Preorder email

[Legend]

8 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Well that worked out well didn't it?  

 Yeah I know . It’s easy to fall into trap.  It does say on order sold by Amazon EURL. , so it’s not obvious . The front buffer beam fell off on opening the box and the reversing rod has now dropped off , but aside from that it’s fine ! 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Legend

[APOLLO]

So if Hornby ARE selling them on Amazon (I paid £132), yet on their website they are full price at £190, and at Hattons (etc) they are sold out. Just what is going on ?

 

Brit15

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

44 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

To be fair that email isn’t going to ruin anyone’s day, it will be the ice breaker ‘let’s have a laugh before serious business’ item for Monday’s `teams meeting

And then hopefully awake and smell the coffee which this week has a strong and profoundly bitter taste 

[APOLLO]

1 hour ago, Wolf27 said:

You do realise that any email sent late on a Friday with either not get read till next week or just ruin somebody’s weekend, and it won’t be Simon Kohler’s. Then it will get filed in a folder named angry emails or worse.

 

Probably worse, far, far worse -----------

 

 

Where Am I ?

 

In Margate

 

What do you want ?

 

Information - (on what you know about our tier system)

 

Whose side are you on ?

 

That would be telling

 

We want information, information

 

You won't get it

 

By hook or by crook, we will !!

 

Who are you ?

 

The new Number Two

 

Who is Number One ?

 

Ha Ha ha - You are number Six

 

I am not a number - I am a paying customer !!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brit15

[Jonboy]

14 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

So if Hornby ARE selling them on Amazon (I paid £132), yet on their website they are full price at £190, and at Hattons (etc) they are sold out. Just what is going on ?

 

Brit15

 

 

The listing are sold from and despatched by Amazon. This means Hornby have sold them to Amazon and shipped to their warehouses for onward sale.

 

There are various programs within Amazon for dealing with product launches and any overstocks that can lead to significant discounting rather that returns as the most cost effective solution.
 

Amazon also have strange price matching algorithms that do strange things at times, without any input from the manufacturer. 

[Helmdon]

3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I will go without, and I told Hornby that. I am well aware that I may not get what I want now, but I am sorry, Hornby have treated customers badly and I will make my one person stand. Until companies feel the pain of bad decisions they will just keep making them. Hornby shafted retailers before, had financial issues, are trying to come through that and decide that shafting more retailers and the cutomer is the way to do it. Utter nonsense.

Roy

A couple of months and a load of pages back I sold all my shares in Hornby as a protest. The fact that I got a lot more than they’re worth now is a small consolation…

[Retro_man]

7 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

The listing are sold from and despatched by Amazon. This means Hornby have sold them to Amazon and shipped to their warehouses for onward sale.

 

 

Absolutely ridiculous that Hornby will not give a trade account to anyone without a physical store but will supply Amazon!

Where is the Amazon physical store that I can shop in and do Amazon stock the full range of Hornby products?

Seems to be a bit of a double standard going on here...

 

 

[Roy Langridge]

2 minutes ago, Retro_man said:

 

Absolutely ridiculous that Hornby will not give a trade account to anyone without a physical store but will supply Amazon!

Where is the Amazon physical store that I can shop in and do Amazon stock the full range of Hornby products?

Seems to be a bit of a double standard going on here...

 

 

 

Amazon Fresh food shops have opened in this country already and Amazon Go shops for everything else will be here by the end of the year.

Roy

[Simon Lee]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

This what I have just sent.

E-mail Hornby.pdf 28.04 kB · 152 downloads

 

You forgot to put "I pay your wages"  which seems to be the favourite on various FB pages ATM.

 

But to be quite honest anyone either on here or other Social Media  who would be happy for a company to go to the wall with innocent people being put out of work needs to take a long look at themselves in the mirror.

 

That says more about you as a human being than than any hissy fit Email about toy trains.

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

For those who want to send a clear message to Hornby of their dissatisfaction with what has appeared this year - and to be fair in the absence of any explanation from Hornby - you have a number of options.

 

You can cancel your current Hornby pre-orders.  It sends a small message to Hornby but at the end of the day, you know and I know you will probably buy and Hornby have already built your pre-order into their plans and they also know that you will probably buy the model anyway.  The only loser is the shop you said you would buy from who now does not know if you will buy or not.  So while sending a message it is not a strong message.

You could stop buying Hornby models - but you know and I know that when the missing item from your layout or collection comes to market, your need will overcome your message.  The impact on Hornby will be small if noted at all.  They already know what is the demand.

 

Applause to those who have taken this step but I doubt Hornby Marketing/Management have heard the message.

 

OR

 

We could collectively agree not to make any pre-orders against the next Hornby range release in 2022.  None.  Nothing.  No matter how much we want the Northamptonshire collieries wagon or the latest MN.  

 

More and more Hornby rely on pre-orders to determine their run size.  If we were collectively to agree that we will not pre-order under any circumstances then we blind their marketing departement for a portion of their market - It may be only 15%: it may be as much as 40% (depending on the model) but in so doing we undermine their information data base. 

 

I don't want to hurt Hornby but I do want to send them a very clear message:

 

Hornby,

If you want pre-orders, ensure that they can be met.  Identify clearly suppliers who can satisfy pre-orders and then satisfy them.  If not be prepared to fly blind or partially sighted.

WE ARE THE CUSTOMER; NOT SOME INTERMEDIARY THAT YOU FALL OUT WITH.

 

 

 

I have to admit a prejudice in that it is less than likely that Hornby will release anything I am interested in.

 

Nevertheless:

 

NO MORE Hornby PREORDERS

 

 

Please feel free to append that message to any or all of your posts.

[black and decker boy]

There seems to be a lot of OTT rhetoric on here. I think a lot seems to be sour grapes that their bargain price from Hattons has gone.

 

I stopped using Hattons around the time they fell out with Bachman. All my preorders  (nothing really that formal) sit with my local shop. They don’t charge RRP and we get a cup of Tea & a chat when we collect.

 

In a world of batch production, internet sales etc, Hornby know they will sell out most lines. That’s what they are in business to do. They are not in business to sell at a discount, have stock sat in a warehouse for months unsold or worry about trying to maintain supply agreements with every single shop that may or may not sell model trains in low or high volume.

 

Hornby need to keep their eye on producing the right products each year, at the right standard getting them on sale for the best price they can. The cash will follow as we know they will sell. 
 

Only Hornby know the realities of their trading arrangements with the big box shifters in terms of the volumes and discounts involved and how COVID has perhaps changed the volumes that Hornby now sell direct or through the likes of Amazon. It is possible that they can make as much or more now than they ever did. If so, that’s good for the hobby as a stable business will invest more which may mean more new products, upgrades & innovations.

 

I for one will not be imposing any embargo on red boxes 

[Roy Langridge]

2 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

There seems to be a lot of OTT rhetoric on here. I think a lot seems to be sour grapes that their bargain price from Hattons has gone.

 

I stopped using Hattons around the time they fell out with Bachman. All my preorders  (nothing really that formal) sit with my local shop. They don’t charge RRP and we get a cup of Tea & a chat when we collect.

 

In a world of batch production, internet sales etc, Hornby know they will sell out most lines. That’s what they are in business to do. They are not in business to sell at a discount, have stock sat in a warehouse for months unsold or worry about trying to maintain supply agreements with every single shop that may or may not sell model trains in low or high volume.

 

Hornby need to keep their eye on producing the right products each year, at the right standard getting them on sale for the best price they can. The cash will follow as we know they will sell. 
 

Only Hornby know the realities of their trading arrangements with the big box shifters in terms of the volumes and discounts involved and how COVID has perhaps changed the volumes that Hornby now sell direct or through the likes of Amazon. It is possible that they can make as much or more now than they ever did. If so, that’s good for the hobby as a stable business will invest more which may mean more new products, upgrades & innovations.

 

I for one will not be imposing any embargo on red boxes 

Hattons don’t have bigger discounts / bargain prices than anybody else these days, probably the same price as your local shop that does not charge rrp.
 

As for Hornby doing more direct being good, that won’t be the case when all the retailers are gone and you can’t buy all the rest of your model railway. Only people I can see being happy with what you suggest is the collectors…

 

Roy
 

 

[Andy Hayter]

It is not about discounts

 

it is about people who ordered (pre-ordered) in good faith from a Hornby listed distributor and have disproportionately been disadvantaged.

 

 

NO MORE Hornby PRE-OREDERS 

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Retro_man said:

 

The trade orders that have been cancelled were mostly placed in 2020 or earlier and cancelled following the adoption of the tier system in 2021. Hornby likely produced all that had been ordered and then when they cancelled the retailer orders were left with a surplus of product which they are now trying to unload via their own e-store and Amazon.

 

This is not going to end well for Hornby or for many retailers and ultimately for the consumer.

 

 

So you can relate the dates of the introduction of the tier system with the cancellation of retailers orders for all retailers affected?  Interesting. (or is it supposition on your part?).   So when was the tier system introduced?  That could become quite an important point because if it came along after Hornby had taken retail trade orders it might well confirm that they had taken orders for product they could not supply (why else would there be a tier system?).

 

And don't forget a reliable source has indicated in this thread that Hattons - as a specific example - did not take any retail customer pre-orders for product for which they did not place an order  with Hornby. 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 Yeah I know . It’s easy to fall into trap.  It does say on order sold by Amazon EURL. , so it’s not obvious . The front buffer beam fell off on opening the box and the reversing rod has now dropped off , but aside from that it’s fine ! 

So are you sending it back to Amazon for a replacement?  That could get interesting ...

[black and decker boy]

11 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Hattons don’t have bigger discounts / bargain prices than anybody else these days, probably the same price as your local shop that does not charge rrp.
 

As for Hornby doing more direct being good, that won’t be the case when all the retailers are gone and you can’t buy all the rest of your model railway. Only people I can see being happy with what you suggest is the collectors…

 

Roy
 

 

But that is the way retail is moving. Generation Y (and soon Gen Z) are all about online ordering & delivery to your door.

 

Once upon a time I could go to a shop to try on & maybe buy clothes. Names such as Debenhams, Oasis, Topman & Burtons. No if I want any of those brands I have to buy online. New entrants have come in, they are online only and always have been. They dominate the market (ASOS, Boohoo etc).

 

Manufacturers have to move with the times. Hornby haven’t gone 100% online, they’ve just rationalised their retail network. They are still making class 800 IETs, APTs and many other sought after models. We can still buy them from our local shop or online.

 

so what’s the issue?

 

As I said before, Hornby will still get my £

 

 

[Roy Langridge]

1 minute ago, black and decker boy said:

so what’s the issue?

 

 

Hornby announced products, told you to order from your stockist, then, at a later date, stop that stockist from honouring those preorders that it took and take back that stock to sell direct. Not hard to understand really.

 

Roy

[The Stationmaster]

40 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

There seems to be a lot of OTT rhetoric on here. I think a lot seems to be sour grapes that their bargain price from Hattons has gone.

 

I stopped using Hattons around the time they fell out with Bachman. All my preorders  (nothing really that formal) sit with my local shop. They don’t charge RRP and we get a cup of Tea & a chat when we collect.

 

In a world of batch production, internet sales etc, Hornby know they will sell out most lines. That’s what they are in business to do. They are not in business to sell at a discount, have stock sat in a warehouse for months unsold or worry about trying to maintain supply agreements with every single shop that may or may not sell model trains in low or high volume.

 

Hornby need to keep their eye on producing the right products each year, at the right standard getting them on sale for the best price they can. The cash will follow as we know they will sell. 
 

Only Hornby know the realities of their trading arrangements with the big box shifters in terms of the volumes and discounts involved and how COVID has perhaps changed the volumes that Hornby now sell direct or through the likes of Amazon. It is possible that they can make as much or more now than they ever did. If so, that’s good for the hobby as a stable business will invest more which may mean more new products, upgrades & innovations.

 

I for one will not be imposing any embargo on red boxes 

But they have got stock sat in a warehouse - and not just for moths (e.g Class 71 and J15).  Hattons ceased to be a deep discounter a long time ago - nowadays, and for a year or more past they have the same limit on discounting on new releases as everybody else in the retail trade (except Amazon it would seem from posts in this thread) although like anyone else once the time limit is past they can discount more deeply.  But nobody in the retail trade can discount very deeply because of Hornby's very tight trade discount levels.  The old days of Hattons flogging locos by the pallet load at a margin of about £1-2 each are long vanished - thank goodness.

 

Effectively the big box shifters have in any case vanished as far as Hornby are concerned - Rails walked away last year and now Hattons have seemingly had the rug pulled out from under them.  That's the two big box shifters gone as far as Hornby railways are concerned because compared to them everybody else are small fry in that market area.

 

If Hornby want to sell via Amazon or direct that is up to them but will they readily be able to comply with sale of goods legislation?    Has anybody returned an unsatisfactory or faulty Hornby model to Amazon and been provided with a replacement at no cost (including postage) to themselves?   Time will tell just how good that sales route is or isn't but you could hardly contact an Amazon retail outlet and say that whatever I bought from you doesn't work properly so can you replace it please, oh and did you test it before sending it to me?

Edited May 21, 2021 by The Stationmaster
Correct typos

[Matt C]

9 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Hornby announced products, told you to order from your stockist, then, at a later date, stop that stockist from honouring those preorders that it took and take back that stock to sell direct. Not hard to understand really.

 

Roy

But did they ? Or did they tell the stockist that they would NOT get what they had said they wanted but the stockist went with the view ' we have said we WANT 500 so we are taking pre orders for 500 expecting Hornby to then meet thier expectations ? Was it an accepted and CONFIRMED order. . Or a we want wish list  ?? That has subsequently been turned down ?  Is it Hornby's Job to tell YOU the stockists customer that the stockist is taking pre orders for stock it KNOWS it might not get ?

[Roy Langridge]

2 minutes ago, Matt C said:

But did they ? Or did they tell the stockist that they would NOT get what they had said they wanted but the stockist went with the view ' we have said we WANT 500 so we are taking pre orders for 500 expecting Hornby to then meet thier expectations ? Was it an accepted and CONFIRMED order. . Or a we want wish list  ?? That has subsequently been turned down ?  Is it Hornby's Job to tell YOU the stockists customer that the stockist is taking pre orders for stock it KNOWS it might not get ?

Read back and you will see some retailers did not get what they had ordered and that the rules have been changed on them. Hattons, as an example, are getting *no* preorder stock, that despite them being listed as a Hornby stockist and Hornby saying to pre-order from stockists.

 

Roy

[Matt C]

7 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But they have got stock sat in a warehouse - and not just for moths (e.g Class 71 and J15).  Hattons ceased to be a deep discounter a long time ago - nowadays, and for a year or more past they have the same limit on discounting on new releases as everybody else in the retail trade (except Amazon it would seem from posts in this thread) although like anyone else once the time limit is past they can discount more deeply.  But nobody in the retail trade can discount very deeply because of Hornby's very tight trade discount levels.  The old days of Hattons flogging locos by the pallet load at a margin of about £1-2 each are long vanished - thank goodness.

 

Effectively the big box shifters have in any case vanished as far as Hornby are concerned - Rails walked away last year and now Hattons have seemingly had the rug pulled out from under them.  That's the two big box shifters gone as far as Hornby railways are concerned because compared to them everybody else are small fry in that market area.

 

If Hornby want to sell via Amazon or direct that is up to them but will they readily be able to comply with sale of goods legislation?    Has anybody returned an unsatisfactory or faulty Hornby model to Amazon and been provided with a replacement at no cost (including postage) to themselves?   Time will tell just how good that sales route is or isn't but you could hardly contact an Amazon retail outlet and say that whatever I bought from you doesn't work properly so can you replace it please, oh and did you test it before sending it to me?

Have you ever returned something to Amazon ? They just replace or refund. There are Auction sites and clearance companies out there dedicated to clearing retail returns. Its big business and for the likes of Anazon a numbers game, they dont repair etc its replace or refund and then clearance  'bought as seen' through one of the clearance houses. No doubt an agreement with the original supplier over the cost

[black and decker boy]

16 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

 

If Hornby want to sell via Amazon or direct that is up to them but will they readily be able to comply with sale of goods legislation?    Has anybody returned an unsatisfactory or faulty Hornby model to Amazon and been provided with a replacement at no cost (including postage) to themselves?   Time will tell just how good that sales route is or isn't but you could hardly contact an Amazon retail outlet and say that whatever I bought from you doesn't work properly so can you replace it please, oh and did you test it before sending it to me?

If you have a faulty item, there is no guarantee that you will get a replacement from any stockist as once it’s sold out, you are only going to get a refund. That is the reality of batch production.

 

The world has changed. Shopping habits have changed. Few care now if it comes from Amazon or a local shop or a U.K. wide big retailer, they want cost & convenience. Amazon will refund a faulty product. Let’s face it, none of the box shifters tested locos before shipping.

 

The days of J R Hartley leafing through the yellow pages and then ringing round various shops for the book on Fly Fishing / R101 Signal Box etc, for a great bang in U.K., are long gone. Type a few words into Google, pick the cheapest / fastest shopping option, enter card details and jobs a good un.  That is the reality of 2021 shopping. 
 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by black and decker boy

[Matt C]

3 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Read back and you will see some retailers did not get what they had ordered and that the rules have been changed on them. Hattons, as an example, are getting *no* preorder stock, that despite them being listed as a Hornby stockist and Hornby saying to pre-order from stockists.

 

Roy

I know what your saying Roy, but are orders with Hornby actually confirmed orders ? Not until Hornby actually CONFIRM them,  till then its what a company would LIKE to order. As I understand it, It seams to have been the way Hornby have operated for awhile ?  I really feel sorry for the small guys caught up in this  but if for some reason they don't meet the particular critera to be placed in a teir then unfortunately they fall foul the same as the big boys and Hornby would be wide open to litigation if they treated them differently

[Roy Langridge]

Just now, Matt C said:

I know what your saying Roy, but are orders with Hornby actually confirmed orders ? Not until Hornby actually CONFIRM them,  till then its what a company would LIKE to order. As I understand it, It seams to have been the way Hornby have operated for awhile ?  I really feel sorry for the small guys caught up in this  but if for some reason they don't meet the particular critera to be placed in a teir then unfortunately they fall foul the same as the big boys and Hornby would be wide open to litigation if they treated them differently

Yep, but it is not just retailers that are getting shafted by this, it is Hornby’s customer that is also suffering, which is not good business sense. I have no issue with Hornby changing the rules per se, but to do it retrospectively and without communicating this to the customer was a big mistake.
 

Roy

[The Stationmaster]

A comment on customer service and speaking from years of experience in the front line of dealing with customers of all sorts both in person and in correspondence.  Firstly the vast majority of people raising issues and making complaints are intelligent beings.  And while there will very often be a veil of anger fronting their moans and grumbles in the overwhelming majority of cases behind that veil there will be someone prepared to listen to reason if the points they are making are dealt with and explained in an adult manner and are not dismissed with the likes of 'Standard Response No 7B' or whatever.

 

In fact in many cases the anger and frustration can very often turn not only understanding but even to sympathy for those having to deal with the situation when things are explained to them in language they can understand.  Give them the brush-off, give them the pat standard responses. and almost inevitably all you will do is add to their sense of anger by indicating that you don't really care about their problem and you just want them off your back.  Regrettably lots of 'customer service' departments don't seem to have been trained or equipped to deal with things in that way but some very definitely take a genuinely responsive and helpful approach and give even complainers a higher opinion of that company.;

 

So in reality brush-off communications which explain little or nothing work against a company's goodwill and often cause even greater resentment among the complainants than existed before they got in touch.  Careful measured replies addressing the points raised might sometimes be embarrassing for the company but they do a lot more for customer goodwill that virtually ignoring what a complainant had to .say.

 

Worst of all on many occasions is probably to say nothing because then you get the worst of all worlds.  It can be taken to imply various things ranging from 'they obviously don't care about customers' to 'what are they hiding' or even to 'why aren't they prepared to admit that somebody in the company got it wrong'.    And  sometimes even worse is to put up the wrong spokesman or woman of the sort who has only to open their mouth to create even more distrust or who comes out with things which events have shown are patently incorrect or they are all too obviously economical with the truth.