage based of the number requested. Ask 10 get 10, ask 50 get 20, ask100 get 30 or similar split.

It sounds to me as if it might be their past rationing process bought up to date - that is nothing new for Hornby and Hattons have very definitely not been the only victim of it in the past.  But it does seem odd that so far as we know it is only happening with Hattons at present which leaves an open question in respect of Rails forsaking dealing with Hornby - did they too suffer in this way?  (not that we will ever receive an answer to that).

 

So does it mean - as some are suggesting - that Hornby are dealing with their really big retailers in this way in order to have more stock to sell direct, or is it down to incompetence on the part of Hornby, or wishful thinking that their pre-orders will actually be honoured on the part of Hattons?  We don't know and we probably never will but it is definitely leaving a nasty taste in the mouth when you consider that at its heart pre-ordering is a matter of trust between the end customer (us), the retailer, and the 'manufacturer'.  And we shouldn't overlook the fact that more than one part of that business triangle can lose heart and interest if it doesn't deliver on the trust that has been placed in it. 

 

I had in mind one or two possible 'I'd like to' purchases of (expensive)  Hornby items which might appear this year  (especially as one promised for last year still hasn't arrived) although I don't order through Hattons anyway.  But to be honest I don't think I'll bother now as Hornby is apparently not a reliable supplier if it can't be bothered to honour retailer orders or takes orders which it cannot meet and I wouldn't want to deprive anybody of a chance to buy something they really want by placing a pre-order for an 'I'd like to' item.  Maybe Hornby need to make their policy clear for the benefit of those of us who might otherwise be inclined to add to our piles of red boxes?

 

And perhaps we shouldn't overlook in all this that Hornby have finance loans they are paying for even if they don't draw on them so it is clearly in their interest as a business to maximise cashflow.   

https://www.investegate.co.uk/Hornby-plc/rns/new-loan-facilities/201806060700064151Q/

[CUCKOO LINE]

It seems that it is only Hornby items that get affected so therefore I deduce it is a problem with the way that Hornby interact with their customers. I feel sorry for the person who saves up for that something special and then their hopes get dashed. Having been in the position when I was young of having to save up for a particular item I would have been devastated if my order got cancelled, not good for encouraging people into the hobby.

[RJennings]

3 hours ago, 60800 said:

Nothing against you, but this is what really gets me; pre-orders as a rule should be first come first serve. I had my entire set ordered within half an hour of it appearing on the website and it was cancelled right at the start of pre-orders being chopped, yet someone orders it a full day after me and a set is still allocated to them until now.

 

Bravo Hattons, bravo....

None taken, but I fully agree with your comments though.

 

One would think first come first serve in such instances of it being over-subscribed but clearly its almost random as to whose pre-orders are being cancelled when orders need the trim. Outside of just what is going with Hattons and or Hornby its hard to blame one or the other but trust in wanting to order through either is slowly and slowly being eroded away as ultimately its the customer who will lost out.

[Legend]

You know , having an effective ordering system is really not rocket science , its very basic .  And this is what hacks me off . No one seems to be doing anything about it . As I said , this looks like the third iteration of these messages . Does anybody care or do they just keep accepting orders and  think they can  churn out these messages with impunity ? Not really customer service is it? Clearly there is something very wrong with Hattons/Hornby interface that other retailers seem unaffected by .   It really isn' t good enough .

[Cor-onGRT4]

On 25/02/2021 at 15:46, Ribird said:

I've seen few people who ordered the BR Blue Merchant Navy in 2018 have their order cancelled from Hattons. 

Looks like Hattons don't get what they ordered for by Hornby  in the first delivery , so they cancelled customers pre orders, and after a while 

Hornby can deliver more and Hattons is ordering a new stock, but they cancelled these pre orders before, and can not fufill them afterwards because they did'nt thaugt they could anymore , and don't have these preorders information anymore.

The blue Merchant Navy is now more than 10 in stock, so i ordered it after this was in stock and had no pre order for it.

It was out of mine period , but such a beauty i could not resist

This happened before, there were two Hornby buildings sold out on preorder, and it disappeared from the site after a while.

So i asked them i they were ever to get them in stock later [Hornby had these in stock] but they reply me they had got there maxium allocation,

so they would not get anymore.

Surprise,surprise, after a few weeks they suddenly had both more than 10 in stock, so eventually i could order them from Hattons.

Looks like Hornby says first they reached them maxium allocation, and later on Hornby says to Hattons you may order again.

So don't be surprised if after a while,  several of these cancellations suddenly appeared on the Hattons site again if Hornby still have stock

afterwards.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Cor-onGRT4

[TheSignalEngineer]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

I had in mind one or two possible 'I'd like to' purchases of (expensive)  Hornby items which might appear this year  (especially as one promised for last year still hasn't arrived) although I don't order through Hattons anyway

I used Hattons quite a lot at one time but haven't since they tried to burn my fingers with a pre-order price increase trying to debit my account without telling me about it. Fortunately the card had expired and their new price was the same as other suppliers so I carried on with it. Now I tend to go to someone like Derails, Kernow or a small shop where I still get decent service.

I've got to the state where most of the appropriate models for my current layout are available or I've doctored them like 64xx to 74xx as I got fed up of waiting for Bachmann to announce one.  I will buy a Manor when I see how they turn out but won't pre order anything unless someone announces a Johnson 2F Belpaire version or Conflat L. I sometimes buy a nice to have but only if I spot a special offer on it. 

[Jonboy]

I buy a wide variety of arts and crafts products from around the world (branded items from factories and our own brand items) for work at a wholesaler. We are seeing a non-stop issue of orders being short-shipped, postponed, delayed and cancelled as our suppliers are struggling to get raw materials, packaging and also manage their production around their various countries versions of COVID secure, social distancing, lockdowns and self-isolation.

 

This against a backdrop of record worldwide demand for hobby items as people are generally at home more at the moment.

 

It has deteriorated from a normal rate very high fulfilment rate on our purchase orders to a significantly poorer level depending on the suppliers, and we cannot rely on any orders being fulfilled until in the hands of our freight forwarders.

 

Freight is also unpredictably high in cost and in short supply leading to a squeeze on margins and delays in shipment (even when you think it’s all booked and ready to go in some cases).
 

 

I do wonder if Hornby are getting full fulfilment of their orders from the factory’s, but don’t know if they would short-ship one customer or evenly chop them from all orders....cynically editing one customers orders is a lot easier than trying to evenly cull all of them...particularly if the customer has volume discounts or performance rebates negotiated that lower the bottom line further...

[TheSignalEngineer]

12 hours ago, Jonboy said:

I buy a wide variety of arts and crafts products from around the world (branded items from factories and our own brand items) for work at a wholesaler. We are seeing a non-stop issue of orders being short-shipped, postponed, delayed and cancelled as our suppliers are struggling to get raw materials, packaging and also manage their production around their various countries versions of COVID secure, social distancing, lockdowns and self-isolation.

It seems to be the same story with cycle spares. Even common items like chains and disc brake rotors are difficult to obtain, some suppliers quoting several months for delivery. In this case it's not only Covid but the Brexit trade situation hasn't helped as a lot of parts were being imported via the EU.

[ruggedpeak]

And don't forget the Suez was blocked for a while and a lot of ships diverted expecting it to take longer than it did to clear....

 

I've previously had Hattons cancel parts of a large (£1k) pre-order of Hornby 2020 items after most places had sold out, found TMC still listed the items and they have delivered everything that has been released to date. Including multiples of an item that was sold out everywhere.

 

I don't think it appropriate to take sides as it is clear no one actually knows the facts except the 2 companies. I suspect Hatton's pre-order process is not as robust as some other outfits, and Hornby logistics are probably still recovering from the previous management as well as all the other challenges like the pandemic. Put the two together and it doesn't work as well as we'd like.

[Hilux5972]

And I’ve just had another email cancelling my original W1 and BR W1. Which were offered January 2020. So over this! Preordered directly with Hornby instead. Sick of being messed around and the reduction in VAT for being overseas helps to compensate for the high postage cost. Hattons have just lost another customer. They should confirm their allocation before opening preorders in future I think. 

[Cor-onGRT4]

And gone is my Hush Hush British Enterprise, just a few minutes ago an email from Hattons

[atom3624]

I've just had my pre-order for original W1 and rebuilt BR cancelled.

 

Considering the number of cancellations being observed in this thread, and I'm another who ordered virtually immediately, there's a major issue somewhere!!

 

Al.

[Cor-onGRT4]

I am wondering if Hattons is reading these post, should made them thinking about these problems and find an solution for future.

So this would not happen again, many people are leaving Hattons as an supplier, bad for buisness and good name.

[Free At Last]

On 06/03/2021 at 16:54, GNR Dave said:

Obviously his choice, but after 4 weeks and 10 pages of posts, I'm surprised Hattons Dave has not responded.

Perhaps the title and placing of the OP in the Hornby section means he is unaware of the thread ?

 

4 minutes ago, Cor-onGRT4 said:

I am wondering if Hattons is reading these post, should made them thinking about these problems and find an solution for future.

So this would not happen again, many people are leaving Hattons as an supplier, bad for buisness and good name.

Perhaps a new thread should be started in the Hattons section.

[Dublodad]

Mine have also been cancelled, but I have already pre-ordered these and the P2's from alternative suppliers, but not yet cancelled my Hattons ones to see what happens!!!! All my Hattons pre-orders bar one have been cancelled by Hattons. I will not be ordering from them again!!!