APOLLO Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Wonder what David Icke has to say ? Brit15 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 Just now, col.stephens said: Who is David Icke? Former pro-football player who after retirement became well known/celebrity status for making inane statements! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AY Mod Posted May 20, 2021 Moderators Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, col.stephens said: Who is David Icke? One of the few loons who hasn't turned up to this topic. 1 2 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2021 Just now, john new said: Former pro-football player who after retirement became well known/celebrity status for making inane statements! In particular a notorious pedlar of conspiracy theories... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, AY Mod said: One of the few loons who hasn't turned up to this topic. Just checking in didn’t want to be the one loon who hadn’t contributed! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trofimow Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 20 minutes ago, Trains4U said: OK, against my better judgement, I'll bite.. Don't expect to see a full and open explanation any time soon. Thankyou for putting your head above the parapet... Against my better judgement, I'll respond. Obviously, as a mere consumer and end user of Hornby's products I don't know what's going on, and don't expect I ever will. I merely ordered a lot of product in good faith from a retailer who took those orders in good faith and then found their supply denied to them. Some of that product I have managed to source elsewhere, some I have not. It IS only toy trains and not the end of the world, but it has caused me hassle, inconvenience and expense that I do not need. The bottom line is that I don't like the way Hornby have treated their end users or their retailers, it leaves a bad taste and it does not make me think kindly of them. It will mean that I will be likely to purchase fewer of their offerings in future. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trains4U Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Trofimow said: It IS only toy trains and not the end of the world, Respectfully, I disagree, particularly if it is your livelihood, or if you are one of the 60 staff employed by Hattons... Edited May 20, 2021 by Trains4U 14 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trofimow Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Trains4U said: Respectfully, I disagree, particularly if it is your livelihood, or if you are one of the 60 staff employed by Hattons... Very true - but then you have a clearer picture than most of us are privy to, and maybe there is more at play than is apparent to a mere past purchaser of Hornby products 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 It would seem reading between the lines there is conflict between traders and Hornby and I really don’t understand why either would want this although I am aware Hornby can sell directly there is a symbiotic relationship between the 2. They should be mutually beneficial to each other! Confused of Lancashire. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, col.stephens said: Having had my 'pre-order' cancelled, what is the procedure in future for buying Hornby models? With no guarantee of any UK retailer being able to fulfill any order from Hornby I am now totally at a loss as to how to obtain their products. Terry Direct from Hornby seems to be the only guarantee at the mo..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Or Amazon Prime - Delivered same day. Brit15 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey28 Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 43 minutes ago, Trofimow said: Thankyou for putting your head above the parapet... Against my better judgement, I'll respond. Obviously, as a mere consumer and end user of Hornby's products I don't know what's going on, and don't expect I ever will. I merely ordered a lot of product in good faith from a retailer who took those orders in good faith and then found their supply denied to them. Some of that product I have managed to source elsewhere, some I have not. It IS only toy trains and not the end of the world, but it has caused me hassle, inconvenience and expense that I do not need. The bottom line is that I don't like the way Hornby have treated their end users or their retailers, it leaves a bad taste and it does not make me think kindly of them. It will mean that I will be likely to purchase fewer of their offerings in future. I totally agree with you and feel the same way about Hornby now with the current situation. I have to say I feel very sorry for anyone who relies on dealing Hornby for a living. I'm sure the last thing any retailers want to do is let their customers down. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Given that many have had their pre-orders cancelled will they be so willing to commit to pre-ordering the 2022 production come early January next year? Will a potential downturn in pre-orders lead to a reduction in production numbers and lack of availability of specific items. Low production numbers would ensure limited or negligible discounting. The current cancellation of pre-orders is not limited to just a few items which may have been a result of limited production runs, but it seems that the cancellations are across the spectrum of Hornby production. This indicates a specific targeted market strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 On 11/05/2021 at 12:17, ruggedpeak said: Just going to dig out my tinfoil hat, fire up the rumour mill and go full monty X files on this one!!!! See, I was right, there is something going on that no one wants to talk about. I'm going to need a bigger tinfoil hat. You think its a coincidence that this is going on whilst Obama is saying there's UFO's? https://edition.cnn.com/videos/media/2021/05/19/barack-obama-talks-ufos-late-late-show-int-orig-bdk.cnn It's a conspiracy....don't say I didn't warn you. PS where's the alien face emoji? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey28 Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, GWR-fan said: Given that many have had their pre-orders cancelled will they be so willing to commit to pre-ordering the 2022 production come early January next year? Will a potential downturn in pre-orders lead to a reduction in production numbers and lack of availability of specific items. Low production numbers would ensure limited or negligible discounting. The current cancellation of pre-orders is not limited to just a few items which may have been a result of limited production runs, but it seems that the cancellations are across the spectrum of Hornby production. This indicates a specific targeted market strategy. I very much doubt I will pre-order anything from Hornby next year unless things improve On the bright side at least I will save myself £10 not buying the catalogue 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 57 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said: To be quite honest the preordering of an item seems a bit wrong anyway. I don't preorder my next dewalt drill. The way Hornby works seems a bit weird, they produce a catalogue in January of things they might make this year or next depending on how it goes. It seems if they don't get enough preorders they don't make it. To me the catalogue seems a bit like a "wishlist" that may or may not come true. Most people ordered their unrebuilt Blue Merchant Navy loco two to three years ago. Then you get the issue of upfront payment of deposit or the full amount. So what happens if the Model Shop goes bust in the mean time. I mean when you buy from Argos, you don't wait two years for the TV in the catalogue to be delivered. This mode of showing to trade, taking preorders and then applying knowledge(from previous sales of similar items) is quite common in hobby industries (and motor trade etc), but social media and demand to know everything, has driven the launches from trade shows into the public spotlight far far faster, leading to fastest retailers getting preorders in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleander Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Would not like to be a staff member working on the Hornby stand at the Next show they attend. I bet they will get some flack . 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 7 hours ago, ruggedpeak said: FTFY. Farcical? Hardly, the only farce is Hornby's inability to faciltiate customers buying its products or communicate with them. Unfounded? Hardly, plenty of anecdotal evidence of things go awry not just at Hattons and silence from Hornby. Unwarranted? Not really, complete lack of comms to customers seeing orders cancelled at various retailers without explanation or assistance as to how to get the items they are after. Cryptic remarks and fanboi comments are about as much uswe as conspiracy theories and Hornby's website stockist list. But we don't really know that do we? First of all. we do not know how the tier system works and what its purpose is, nor do we know when it was created. And we will only know any of that important information if either a retailer or Hornby goes public and tells us what the system is for and how tiers are allocated to retailers - and i'd be amazed if that happens.. The crux of the problem is not the tier system - which for all we know could be an answer to a problem rather than the actual problem - but why it has been created. On the face of it the answer to that question appears fairly obvious - Hornby have either taken more orders from retailers than they have ordered from the factories or they have diverted models from retailer allocations to direct sales (or Amazon sales?) or a combination of those factors. The only reason retailer allocations have been cancelled or severely reduced is because the models aren't there to meet those orders. So we come back to what appears to be a management failure within Hornby where - let us not forget - the present regime promised fairly early on to support the retail trade; that 'promise' or 'undertaking' (call it what you will) has been reneged on by Hornby. So we again come back to another wording of the same question - why has Hornby been unable to honour what it previously said? And we are again going to come back to the same reason because they would surely be supplying stock to retailers if they had it to supply? They recently told their shareholders that their supply chain is resilient and if that was correct (why should we doubt something they said to shareholders?) then the obvious alternative is that either they took more orders from retailers than the quantities they had ordered from factories or they have diverted stock meant for retailers elsewhere, or both 8 5 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Thanks for the common sense, no hype, appraisal. P 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mvwilson Posted May 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2021 From AJM Railways An Announcement from www.AJMRailways.com Gentlemen and Customers I will begin with 2 apologies, the first and most important being to my Customers (many of whom are members of this Group) in respect of the way recent events have and will affect my future ability to supply in the manner you have become used to and the second apology is for the time it has taken to convey this to you. As some of you already know, Hornby decided to "Band" retailers back in January. Now 4 months later they have finally given explanation to why and how each account is banded. In this announcement, they describe Band 3 retailers such as AJM as "retailers who dont have a shop or if they do it may be of such a standard no one would want to visit it". Other criteria would include bad credit history, manufacturing competing products and not stocking the full range of Hornby Brands (eg Airfix etc). While it is good to have received such clarification the initial effects of the "banding" back in January started to be felt when pre orders placed in January were then "allocated" back to much lower numbers. Gradually since then the "allocations" became more and more severe and in the May announcement confirming the banding rationale, any account in Band 3 was immediately removed from any pre order capacity and all existing pre orders were cancelled. Band 3 retailers are now only able to order "in stock" items and not future releases. So for example if a loco is released this week then Band 1 and 2 will receive theirs and if stock remains not allocated to the Hornby website then Band 3 customers can place orders a few days later I have enjoyed building a business this past 12 years and having a great relationship with customers all over the globe and initially this whole situation hit me severely both physically and mentally. However, it also made me realise the old addage "life is too short" and as such, after discussion with another well known retailer here in the UK, I decided to sell all my OO scale Rolling Stock in a deal that concluded last week. While I was sad to see this happening it also made me realise the net value of the stock was much higher than I had ever envisaged and as such, I can afford to take this all on the chin and not be too worried about it from a "selfish" perspective. However just as the hobby is in the veins of my customers, supplying them is embedded in mine. My thoughts are to continue the AJM site offering the remaining OO ranges like Train Tech, Oxford Diecast, as well as the existing HO ranges like Faller, Noch, Prieser etc which serve both HO modellers and have some commonality with OO modellers. Similarly the "non scale" items like Block Signalling, Loksound, DCC decoders and Hornby and Peco track and points will still be available on the site. With regards to the other OO manufacturers (Dapol, Heljan, Bachmann, Accurascale and soon, Rapido Trains), my thoughts are to take all their future locos and offer them on the AJM site with each new loco being available for 8 weeks (or longer if a Customer says he wants one but asks for it to be held for him). After that I will delist the locos and set them for sale in the UK only as having thinned out my stock holdings I really am not inclined, at my age, to build it back up again. Should this suit my Customers I will continue to do this? With regards to Hornby, for as long as they are happy to allow me to have an account (and this is totally in their control), I am happy to continue to offer their available new locos again on an 8 week rolling basis. Any loco listed will be in stock with me already and I cannot take pre orders for new releases until after they are offered to Band 1 and 2 accounts as set out above. I appreciate this does mean that some locos eg Hush Hush are unlikely to be available via AJM at all. Dealing with Coaches and Rolling stock I do not propose to get back into this to the extent of holding vast quantities of stock for many years into the future, so am happy for any Customer to simply ping me an email with the stock codes and quantities and I can see if I can supply this order on a bespoke basis at my usual competitive prices and shipping. This will apply to all manufacturers coaches and wagons in OO scale and not to future releases as I seek to maintain a good service but avoid holding vast stock in the future. I appreciate that this scenario of future orders will not suit all Customers and to them I can only apologise and wish them well in the future and thank them for their past Custom For Customers who are "happy to give AJM a try" in the future I again thank you and hope that I can offer you a good service with prompt replies and a reasonable level of successful outcomes on their inquiries As the saying goes "every cloud has a silver lining" and my initial upset and fears etc are now a distant memory as I know whatever happens I cannot be affected by the decisions of others beyond my control and regardless of their motivations. Any sadness is only to my Customers whom I may loose or who themselves are unable to get the items they require or at least in a manner that is affordable to them Thank you for taking the time to read this and again to all my Customers both in this Group and globally I can only say I hope you enjoy your layouts .. who knows .. I may even now have time to build a layout myself! Best Wishes Amanda 5 3 3 6 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 7 hours ago, cbrooks122000 said: Then you get the issue of upfront payment of deposit or the full amount. So what happens if the Model Shop goes bust in the mean time. Pre-orders don't work like that, payment is only taken when the item is in stock. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium amwells Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Markwj said: It would seem reading between the lines there is conflict between traders and Hornby and I really don’t understand why either would want this although I am aware Hornby can sell directly there is a symbiotic relationship between the 2. They should be mutually beneficial to each other! Confused of Lancashire. I would think the reason is margin. Hornby got on top of the debt by issuing equity in the year to 31/3/20. Sales went up during Covid (up by one third in the first six months of the financial year). But their net profit on that upturn in sales was basically zero - £55k, of which £38k was a tax benefit and £14k was (presumably) the 49% of net profit from Oxford. so with supply still limited, why not sell where you get higher margin - the shareholder will be looking for returns in this upturn given the amount of cash put in. to your point about the symbiotic relationship though - those retailers are likely to be needed when there is a downturn in sales... but there is a line in the half year statements that shows the strategy... and this thread shows how it is playing through... Quote (with my bolds): The Routes To Market Physical retailers are an important part of our supply chain. They promote our products, provide personalised advice to customers, and offer comprehensive after sales support. The work they do is important to customers and we want to ensure that those of our retail stockists who invest in this side of the business can survive and we have striven to provide a fair playing field for all. Vast upfront investment is required to create the products that our customers value and cherish. My focus going forward, now we have ‘fixed the engine’, is to ensure that both maintaining the integrity of our brands and creating an excellent experience for our end customer remains paramount. This should hold true no matter where our products are sold. No-one could have foreseen the acceleration in online shopping that took place this year. We want to engage more with our existing customers and to recruit new ones, and we all know that retail will never be the same again. We need to create 'Community' and have more direct engagement, where customers come to us to learn about our products. This is now more important than ever, but unfortunately the pandemic delayed the release of our new website. We expect completion over the coming months; in its early days it will have to be functional, but over time each of the brands will develop their own identity and will move in the direction that best suits their needs. As we move forward our website will feature rich content with images and videos generated by ourselves and our customers, a place where we can interact. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 So every thing is rosy between the company and its retailers and we can place our pre-orders once again in the confidence that our selected products will be available because (quote) "........we want to ensure that those of our retail stockists who invest in this side of the business can survive and we have striven to provide a fair playing field for all." Alas, will those stockists that are currently investing in the business still be in good graces in January, 2022? Those stockists who fall by the wayside and fail to meet Hornby's dedication and devotion to the consumer community will no doubt be unable to take pre-orders next year, however, will the all important consumer be made aware of those "favoured" stockists and those who to avoid long before pre-ordering time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 7 hours ago, oleander said: Would not like to be a staff member working on the Hornby stand at the Next show they attend. I bet they will get some flack . Especially if they place them between the Hattons and Rails stands! 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, amwells said: … the products that our customers value and cherish … A2/2? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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