Bachmann 4 TC lighting issues

[Butler]

I am sure that this subject has been covered before, but I don’t know where to search.

i have just purchased a Bachmann 4 TC , and have fitted a Hattons 21 pin 6 function decoder. The headcode and tail lights work but I cant get interior to work. They work on DC. I am using a Bachmann Dynamis Ultima. Normally the lights work on fun 1 and/ or the backlight switch.

i have checked all switches under are on, and the carriages are orientated correctly. Can anybody point me or offer help

thanks 

[RFS]

On mine with a Lenz decoder the lights are on F5.  Try the various function keys if F5 does not work for you.

[Butler]

Ok i’ll Try that, thought I had. Why don’t the manufactures provide this info. 

Thanks

[London Southwark]

Mine is function 3 for the Bachmann 4tc but for the cep it's function 0&1 for the lights but they have the same type of decoder check all the functions. 

[pheaton]

Mine is function 3 for the 4tc as well and I use the Gauge-master 6 function decoder

[Butler]

Thanks all, but tried the lot! No joy. I’d take out the chip, but I’ve read you shouldn’t do that as it will eventually blow the lights? Got the similar issue with 4 CEP, but the first 2 coaches work,but last 2 plus end lights don’t! I think that’s aknown problem with early Bachmann Cep’s

[RFS]

Your problem with the 4-CEP sounds like a defective coupling between the second and third coaches. I would first make sure the two trailer coaches are the right way round as per the instructions, and if necessary replace the coupling. 

 

You could try asking the question of Hatton's. but I don't know why the 4-TC lights don't work. Are you sure the decoder is 6-function? With a 4-function decoder they won't work. 

[Butler]

Ahh, maybe it was a 4 function I fitted, just checked my order from Hattons, might have fitted thevwrong one. It doesn’t actually say on it!

thank you all. Very helpful

b

[Butler]

But what about the 2HAP, that seems to bring on both headcodes and interior on 1 function, can they be separated?

The book just says F0. Although on DC they can be separated by switches.

B

 

[RFS]

The 2-EPB was supposed to work the same as the 4-CEP but Bachmann messed up and both head codes and lights work on F0. The 2-HAP has the same arrangement using just F0, but with the addition of switches underneath to turn off interior lights to leave head codes working. 

 

Hatton's first 21-pin decoder was 4-function, but it's now described as 6-function but also as version 2. Sounds like you might have the version 1 ....

 

You actually need 5 functions for the 4-TC as follows:

 

F0 for head codes. This actually counts as 2 functions as the lights are directional.

F1 allows you to turn off the head codes at  number 1 end (ie the end connected to the 33)

F2 allows you to turn off the head codes at number 2 end

F3 is for interior lights.

 

On my Lenz decoder, F3 is shunt mode, and F4 disables CV3/4 so it's F5 that operates the lights. When I first got my 4-TC, it did take me a little while to work that out ....

[Butler]

Thank you so much, that’s so helpful. I will get another decoder , I could well have the wrong one.

i wasn’t even going to bother with lights, but you know, when you get in to it , you can’t leave it. Thanks again.

Brian 

[Nigelcliffe]

Decent decoders allow you to change the function keys to "whatever you would like them to be".   Decent decoders come from decoder manufacturers, such as ESU, Lenz, Zimo, etc., and the manufacturer offers a proper manual.  

 

Other decoders might be more limited in what's possible.  But, it should be possible to move features to a different key so they are consistent across multiple different models, and compatible with the way handsets (throttles) work. 

 

 

 

 

[Butler]

I can’t believe that Kernow sell this 4 TC, with no mention that it needs  a 6 function decoder. I ordered them at the same time! Ah well. c’est la vie’ as they say in my host country!

[Butler]

Still got problems with the interior lights on this 4TC . I’ve now fitted a 6 function decoder, but it’s exactly the same. All other functions are as stated by RFS a few posts back, front and rear switcheable and reversible but no interior .Refitted blank back in and tested on DC lights function ok. 

Big question??? Does it matter which is Driving Car A  or B , would that affect it , I somehow doubt it.

ive checked all cars round the right way. I’d suspect the inter carriage connections, but A the head and tail work, and B the Brake car, with the decoder in doesn’t work. Anybody got any ideas?

thanks

B

[Nigelcliffe]

There are two 21pin standards, and they're different.   They differ on how the high function numbers are wired, which will be the interior lights.   And thus whether they will work on decoder-A or decoder-B.    

 

One would hope there wasn't this mess with two versions of a standard, but there is.  One would hope model train makers were clear about which standard was in use on their models, but they're not.  And one would hope decoder makers were clear about things, but though a few are clear,  most are not.  

 

So...    How have Bachmann wired it ?   This thread, says "logic levels" on the lighting:

So, that means a decoder which does Logic-Level output on the higher function outputs.   Obvious makers are ESU, Zimo, and Digitrax because all allow their non-sound decoders to switch between "logic level" and "full-power" by a CV change.  Most of Gaugemaster's current decoders (mentioned in the thread) are Digitrax.  

 

This website has a good summary table (well down) of the logic vs full-power outputs of different decoders, and a good overview of the sorry mess that its the 21-pin decoder "standard". 

 

http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/21mtcconnector.html

 

 

  

What decoder have you tried ? 

 

 

 

-  Nigel

 

[ColinK]

Hope you don’t mind me asking, I’ve a 4TC and haven’t yet fitted it with a (non-sound) decoder.  So, which decoder should I fit in it?

[Butler]

Once again thank you for your help, I’m afraid I used a cheapie Hattons 21pin 6 function decoder, not thinking( stupidly) that it would need anything special just for lights. 

[Butler]

Could I not just take out the decoder? As it is an unpowered unit. I think I read that it won’t do it any good! But why does it have to be so complex for just lighting? Bachmann and Kernow don’t say any of this stuff on their websites! Nor do they inform you that you need a loco on the service track to program it. It falls to the advice of you clever guys on this site to help, and thank you all for that.

B

[Kaput]

My 4TC has a Dapol Imperium 1 in it - works all functions perfectly fine.

[Butler]

Great so I will try the Dapol Imperium 1 decoder. Does anybody have any other comments on that or better suggestions. No disrespect to Kaput, just want to get it right 3rd time?

[Butler]

Hi

So can I get an idea of what decoders have been fitted that work on this set?

I have Imperium 1 , and Lenz, ESU and digitrax, and Guagemaster ( which is digitrax) ?

all as I hear work fine on this set.

thanks to all

B

[50033]

I’ve gone for a Zimo MX686 but had issues with the lighting. Something to do with logic outputs. All resolved now  

 

[Butler]

I’ve just heard from Kernow this week they stated quite clearly that “ The 4 TC DOES NOT need a loco on the service track to function correctly, and it’s only the NCE Power cab that requires it. They use  Prodigy, and a Bachmann Dynamis and they both program the 4TC fine as with all other systems they’ve tried”

I havnt tried it yet on its own, but will do tomorow, see if it works. 

B

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[Erixtar1992]

Need a 21 pin decoder that has logic level output on aux3&4.

 

[Butler]

Ok thanks, but how do I know which decoders have that?

B