New layout ideas

[DanielP]

Hello,

 

I'm about to start building my first layout. The main board will be 17x100 inches and I have the option to build it into an L with a narrow side extension of 12x128inches. My interests are BR diesels - 37, 47, 58, 60 hauling freight and Mk2 coaches and DMU 150, 153, etc. I've done a bit of playing with test tracks and I'd like to avoid tight curves and points because I don't like the look of the bogies sticking out too far. I'm happy to watch everything running at a slow/medium speeds. It will be a DCC layout but I'm not going to be able to afford lots of motorised points, at least not initially. 

 

Any and all track ideas gratefully received!

 

Peter.

 

 

[RobinofLoxley]

Just to offer a couple of things - if you worry about how the trains appear on the curves, since you have only one zone where there can be any with enough turning angle to be a problem, you could think about scenery elements there to disguise by blocking the sightline - bridges, cuttings, etc. In this case they could provide a natural break between two different railway scenes, things I dont usually discuss much. The other is that the slim long board could lend itself to a hidden fiddle yard at the end - they can be done vertically or horizontally. As to the actual track you put down Ill leave to others as theres a lot of knowledge about shapes of this kind....

 

And welcome to the forum btw

Edited February 10, 2021 by RobinofLoxley
welcome!

[B McG]

Welcome aboard! If you are to avoid tight radius curves you'll definitely need that optional fill.  If you were to use part of the 12 x 128 as a fiddle yard you should be able to squeeze in 6 lines using medium radius geometry.

[DanielP]

Thanks for those comments. On a smaller layout like this how important and useful is a dedicated fiddle yard vs  a scenic depot? I'm building it for my own enjoyment so I feel like the whole thing is the fiddle yard! I don't think it will ever get to the point of having a complete lower and upper levels. 

[ITG]

With what you describe your interests as - locos, freight, coaches, DMUs - if you don’t have a fiddle yard, where will the traffic being going to and coming from? I guess potentially you could have station A and station B, but with only 12” width on one board, that will limit capacity by the time you include scenery. At least with a fiddle yard, you can ignore scenery, and thus increase track capacity accordingly.

 

on the other hand, if you opt for a scenic depot in one leg, with presumably a station in the other, your main function will be shunting, which may not suit your stock aspirations.

[scottystitch]

Depending on the length of your trains, you might want to consider the use of cassettes, rather than a fiddle yard.  The cassettes can "plug" in to a track or tracks that simply leave teh scene past a suitable scene blocker.

 

Cassettes can be constructed quite cheaply and elegently, and don't require expensive and space consuming turnouts.

 

Best

 

Scott.

Edited February 11, 2021 by scottystitch

[Zomboid]

9 hours ago, DanielP said:

Thanks for those comments. On a smaller layout like this how important and useful is a dedicated fiddle yard vs  a scenic depot? I'm building it for my own enjoyment so I feel like the whole thing is the fiddle yard! I don't think it will ever get to the point of having a complete lower and upper levels. 

Depends on how you intend to operate it. Personally I don't think a FY is necessary for fun operation in a lot of scenarios, but I think I'm an outlier in that respect.

 

It'll represent the "rest of the world", which is probably needed in some sense if you're building a passenger terminus.

 

If you're building a freight shunting layout then you can operate between the times that the train arrives on scene and when it departs, whilst performing the arrival and departure moves with your 0-5-0 switchers. Personally I'm happy enough with that approach, as you get a lot of additional scenic space, which would just be plywood plains that you'd use for 2 minutes either side of the fun shunting part. That doesn't really align with what you've started as your interests, though...

[ColinK]

Years ago I had a similar space, station and sidings on the wider board, fiddle yard with a quarry loader in front of it.  Was really enjoyable. Sorry, I haven’t got a trackplan.

 

If you have a fiddle yard, Peco loco lifts are a good way to move engines from one end of the train to the other.

 

If you are just having a fiddle yard, there is no reason why you can’t make it a bit scenic by ballasting and adding a bit of grass. Would make the layout look tidier too.

 

Cheap ways of changing points is bike spokes, wire in tube, I’ve even used spare bits of rail with a bent paperclip soldered to it.

 

 

[Chimer]

With 8' or so for a terminus, assuming you go that way, you're realistically looking at 3 or 4 coach trains so the fiddle yard needs less than half of the long narrow board (especially if you use cassettes rather than a fan of points), which gives you scope for a bit of "trains in the countryside stuff" between the curve away from the terminus and the FY.  Not sure what you were thinking of when you talked about "complete upper and lower levels" though ...... multi-level in that space looks very tricky .....

[DanielP]

5 hours ago, Chimer said:

With 8' or so for a terminus, assuming you go that way, you're realistically looking at 3 or 4 coach trains so the fiddle yard needs less than half of the long narrow board (especially if you use cassettes rather than a fan of points), which gives you scope for a bit of "trains in the countryside stuff" between the curve away from the terminus and the FY.  Not sure what you were thinking of when you talked about "complete upper and lower levels" though ...... multi-level in that space looks very tricky .....

Multi-level isn't in my plans, but there was a reference earlier to horizontal and vertical fiddle yards which I assumed meant multi level but maybe I misunderstood. I'm happy modelling shorter trains - I have purchased 2 of the Hornby DRS Mk2 coaches as would have been seen at Norwich. 

[Chimer]

I think @RobinofLoxley meant a series of tracks mounted one above another on a contraption which slides vertically up the wall so each track in turn lines up (horizontally) with the approach track.  A company called Nelevation (https://www.nelevation.com) sold them commercially for a while but (last I heard on here) ran into production / supply difficulties.  Nice concept though, and I suppose some people might be able to rig up a home-made version.  The idea of all your stock peeling off the wall in one go if the rawlplugs failed would worry me a bit .......

[DanielP]

Wow, quite a contraption! I'm afraid the loft eaves along the narrow side will make installing it a bit tricky...

[Harlequin]

2 hours ago, DanielP said:

Wow, quite a contraption! I'm afraid the loft eaves along the narrow side will make installing it a bit tricky...

“Loft eaves”. Tell us more.

Does the roof slope very close to the long thin arm? How much of the width has enough clearance to actually run trains?

Are there roof trusses throughout the space?

Is the loft insulated?

Edited February 11, 2021 by Harlequin

[DanielP]

Yes, it is a room built in the loft space of a terrace house. The wall on the right of the layout is vertical up to about 29 inches, I'll put the base board just below this so the trains can run up to the wall. If I do a back scene print it won't be vertical on that side. The top edge of the layout is against the gable end of the house but uses only half the width due to space taken for stairs.

[DCB]

I would put a nice curved fillet in around 30" radius.   its about 2" per track and 2" per platform width in OO so there is space for 4 platform roads 6ft long, loco plus 5 coaches and two platforms plus a bit of scenery or sidings with space for a bit of a loco depot in the corner but there is precious little to be done with the 12" wide bit apart from as a FY or cassette yard.  Maybe a scenic cassette yard half the length (6ft? where one or two tracks lift out as cassettes, that works as a freight yard or carriage sidings but doesn't really give anywhere for trains to go. an extra 6" would make a lot of difference.  Its a nice space for a steam era BLT with BLT Locos and short coaches and 4 wheel wagons  but those diesels just eat length.

Edited February 12, 2021 by DavidCBroad

[Flying Pig]

20 hours ago, Chimer said:

With 8' or so for a terminus, assuming you go that way, you're realistically looking at 3 or 4 coach trains so the fiddle yard needs less than half of the long narrow board (especially if you use cassettes rather than a fan of points), which gives you scope for a bit of "trains in the countryside stuff" between the curve away from the terminus and the FY. 

 

This would be my thinking, though you could probably just fit a long siding behind the main for handling a block traffic.  You might find this thread helpful when planning freight facilities, as there were a few general yards surviving into your period.

 

 

[DanielP]

That thread looks very interesting. I'm wondering about something very loosely based on Workington - small passenger station and goods terminal - although I suspect it never saw a 58 or 60.

 

@DavidCBroad The length of the base boards is fixed by the walls but the depth could actually be increased. The reason I kept them small is that I don't have any building experience and I wanted to limit the amount of scenics and track-laying I need to do so that it is achievable around my day job and can actually get finished!

[Rivercider]

The space available is similar to what I could possibly use in our spare room,

and I have a developed idea in my head for a layout that will probably never get built.

 

To justify more freight traffic I would assume an important freight customer is located nearby,

traffic to and from there must reverse at the terminus, perhaps with two parallel single lines entering

the fiddle yard, with the freight line apparently diverging off scene.

The station would be two or three platform roads, one short one for a DMU or vans, but with the provision

to run round a lengthy freight train. A couple of stabling sidings to hold a DMU and loco or two.

 

Severn Beach near Bristol would have been my inspiration, in the 1980s it was a two platform terminus with a couple of sidings for stabling freight stock and a goods run-round to access the large ICI plant at Severnside,

this saw a variety of traffic, and loco types.

The real Severn Beach never took off as a resort, but in my world it would have been more important.

The regular passenger service of 150s and 153s for the real place would supplemented by occasional loco-hauled by 31/4 or 37 from South Wales, and perhaps Portsmouth or Taunton. I am imagining that the 'Monkey Specials' to Bristol Zoo continued to run and terminated there. 

 

cheers

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, Rivercider said:

To justify more freight traffic I would assume an important freight customer is located nearby,

traffic to and from there must reverse at the terminus, perhaps with two parallel single lines entering

the fiddle yard,

 

I like this. Hints of rationalisation (e.g. one of the lines having been singled) would be very much of the period.  You could easily relocate to whatever part of the country interests you - any industrial area with bits of former lines remaining would work, West Cumbria included.  I think a slightly larger station than Severn Beach could be accommodated in this scenario.

 

Edited to add - Severn Beach was a former through station on a line that was cut back, so that's a possibility too.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Flying Pig

[Guest]

On 10/02/2021 at 15:00, DanielP said:

I'm about to start building my first layout. The main board will be 17x100 inches and I have the option to build it into an L with a narrow side extension of 12x128inches. My interests are BR diesels - 37, 47, 58, 60 hauling freight and Mk2 coaches and DMU 150, 153, etc. I've done a bit of playing with test tracks and I'd like to avoid tight curves and points because I don't like the look of the bogies sticking out too far. I'm happy to watch everything running at a slow/medium speeds. It will be a DCC layout but I'm not going to be able to afford lots of motorised points, at least not initially. 

Well, from the quoted DMUs locos I imagine you're modelling c.1990-c.2000. I also imagine you're in to 'Nottinghamshire' modelling too? Possibly Didcot-area... However, you don't have to limit yourself to '2000' or a particular area. The privatisation and future structure of the UK railways means you could extend the finish year - imagine you're a small or spot-hire TOC like Advenza, FM Rail, HNRC and WCRC post-privatisation. You have your own roster regardless of the liveries.

 

Like Chimer I would suggest a terminus, but on the long section. However, this does not automatically exclude something on the shorter section to hide the fiddle yard. Have a look at Smethurst Junction (http://hgdmrs.org.uk/hazel-grove-district-model-railway-society/smethurst-junction/) - different shape, but my ideas are similar to the broad principle of the layout. Perhaps an industry that only requires a couple of VGAs or a wagon of similar length that is shunted to the fiddle yard by a C8/9? Perhaps just a couple of tracks that go 'off-scene' to depict a former yard with an engineer's wagon or two heavily weathered, surrounded by overgrowth? Neglect is more interesting to model (gives you a chance to learn and show your skills) and will give you an opportunity to be creative with the story behind the layout. Maybe a wagon repair depot? Perhaps go for a 'sea-side' terminus like Heysham/Morecombe? Dudley Road (I think its is) on YouTube is a small layout, but I don't notice its small because its highly detailed and the trains are short.

 

I'm toying with the idea of a 'what if the line to Bacup were still around or reopened in the 1980s-1990s?' Passenger trains from/to Manchester by 101s and 142s and short trains of high value cotton hauled by 31s and 37s in vans to Arpley via Bury, the Castleton curve and Manchester Victoria. I could have it 'current' as a reopening due to the present Govt's 'building back better' or 'levelling up' agenda (although this scenario might be just passenger). I could even try and find images of the former coal terminal at Rawtenstall and model that instead. I have lots of ideas and precious little decisiveness.

 

Don't make it silly with a C60 hauling two 7-plank wagons and two BR Green C8s top-and-tail with three mk 4s, but there's also no need/possibility to have it precisely like the real thing. This is 'railway [and] modelling'.