Shapeways Miniatures

[Guest]

Has anyone used any rolling stock bodies from Shapeways Miniatures, which are presumably 3D printed. They are an American company but, interestingly, they produce a wide range of bodies for the KESR in all gauges.  The bodies are not cheap but appear to be a good representation of the prototypes, and are made from a material known as Nylon12. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has used these bodie and in particular, which glues will work with Nylon12. Their web site is here:-  https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace/miniatures/trains?type=product&q=kesr

 

 

 

[Metr0Land]

Isn't that rue_d_etropal of this parish?  Long thread here:

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

33 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

They are an American company but, interestingly, they produce a wide range of bodies for the KESR in all gauges. 

 

Shapeways is effectively a selling platform, with individuals producing and being responsible for their own designs and Shapeways printing them. So where the central company is from should not indicate what kinds of prototypes are available.

[Guest]

Well that was a marathon, 32 pages, but unfortunately I couldn't find an answer to my query about glue for these models, exept some vague stuff about glue glaze which I didn't fully understand. Perhaps I should PM Simon.

[zarniwhoop]

The materials will differ, but in general if you need to glue these then I guess that some form of epoxy is needed. Nylon, as I'm sure you know, is not particularly friendly for adhesives (but printed plastics are not as smooth as injection-moulded, which might help).

 

However, the railway models are usually complete bodies - although you might need to attach a chassis. I guess that a contact adhesive (e.g. evostick) might be adequate for fitting brackets which can take screws or bolts.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, zarniwhoop said:

The materials will differ, but in general if you need to glue these then I guess that some form of epoxy is needed. Nylon, as I'm sure you know, is not particularly friendly for adhesives (but printed plastics are not as smooth as injection-moulded, which might help).

 

However, the railway models are usually complete bodies - although you might need to attach a chassis. I guess that a contact adhesive (e.g. evostick) might be adequate for fitting brackets which can take screws or bolts.

 

Thanks for that, it is what I suspected. The kit I wanted is a pair of the KESR Ford Railcars in 00 gauge but, unfortunately the printed body and chassis unit is devoid of the lights, front bumper bar and transverse spring suspension unit, which are all very noticeable on the prototypes. Adding them using epoxy will be a pain, so I am going to think about them.  To be honest, don't know why the model is missing some very visible features as the drawings I have seen show them and there are numerous photos available, plus a full size replica. I even have photo of the second set with my father and two Aunts sitting in the front car, when they were children, along with a publicity photo which includes my Great Grandfather, who was Tenterden Station Agent.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Guest

[Metr0Land]

Why don't you drop the designer a line?  AIUI he's amenable to suggestions.  I think he generally needs drawings to work from as opposed to pictures.  KESR railcars aren't my strong point so I don't know if drawings include these or not.

[Guest]

 

 

29 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

Why don't you drop the designer a line?  AIUI he's amenable to suggestions.  I think he generally needs drawings to work from as opposed to pictures.  KESR railcars aren't my strong point so I don't know if drawings include these or not.

 

I may well do that but earlier in this thread he said that he had obtained drawings from the colonel Stephens Society. Below is my copy of that drawing, which clearly show the suspension unit, bumper bar, and lights, as does the photo, but with the single light as used in later years.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Guest

[Guy Rixon]

Shapeways print in various kinds of plastic. The nylon forms give low resolution and poor finish, but are cheaper. The "smooth fine detail plastic" gives much better detail but is more expensive.

 

Some fine features won't print at all in nylon. The springs on the rail car are likely to fall in this category. if you can get the thing printed in SFDP (previously known as Frosted Ultra Detail) then your life may be easier. You will certainly have to do less to prepare the thing for painting. SFDP, being acrylic resin, accepts CA glue quite well.

 

For European customers, Shapeways print in Eindhoven.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Guy Rixon said:

Shapeways print in various kinds of plastic. The nylon forms give low resolution and poor finish, but are cheaper. The "smooth fine detail plastic" gives much better detail but is more expensive.

 

Some fine features won't print at all in nylon. The springs on the rail car are likely to fall in this category. if you can get the thing printed in SFDP (previously known as Frosted Ultra Detail) then your life may be easier. You will certainly have to do less to prepare the thing for painting. SFDP, being acrylic resin, accepts CA glue quite well.

 

For European customers, Shapeways print in Eindhoven.

 

That is useful information, and would explain why some of the sections, such as the wheel guards are rather bulky. I have a printed tractor in 1:76 scale which was printed in a resin of some sort, it is tiny (3.5cm long) and as you can see from the photo below, has some very fine detail, and only cost about a fiver,

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Guest

[F2Andy]

Note that delivery costs from Shapeways look to have risen dramatically recently. It is now $19.99 - or more if you want it faster. I think this is because we are no longer in the EU, and count as the rest of the world. Looks to be a flat rate regardless of the size of the order, so worth buying in bulk.

Edited February 20, 2021 by F2Andy

[The Johnster]

This is a serious extra cost for items which are, in many cases, not cheap in the first place.  For example, using one of Rue d'Etropal's coach bodyshells, often the only alternative to complete scratchbuilding, will result in a total cost for a singe coach of, I estimate, about £130 depending on model and the other components used, and that's before the Brexit postage increases.  I hope it does not dissuade the many designer/producers from taking advantage of the Shapeways 'system', which has proved a very effective way of their being able to successfully market their products.  Most of them are not professional businesses, and if this postage increase means that the huge variety of prints, which has been increasing steadly, is reduced this is A Bad Thing.

 

My go to for bogies is Stafford Road Works, who market through Shapeways, and I had been considering building one of their Cordons, but this will probably make the plan prohibitively expensive.

Edited February 20, 2021 by The Johnster

[Guest]

On 20/02/2021 at 12:40, F2Andy said:

Note that delivery costs from Shapeways look to have risen dramatically recently. It is now $19.99 - or more if you want it faster. I think this is because we are no longer in the EU, and count as the rest of the world. Looks to be a flat rate regardless of the size of the order, so worth buying in bulk.

 

After an exchange of emails with Simon (rue_d_etropal), I ordered three of his K&ESR items yesterday, and have made the payment. Interestingly, the invoice amounts charged are all about 4% higher than the website quotes, but the biggest concern is that VAT does not appear to have been added, and there is nothing on the website which clarifies whether it is already included or (as I am assuming) will be charged at a later date. I have written to Shapeways for details, but if it does have to be payed on top of the invoice, it will add another 20% onto the total cost, which is something else to bear in mind when buying from these people.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Guest

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I was going to order an update kit for the Lima J50 from Shapeways until I found that the postage was as much as the item. The update kit which looks great is £14.12 but there is a charge of £14.14 for shipping and to cap it all they also charge you 65p for processing. I have no qualms for paying the £14.12 for the kit as I think it is worth it but the rest is just far too expensive. I have decided to scratch build what I want instead.

Edited March 14, 2021 by cypherman

[Michael Hodgson]

One of the problems with shapeways is that it isn't at all easy to find out what's on offer, their search engine isn't the greatest.

 

Also, many of the sellers on there don't specify suggested parts needed to complete a model - where to find suitable bogies, chassis, motors or whatever.  If they have produced these bodies for their own use and are offering them to others as a by-product it would make sense to list what parts they added themselves and where they got them.

[Guy Rixon]

5 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 

After an exchange of emails with Simon (rue_d_etropal), I ordered three of his K&ESR items yesterday, and have made the payment. Interestingly, the invoice amounts charged are all about 4% higher than the website quotes, but the biggest concern is that VAT does not appear to have been added, and there is nothing on the website which clarifies whether it is already included or (as I am assuming) will be charged at a later date. I have written to Shapeways for details, but if it does have to be payed on top of the invoice, it will add another 20% onto the total cost, which is something else to bear in mind when buying from these people.

I've ordered recently from Shapeways. No VAT was collected by the courier, nor were any extra invoices issued for it. Based on the price paid relative to the historical prices, I think they are including VAT in the sale price (as they are supposed to under UK and EU law), even though their web site now says zero VAT.

[Gareth Collier]

I've just been contemplating another order from Shapeways but shipping has more than doubled since November. It just isn't viable anymore

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Guy Rixon said:

I've ordered recently from Shapeways. No VAT was collected by the courier, nor were any extra invoices issued for it. Based on the price paid relative to the historical prices, I think they are including VAT in the sale price (as they are supposed to under UK and EU law), even though their web site now says zero VAT.

 

Thanks for that Info. It that will make these tiny models just a bit less expensive, just £87.70 for two 00 gauge Ford railcars and a Royalty saloon coach. Having said that. scratch building them would have been a nightmare, so probably worth it in the long run.

 

   

 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Guest

[The Johnster]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

of the problems with shapeways is that it isn't at all easy to find out what's on offer, their search engine isn't the greatest

It could do with a bit of a rejigging.  I suspect what has happened is that a system adequate for a relatively small number of designers producing a small range of items is now creaking under the weight, and the whole site is a bit of a time sucker.  The postage charge increase is really beyond the control of Shapeways or the people retailing stuff through them, it as TTBOMK a consequence of Brexit, but it certainly renders the lower value items less viable. 

[cypherman]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

It could do with a bit of a rejigging.  I suspect what has happened is that a system adequate for a relatively small number of designers producing a small range of items is now creaking under the weight, and the whole site is a bit of a time sucker.  The postage charge increase is really beyond the control of Shapeways or the people retailing stuff through them, it as TTBOMK a consequence of Brexit, but it certainly renders the lower value items less viable. 

Hi Johnster, I am sorry you cannot blame Brexit for the exorbitant postage fees. Nearly £15.00 for a package that should be only about £5.00 is not just down to Brexit.

[Guy Rixon]

One of the problems with their shipping is that they are geared to the jewellery market, where the individual pieces are expensive and the shipping fees don't feel so bad. They need a super-economy shipping-mode for the cheaper products. If they were in the UK, I'd suggest just using Royal Mail, but my Dutch in-laws tell me that the Dutch postal-service is a bit rubbish.

[Guy Rixon]

40 minutes ago, cypherman said:

Hi Johnster, I am sorry you cannot blame Brexit for the exorbitant postage fees. Nearly £15.00 for a package that should be only about £5.00 is not just down to Brexit.

It went from about £8 to about £15 at the end of the Brexit transition, so absolutely down to Brexit. Whether the courier's costs have genuinely doubled due to Brexit is an open question. They may simply be taking more profit. But Brexit was clearly the trigger.

[The Johnster]

Pre-brexit Shapeways delivery charges, using UPS, were not cheap (or particularly fast), but have increased considerably since, sadly rendering the cost viability of many Shapeways items questionable.  Many of the  designers of these items, some of which are of high quality and potentially very useful, being often the only way to achieve models of some prototypes (e.g. Class 120 dmu bodyshells), are not in a position to do their own marketing or production, and there seems to be no UK equivalent for them to turn to. 
 

It is unfortunate, because Shapeways is an excellent and growing resource for us.  I do not know what changes in the regulations have caused the increased delivery charges from Holland, but I imagine it is to do with UK import tarriffs, in which case it is our government that is the cause, and neither Shapeways, UPS, nor the EU can be blamed. 

[Guest]

 

On 14/03/2021 at 12:51, David Schweizer said:

 

After an exchange of emails with Simon (rue_d_etropal), I ordered three of his K&ESR items yesterday, and have made the payment. Interestingly, the invoice amounts charged are all about 4% higher than the website quotes, but the biggest concern is that VAT does not appear to have been added, and there is nothing on the website which clarifies whether it is already included or (as I am assuming) will be charged at a later date. I have written to Shapeways for details, but if it does have to be payed on top of the invoice, it will add another 20% onto the total cost, which is something else to bear in mind when buying from these people.

 

 

I would be interested to know when the item you bought was despatched, as the VAT rules changed on Jan 1st 2021

 

I have recieved a confusing email in rely to my enquiry from Shapeways which says :-  "Since Brexit Shapeways is not collecting any VAT for orders to the UK. Depending on the value of your order, UPS will contact you before delivery to pay for import duties. We will in the near future start collecting VAT for orders below 135 Pound Sterling so you don't have to pay to UPS. But for now this isn't implemented just yet."

 

As I understand it, any attempt by UPS or anyone elseto collect VAT, will be unlawfull, as the order value (including shipping and other charges) is well under £135.  This is the current ruling on goods valued less than £135 :-

 

"VAT on imported goods with a value of up to £135 will be collected at the point of sale, not the point of importation from 1 January 2021. New guidance has been issued by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) which outlines how it anticipates the import of goods from outside the UK below this value to be treated for VAT after the transition period ends. From the start of next year, this change on where VAT is collected will mean that UK supply VAT, rather than import VAT, will be due on consignments of £135 or less. Under HMRC’s rules, online marketplaces that facilitate the sale of imported goods will be responsible for collecting and accounting for VAT, including when the goods are located in the UK at the point of sale. If goods are sold and sent directly to the UK from overseas, then the overseas seller will be required to register and account for the VAT to HMRC. The rules also require overseas sellers to account for the VAT on goods in the UK when sold directly to UK consumers."

 

At the moment I am undecided whether to challenge Shapeways on their declared (unlawfull) practice, or wait and see.

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Guest

[Gareth Collier]

Very similar to the above I have just received this from Shapeways: