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20 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I do know I'm not going to be pre-ordering any Hornby locomotives directly from them ...

 

Al.

So just got perspective, do you preorder from:

Accurascale

Revolution

SLW

Realtrack

Cavalex

Planet Industrials

KR Models

 

If so, why is placing an order directly with Hornby any different?

 

(I happily buy direct from the top 6, no7 isn’t yet doing anything I need). I have also bought trains from Hornby and Amazon. I also buy from my preferred small model shop in NE Manchester.

 

Not all new entrants have wide spread retail support. Many prefer direct sales only (and certainly whilst they establish a foothold). If we are to blacklist Hornby then are we expected to Blacklist all these too?

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30 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Nothing will change it, just vote with your feet and move on, life is too short to change things you cannot change.

 

 

Agreed; life is too short.

I am already allergic to Amazon, Apple and other large entities seeking world domination!

I have unsubscribed from Hornby's mailing list.

Best to vote with one's feet.

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1 hour ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

IF they don't want extra custom, then they don't need to supply a "trunk" facility  -  it is up to them.

 

.

And you're assuming that all the model railway shops are awash with money to spend on empty space.

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1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Its a corporate thing unfortunately.

my local garden centre had everything garden, plus a specialist food shopping mall.

Anything local, artisan, craft, home made indeed even foods you remember as a kid and never saw again..,this was where you got it. Fresh produce was always the best and hand pick.

After Christmas it was taken over by a corporate garden centre chain, and the whole food mall was replaced by a Sainsburys concession.

 

You can just imagine the local reaction to that, its been better than that district council meeting that went viral on zoom.

Nothing will change it, just vote with your feet and move on, life is too short to change things you cannot change.

 

 

 

A common story, I fear.

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1 hour ago, black and decker boy said:

----- snipped

If so, why is placing an order directly with Hornby any different?

-- snipped ---

 

The whole point, for me at any rate, in pre-ordering via a 3rd party is that the chosen supplier offers a Value Added Extra service that Hornby direct don't. The price of getting someone who has done it before to fit a DCC chip is low enough that I find paying that better than the angst of getting some manufacturers model body shells off/back on. (I have done it - can do it - prefer to pay someone else).

 

I buy local when I can, but the range stocked is often limited.

 

Edited by john new
Typos corrected
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1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Its a corporate thing unfortunately.

my local garden centre had everything garden, plus a specialist food shopping mall.

Anything local, artisan, craft, home made indeed even foods you remember as a kid and never saw again..,this was where you got it. Fresh produce was always the best and hand pick.

After Christmas it was taken over by a corporate garden centre chain, and the whole food mall was replaced by a Sainsburys concession.

 

You can just imagine the local reaction to that, its been better than that district council meeting that went viral on zoom.

Nothing will change it, just vote with your feet and move on, life is too short to change things you cannot change.

 

 

 

Yes that happened at my local branch of Dobbies at Braehead in Renfrewshire, they ripped out the specialist food shopping mall and replaced it with a Sainsburys concession and they got shot down in flames on Social Media when they announced it- thinking that people would like it, and of course they didn't.  

 

The irony is that there is a branch of Sainsburys, and a very large branch at that, not even 500 yards away in the retail park opposite.  

 

 

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12 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

It is their choice  -  people are attracted by good customer service.

 

But how much extra business would it bring in? Would this compensate for the extra space they would need to rent? My local shop is the size of a living room. He could offer a trunk service, only by closing the shop by not letting anyone in the door.

 

If we look at Birmingham - floor space is £190 per square foot per year. If you allocate a very modest 5 by 5ft space for "trunk", that costs £4750 per year. Assuming a 33% markup, that means trunk has got to bring in £15,000 of business each year just for the rent. How many shops can honestly say that it would? It's a commercial decision. Hattons have a warehouse and are in an industrial park to their square foot rent will (probably) be lower, changing the financial equation.

 

It's not down to evil model shops not offering customer service, it's more complex than that.

 

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2 minutes ago, steven156 said:

Yes that happened at my local branch of Dobbies at Braehead in Renfrewshire, they ripped out the specialist food shopping mall and replaced it with a Sainsburys concession and they got shot down in flames on Social Media when they announced it- thinking that people would like it, and of course they didn't.  

 

Social media doesn't pay the bills. Plenty of towns have raised petitions against new stores, but when the stores are built, there are plenty of customers, presumably including some who had petitioned for the very store they used not to be built. 600 people petitioned against Tesco in Stourport in 2007, but unless it's standing empty, they seem to have found some shoppers.

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1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Social media doesn't pay the bills. Plenty of towns have raised petitions against new stores, but when the stores are built, there are plenty of customers, presumably including some who had petitioned for the very store they used not to be built. 600 people petitioned against Tesco in Stourport in 2007, but unless it's standing empty, they seem to have found some shoppers.

Putting a Sainsburys outlet into a Garden Centre when theres a Sainsburys Supermarket 500 yards away, and having to reduce significant amounts of fresh produce daily because they are not selling much of it before it comes close to its expiry date wont be paying many bills either.  

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Just now, steven156 said:

Putting a Sainsburys outlet into a Garden Centre when theres a Sainsburys Supermarket 500 yards away, and having to reduce significant amounts of fresh produce daily because they are not selling much of it before it comes close to its expiry date wont be paying many bills either.  

You have the advantage of seeing the accounts I assume. I don't.

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Due to Covid, we buy many different items from Amazon.  The home delivery is quick, easy and reasonably (health) risk free, but I had not thought of them as a source of mainstream models. 

 

Having sampled this thread today, I did look at Amazon but found that the prices for items in which I might be interested,  eg the A2/3, were significantly higher than some of the suppliers mentioned in the thread.  I don't know the ins and outs of the cancellation saga but, on today's experience, would have thought an Amazon presence would bring Hornby products to the attention of non-hobbyists without threatening those specialist suppliers.

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8 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

But how much extra business would it bring in? Would this compensate for the extra space they would need to rent? My local shop is the size of a living room. He could offer a trunk service, only by closing the shop by not letting anyone in the door.

 

If we look at Birmingham - floor space is £190 per square foot per year. If you allocate a very modest 5 by 5ft space for "trunk", that costs £4750 per year. Assuming a 33% markup, that means trunk has got to bring in £15,000 of business each year just for the rent. How many shops can honestly say that it would? It's a commercial decision. Hattons have a warehouse and are in an industrial park to their square foot rent will (probably) be lower, changing the financial equation.

 

It's not down to evil model shops not offering customer service, it's more complex than that.

 

.

 

Fine, don't provide this specific customer service, but when someone/some others do, then don't complain.

 

.

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1 minute ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

Fine, don't provide this specific customer service, but when someone/some others do, then don't complain.

 

.

 

You are the only one complaining. I was just trying to explain why not everyone could offer this, even if they wanted to.

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1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

You have the advantage of seeing the accounts I assume. I don't.

While not being a chartered accountant and having basic math skills, I used to work for Sainsburys in their produce deparment and my job was to mark down the short dated produce as part of my duties and being forced to attend team talks every week about how much the department lost due to waste and short life reductions, I would say I have a little bit of knowledge.  

 

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Just now, Phil Parker said:

 

You are the only one complaining.

.

 

Pardon ?  Where have I complained ?  I have merely pointed out a customer service that would attract me ( and I believe many others ).

 

Confusing customers' desires with "complaints" is a common British retailer problem.

 

.

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5 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Due to Covid, we buy many different items from Amazon.  The home delivery is quick, easy and reasonably (health) risk free, but I had not thought of them as a source of mainstream models. 

 

Having sampled this thread today, I did look at Amazon but found that the prices for items in which I might be interested,  eg the A2/3, were significantly higher than some of the suppliers mentioned in the thread.  I don't know the ins and outs of the cancellation saga but, on today's experience, would have thought an Amazon presence would bring Hornby products to the attention of non-hobbyists without threatening those specialist suppliers.

 

Yes Thane of Fife is currently £159.59, I bought one for £132 just a few days ago. 3 left in stock. (9 when I bought mine). I can't understand and dislike this method of pricing / selling.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-R3831-Thompson-Class-4-6-2/dp/B08485NFJ8

 

I am not a lover of Amazon but will buy from there occasionally if the price is right - my purchase was a pure impulse buy as my original pre order from Rails was cancelled. I do however buy of ebay, from ebay shops, and private bid items / buy it now items. I have no problems with ebay - and not just model railway items either.

 

The world is upside down at the moment.

 

Brit15

 

 

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5 hours ago, phil gollin said:

`

 

For other traders to profit from Hattons misfortune they need to do two things ;

 

1: Improve their websites, especially pre-orders.

 

2: (For me the most important) set up a "trunk" facility.   It is a relatively simple thing to do and is helpful to people who want near guaranteed delivery of more than a few item.    Yes, it needs some storage space and some logical, tidy mind - but it isn't rocket science (and it is customer friendly).

 

.

 

You are surely not suggesting that Hatton's website is up to scratch? It's awful!

 

First thing would be to separate S/H from new.

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4 hours ago, maico said:

 

Your letter to Mr. H was close to saying just that...

"Time was when I thought that your company's existence was important to the hobby in the UK. Now, I would happily see it go to the wall to let more competent people take over."

 

No doubt it will be filed under Bloviating: Mr. Angry from Tunbridge Wells...

The people at Hornby wear vintage bear hunting suits for protection in any case!

 

 

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Hi Maico,

 

You are right. I don't pull my punches in such correspondence. I never have and I am not about to start now. I have had more than a few "successes" but some failures as well.

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5 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

First thing would be to separate S/H from new.

 

It only takes an untick of checkbox to do that, not difficult and to be honest probably is beneficial to many to be able to see both.

 

Just to prove that when it comes to website design, you can't please everybody ;)


Roy

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11 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

First thing would be to separate S/H from new.

 

Why? If they're after a Heljan Hymek, for instance, why not give results which inc!ude a mint secondhand in addition to new? Offer the customer all the choices you can.

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33 minutes ago, scumcat said:

I agree this can work, but Hattons’s premises are no better than screwfix’s I took my boy there once he was so disappointed. Is this it ? he said. There was no ambience. They are not in this for the shop customer’s experience they forgot all about that when they left smithdown road.

 

I have not been to Hattons (despite being 50% a scouser) so I can't comment on their current set-up. I do recall others saying that it was a trade-counter set-up rather than a proper shop. My main experience of such a set-up is the guys in Poole, a great shop once you have found it.. 

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I have been a Hattons customer since my Tri-ang (remember them !!!!!) TT days in the 60's, the old on Smithdown Road.

 

I liked a trip out to their "new" shop, and it was superb when they had everything both new and second hand in newly built glass showcases, clearly priced and identified. The staff were always helpful also. I was a bit miffed when they closed it.

 

I have only visited their warehouse once, as others have said a dull experience however I still mail order occasionally from them.

 

The world is in constant change these days, and rarely for the better.

 

Brit15

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6 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I have not been to Hattons (despite being 50% a scouser) so I can't comment on their current set-up. I do recall others saying that it was a trade-counter set-up rather than a proper shop. My main experience of such a set-up is the guys in Poole, a great shop once you have found it.. 

 

You might want to avoid 3rd hand information then. I've been a couple of times and there were (it's shut at the moment due to Covid) many cases full of models, both new and second hand. OK, not the same as a shop that has been there for years and has built up a good quantity of "stuff" like Hereford Model Centre, but nothing like the trade-counter setup you describe.

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