robmcg Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Les1952 said: Thompson's Pacifics had faults that Gresley's didn't largely related to the amount of boiler and therefore weight swinging around in front of the first pair of driving wheels. They also didn't have the same elegance as Gresley's. However an A2/3 was rostered onto a very heavy ECML freight that a 9F couldn't cope with- provided it could start the train it could keep it going faster than the 9F and was quicker up Stoke bank with it. The A1/1 was a bit of a failure by ECML standards, running comparatively low mileages between shopping and spending a bit too long in works when it did, but compare its statistics after rebuilding with locos from other railways and the picture changes- it compares well with a King, for instance. The Thompson A2s transferred to the Caledonian late in their careers also seemed better thought of that the A4s that went- strong enough to compare with the Duchesses and one less set of inside valve gear to oil round. The A4s suffered from being at a shed that didn't understand the conjugated valve gear, a pointer to why the last survivors were the Aberdeen allocated ones. Not all bad- not really top link locos but the LNER lines needed strong mixed-traffic engines that could keep a heavy freight going at a high average speed for mile after mile. For instance there were eighteen daily paths in each direction requiring a fitted freight to keep up a 60mph average from Doncaster to Peterborough (source- Peter Coster's books). That needs big locos that can run quickly without the kudos of having a streamlined express behind them... Les Well said! Thompson designed the Pacifics to burn bad coal, haul 500 tons at speed, and use standardised parts and eventually boilers... all common sense in 1941-46 when he was boss, and pretty much how it all came to pass with the mix of Gresley and Thompson/Peppercorn through the 50s.. If the ride and the frames had been improved.... and steam circuits. I wonder what Chapelon thought of Thompson's ideas? By 1955 the game was over though. edit; p.s. incredible to think that A2/2 CotN's frames were laid just after D-Day and the engine completed a couple of months later in 1944. Now THAT was Britain at war..... Edited February 12, 2021 by robmcg 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, davidw said: Wasn't the proposed Streamlined A1 a Peppercorn design? Probably, as it had the standard cylinder position. However technically it was created on Thompson's watch. Bernard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, robmcg said: incredible to think that A2/2 CotN's frames were laid just after D-Day and the engine completed a couple of months later in 1944. Now THAT was Britain at war..... Incredible to think that Bulleid got away with building express engines by calling them mixed traffic engines while Britain was at war. Bernard 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said: Incredible to think that Bulleid got away with building express engines by calling them mixed traffic engines while Britain was at war. Bernard I think that's a bit of a myth as certain other railways were still building Express Passenger locomotives without comment. The LMS built two batches of Duchesses totalling 13 locomotives and started the rebuilding of the Royal Scots which were virtually new locomotives, about thirty or so had been completed before WWII had finished. They also got the other railways to build them some 8Fs. Which was nice of them. Jason Edited February 13, 2021 by Steamport Southport 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Turpin Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) With regard to the Thompson Pacifics, I too have come around to rather liking them, mainly because they were just part of the scene. Anything different is bound to engender some sort of admiration. I have also read that Bullied got his way because he was a bit of a charmer and more of a people person than Thompson, who was, from what I've read from people who were there at the time, much more difficult to like. I wouldn't have taken to someone who had the wooden panels in his office removed and replaced with glass so that he could keep an eye on the staff in the drawing department! Now I don't want to start an argument about Thompson's personality here, but there is a lot written about personality friction at the time that we can all check out if we wish. Indeed these were difficult times for all those involved and one wouldn't wish to have been in their shoes. I also have read somewhere that the job of CME was actually offered to Bullied before it was passed to Thompson but that he turned it down. One can only imagine how different things might have been. Edited February 13, 2021 by Dick Turpin 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: I think that's a bit of a myth as certain other railways were still building Express Passenger locomotives without comment. The LMS built two batches of Duchesses totalling 13 locomotives and started the rebuilding of the Royal Scots which were virtually new locomotives, about thirty or so had been completed before WWII had finished. They also got the other railways to build them some 8Fs. Which was nice of them. Jason I think the most important word there Jason is "still" To come up with a design that had so many new ideas on both the actual parts and their construction was pushing things to the extreme. Not many other people could have got away with it. With the LMS it was a case of building the same as before with no additional use of design teams. Bernard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Lesson one;- How to wind-up 'Gresley Extremists'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) It looks great with the matt black smokebox and light weathering over the top of the boiler and down the sides ... Dulled green suddenly becomes acceptable! Al. Edited February 13, 2021 by atom3624 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 13 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said: Incredible to think that Bulleid got away with building express engines by calling them mixed traffic engines while Britain was at war. Bernard Yep, that's why they were given 6 foot 2 inch diameter driving wheels!!!??? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, bike2steam said: Yep, that's why they were given 6 foot 2 inch diameter driving wheels!!!??? I see he has even managed to con you all these years later. Bernard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: They also got the other railways to build them some 8Fs. Which was nice of them. The GWR returned the compliment, by pinching some design features from the 8F. Mind you, they probably still regarded Stanier as one of their own... 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 12/02/2021 at 12:44, The Black Hat said: I'll just park this here then... I haven’t got a problem with those beauties at all, we were talking about the Pacific’s! I’m sure I didn’t need to emphasise that, did I!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said: I haven’t got a problem with those beauties at all, we were talking about the Pacific’s! I’m sure I didn’t need to emphasise that, did I!? Another borrowing from an Idea by Stanier.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted February 13, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Hroth said: The GWR returned the compliment, by pinching some design features from the 8F. Mind you, they probably still regarded Stanier as one of their own... More likely the denizens of Swindon were shocked to find out he was still alive after disappearing into the Dead Lands beyond Blunsdon (or Highworth for those of a particularly cosmopolitan outlook). Possibly why some still look askance at the Counties - using those 8F flanging blocks was perilously close to necromancy. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 48 minutes ago, Flying Pig said: More likely the denizens of Swindon were shocked to find out he was still alive after disappearing into the Dead Lands beyond Blunsdon (or Highworth for those of a particularly cosmopolitan outlook). Possibly why some still look askance at the Counties - using those 8F flanging blocks was perilously close to necromancy. Oh come on, the GWR knew of Birkenhead! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2750Papyrus Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Email from Pen and Sword this morning to advise of the publication of "Thompson, His Life and Locomotives". Should be a good read. Their website mentions a similar book about Peppercorn, due this summer. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted February 13, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Hroth said: Oh come on, the GWR knew of Birkenhead! That would be those funny bu**ers up London (a large town somewhere beyond Shrivenham). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 5 hours ago, atom3624 said: It looks great with the matt black smokebox and light weathering over the top of the boiler and down the sides ... Dulled green suddenly becomes acceptable! Al. Hi Al looks good a big improvement did you air brush the weathering over the boiler? Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Hi David, for the last 20 years I've been telling myself to get an airbrush, and practice ... never worked. It's only rattle cans - Humbrol - warmed a little first. Matt black over the top; dark green, brown and matt black on the sides - gentle, short bursts. I did mask off the front buffer beam and the cab windows - all very basic stuff. Thanks anyway. Al. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, atom3624 said: Hi David, for the last 20 years I've been telling myself to get an airbrush, and practice ... never worked. It's only rattle cans - Humbrol - warmed a little first. Matt black over the top; dark green, brown and matt black on the sides - gentle, short bursts. I did mask off the front buffer beam and the cab windows - all very basic stuff. Thanks anyway. Al. Hi Al Thanks for the reply Certainly a big improvement on that hideous green that Hornby produced. If I may make one comment regarding your lamps. The lamps you have on the front buffer beam, are they Springside lamps as they do look quite large If you haven’t seen them before have a look and Lanarkshire Model Services lamps, they do two types for LNER and they are superb and the correct size in scale. And much cheaper than the Springside ones. They look much better on the loco, they are a bit fiddly if you want to drill a small hole in them to fit over the lamp irons but well worth it for looks. I have them on all my locos now, I first saw them on Tony Wright’s thread. Regards David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) Here is my model of A1/1 Great Northern. It was converted from a Hornby A3 using Graeme King's superb resin parts and Morgan Gilbert's etched valve gear. Morgan did the conversion and the painting. I subsequently weathered it. After a house move my 1960 ish ECML is being built in the attic. Edited February 13, 2021 by davidw Add photos 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, davidw said: Here is my model of A1/1 Great Northern. It was converted from a Hornby A3 using Graeme King's superb resin parts and Morgan Gilbert's etched valve gear. Morgan did the conversion and the painting. I subsequently weathered it. After a house move my 1960 ish ECML is being built in the attic. Putting aside asthetics as a model it is excellent and really captures the bulk of the original. Though I never saw it in the flesh. Far too young and wrong side of the country! No idea why this picture was added again. Edited February 13, 2021 by davidw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: They also got the other railways to build them some 8Fs. Which was nice of them. Jason Weren't they part of the WD requirements for home, and abroad?? Edited February 13, 2021 by bike2steam 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, davidw said: Here is my model of A1/1 Great Northern. It was converted from a Hornby A3 using Graeme King's superb resin parts and Morgan Gilbert's etched valve gear. Morgan did the conversion and the painting. I subsequently weathered it. After a house move my 1960 ish ECML is being built in the attic. Nice - but talk about 'showing a red rag to a bull.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 21 hours ago, Les1952 said: However an A2/3 was rostered onto a very heavy ECML freight that a 9F couldn't cope with- Les That's interesting as they were only classified as 7F?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now