Preorder email

[69843]

The biggest question to me is how does this affect overseas retailers?

 

Speaking as an Australian, most of our Hornby shipments come through one distributor who does not have a brick and mortar store to deal with, who then sends it out to shops all around the country. As UK isn’t the primary market but is still the second biggest slice of it, there is a LOT of stores down here that would seem to be at risk under this new system. Particularly plenty who do stock a great range of Hornby but are either not large stores or are at other points of the country so do a lot of online as opposed to in person. 

 

The AJM post is worrying as if the criteria are as written, the overseas shops may be in for a heap of trouble. 

 

And thank you to Phil and Andy for reaching out directly to Hornby for a balanced and mediated reply whilst also maintaining the thread. 

[jonnyuk]

38 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I think he was trolling.

 

Asked for the thread to be locked then started to be provocative....

I’m not trolling at all. I was making the point there are lots of retailers out there (bricks and motor shops) I have have some 30 saved as bookmarks. 

I have pre orders spread amongst 3/4 shops who i regularly buy from (they are not the big 3 as I like to support smaller shops).

I have never been let down, all have said my orders are secure as does the local I shop I went to today.

if you don’t want to order direct with Hornby I get it. But other retailers besides Hattons are out there etc.

 

 

 

[Retro_man]

32 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

As for a statement coming from Hornby it would be very interesting to see what they have to say but above all they need to make clear whether they did or did or did not accept more orders from retailers for various models than the quantity of those models they had ordered from the factories.  This whole business stems from inability to supply the volume of product hat had been ordered by retailers - beyond that it is really only  managing how the suffering of 'allocation' is spread around.   And when you think about it having a policy to deal with 'allocation' isn't such a bad idea if that is what you are going to have to do. 

 

The trade orders that have been cancelled were mostly placed in 2020 or earlier and cancelled following the adoption of the tier system in 2021. Hornby likely produced all that had been ordered and then when they cancelled the retailer orders were left with a surplus of product which they are now trying to unload via their own e-store and Amazon.

 

This is not going to end well for Hornby or for many retailers and ultimately for the consumer.

 

 

[Retro_man]

5 minutes ago, 69843 said:

The biggest question to me is how does this affect overseas retailers?

 

Speaking as an Australian, most of our Hornby shipments come through one distributor who does not have a brick and mortar store to deal with, who then sends it out to shops all around the country. As UK isn’t the primary market but is still the second biggest slice of it, there is a LOT of stores down here that would seem to be at risk under this new system. Particularly plenty who do stock a great range of Hornby but are either not large stores or are at other points of the country so do a lot of online as opposed to in person. 

 

The AJM post is worrying as if the criteria are as written, the overseas shops may be in for a heap of trouble. 

 

And thank you to Phil and Andy for reaching out directly to Hornby for a balanced and mediated reply whilst also maintaining the thread. 

 

The same situation exists in Canada.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Gaugemaster currently have a complete list of pre orders available to them with actual stock numbers left for purchase.It also lists those sold out.

[caradoc]

1 hour ago, jonnyuk said:

why? Hornby have their policies with the retailer, have their tier system, they will have a list of stockists (maybe that needs updating), if you want something call a retailer, if they don't have it, move onto the next retailer

 

Or alternatively buy something else, from another manufacturer, from the first retailer, saving time and effort chasing up who knows how many shops. 

 

[APOLLO]

Now boys n gals, it's Friday night -  lets have a sing along !!!!

 

 

 

Tiers for Fears "Shout" Lyrics

 

Shout, shout, let it all out
These are the trains I can't do without
Come on, I'm talking to you Hornby, come on

 

Shout, shout, let it all out
These are the Locos I can't do without
Come on, I'm talking to you Hornby, come on

 

In happier times (At Margate)
You shouldn't have to sell your soul (To China)
In black and white
They really, really ought to know

Those one track minds
They took you for a working boy
Kiss them goodbye
You shouldn't have to jump for joy (to a tier one shop)
You shouldn't have to jump for joy

 

Shout, shout

Let it all out
These are the Trains I can't do without
Come on, I'm talking to you Hornby, come on

 

Brit15

[Joseph_Pestell]

23 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

How do you know nothing has been fed back to the decision makers?

 

Fair point, Phil, and I hope that you are right. I was merely answering someone who, probably rightly, thought that this was likely. I will always the support the whistleblower who has the courage to say that the Emperor has no clothes. As I wrote, I have plenty of skins (000ks) in that game.

 

I think that the tone of the e-mails now being sent in will make it impossible to ignore. If they do ignore, they deserve to fail.

 

[ruggedpeak]

44 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

How do you know nothing has been fed back to the decision makers?

I don't but then how can I or anyone else since neither Hornby Customer Service nor their PR dept are prepared to act or comment on the situation as yet. There is no sign of the other items I refer to, so rather than picking one detail the issue is the overall customer experience. It is not unreasonable to conclude that feedback is not being provided given the lack of meaningful responses or action so far to the distruption to a noticeable number of customers, other than deploying Comical Ali on here.

 

Good customer service should be overt and positive in the customer facing environment regardless of medium. If they are providing feedback they should be advising the customer in some way. It is about how the customer feels at the end of the interaction, so feeding back whilst not telling the customer is only half a job.

 

Bottom line, are they providing good business enhancing, customer retaining and loyalty creating customer service in this situation where customers are being inconvenienced?

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by ruggedpeak

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, jonnyuk said:

I’m not trolling at all. I was making the point there are lots of retailers out there (bricks and motor shops) I have have some 30 saved as bookmarks. 

I have pre orders spread amongst 3/4 shops who i regularly buy from (they are not the big 3 as I like to support smaller shops).

I have never been let down, all have said my orders are secure as does the local I shop I went to today.

if you don’t want to order direct with Hornby I get it. But other retailers besides Hattons are out there etc.

 

 

 

 

Nope. You were trolling and still are. Okay, I'll bite.

 

First demanding the thread to be locked. Why? People still have things to say even though it doesn't apparently apply to you as you are so superior.

 

Then saying you aren't participating. Yet still are....

 

Then blaming the retailers and buyers.

 

Then posting "My shop is in Tier One" trying to points gain. Even though nobody knows what the tier system is or whether it is actually real.

 

Still at it with the "I have never been let down". You are blaming others whilst gloating.

 

Classic trolling.

 

I thought you said you were leaving....

[Joseph_Pestell]

16 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

 

Nobody wants to see that, trust me.

 

It's great that a retailer can retain a sense of humour about this.

[ruggedpeak]

18 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

 

Nobody wants to see that, trust me.

I bet if you set up an internet site with it on you'd find no shortage of punters..........

[Joseph_Pestell]

This what I have just sent.

E-mail Hornby.pdf

[Ian Hargrave]

10 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

This what I have just sent.

E-mail Hornby.pdf 28.04 kB · 20 downloads

Full metal jacket then.....

[jonhall]

11 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

This what I have just sent.

E-mail Hornby.pdf 28.04 kB · 21 downloads

 

I'd recall that, and convert it to this font, I think it might make more of an impact..

 

 

 

or perhaps not

 

Jon

[truffy]

On 19/05/2021 at 22:21, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

It does when it has accepted an order.

Not only that but it’s not an issue of one retailer. Several seem to have been affected. Including the little local ones.  Yet H has plenty in its store. 
 

Whether or not it’s illegal doesn’t matter, it still smells rotten.

[AY Mod]

39 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

This what I have just sent.

E-mail Hornby.pdf 28.04 kB · 58 downloads

 

Way to go. When I get a complaint email with any Caps Lock on it helps me prioritise it.

[Wolf27]

42 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

This what I have just sent.

E-mail Hornby.pdf 28.04 kB · 47 downloads

You do realise that any email sent late on a Friday with either not get read till next week or just ruin somebody’s weekend, and it won’t be Simon Kohler’s. Then it will get filed in a folder named angry emails or worse.

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

To be fair, what do you expect a Customer Service person to do? Storm the boardroom and demand a policy change on the back of a cancelled order?

No. (And I assume do you know that).

I never expected anything other than the response I got. The order was cancelled 9th May, 12 days ago, and wouldn't be in the public domain tonight either, but for the strengths of feelings of others expressed today.

 

So, lets step back from the posturing for a minute...

In my day job, I provide value to end customers who use my products for their objectives... no matter how much I know about the product, I can never truly be in the head of my customer because their objectives, motivations, fears and needs will never be the same...

For those making a professional career working in this hobby it is much the same.. Business is first. Playing model railways is a fun second, after work objectives are met.

No matter how close to being a hobbyist they may be..paying the bills comes first.

 

which is why I posted what I posted, and hoping to explain...

 

1. i’m passionate about the hobby, I have been my whole life, and am probably one of the most passionate there is, but i’m frustrated.
2. Others are frustrated.

3. There is a negative perception appearing that no one cares.

 

The hobby relies on its good will and understanding to compensate for its flaws.

I may just appear to some here as a numpty amongst numpties, having fun who makes noise online, and those working within the industry may just shrug shoulders, laugh, make fun and don't care, but those numpties are customers...My frustration lead to loss not just for several Hornby orders mentioned above, but also for several other retailers (and other manufacturers) whom I also had pre-orders for...  my 2021 pre-orders are now re-sized, reflecting that loss of enthusiasm due to events.
 

I’m sure once new tooling arrives, it will lift me up and restore my faith, but at that point I chose whether to bother or leave anything I canceled... in sales terms that revenue has gone from a Committed sale (90%) for a hugely enthusiastic customer to a Prospect customer (10%) who may or may not care at that time.

 

 

This industry is based on fun, if you remove the fun, you remove the need for the product, not just the numpties using it.

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by adb968008

[MikeParkin65]

19 minutes ago, Wolf27 said:

You do realise that any email sent late on a Friday with either not get read till next week or just ruin somebody’s weekend, and it won’t be Simon Kohler’s. Then it will get filed in a folder named angry emails or worse.

To be fair that email isn’t going to ruin anyone’s day, it will be the ice breaker ‘let’s have a laugh before serious business’ item for Monday’s `teams meeting

[Legend]

2 hours ago, Wolf27 said:

All those who are stating they will not buy from Hornby again are just sh*tting in your own nest. What are you going to do when Hornby announce something that you have been wanting for years? Do you want Hornby to fold and disappear? Perhaps stop your reliance on places like Hattons and look elsewhere.

Its true there is no point cutting off your nose to spite their face . If Hornby brought out a Glasgow Blue Train tomorrow , I’d probably order direct from Hornby as I really want it .

 

That  said , this leaves a very bad taste and I applaud those that have made a principled stand and I certainly will seek to avoid ordering direct from Hornby . I have just received my A2/2 from Amazon , who I believed I was buying from , but I have a feeling it may well have been Hornby and this is their new fire sale route . 
 

No one wants anyone to fold . That said Hornby appear to have a callous disregard for any retailers they are cutting off on Tier 3 .  If current Hornby disappeared it would continue in another form. After all they are just a commissioner of models , the same as everyone else , and indeed Hattons . 

[Roy Langridge]

2 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

To be fair that email isn’t going to ruin anyone’s day, it will be the ice breaker ‘let’s have a laugh before serious business’ item for Monday’s `teams meeting

And if you are right (and I think you probably are) then it shows just how out of touch Hornby have become. 
 

Roy

[Matt C]

Hope you more knowledgeable peeps can clarify something.

 

We are told that Hornby introduced a new tier system in January and that they told the retailers what Tier they would be in, what this meant in regards to stock alocation, and the reasons why.

 

Hornby are being castigated for not honouring orders placed with them by Retailers.

Were these orders ACTUALLY orders OR as I seam to understand the way Horby works. . Expressions of a quantity they would LIKE to receive.

As I THOUGHT I understood it, Hornby would only confirm a number any retailer would receive once a delivery was confirmed and shipped by the Manufacturer ?

Does this mean that actually Hornby are guilty of not meeting a retailers whish list rather than a confirmed and accepted order ?

 

And that a retailer is guilty of over selling something they have no guarantee, and quite possibly have been pre warned, they have no possibility of actually recieving ?

 

OTHER Retailers were told they WOULD receive the quantity they HOPED they would receive and ARE able to cover orders they have taken

 

 

 

Just playing Devils advocate

[Andy Hayter]

4 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

Other retailers also happily ship overseas...

 

Yes but are they WYSIWYG = or perhaps WYPIAWYP (what you pay is actually what you pay,  or do you have to expect additional charges for VAT and a nice little earner for the company extracting the VAT payment?  

42€ on a Bachmann 0-4-4T - should have been shipped in December but due to Covid and pre-Xmas demand was deferred onto January - so a double disappointment. 

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, Legend said:

I certainly will seek to avoid ordering direct from Hornby . I have just received my A2/2 from Amazon , who I believed I was buying from , but I have a feeling it may well have been Hornby

 

Well that worked out well didn't it?