Lessismore LMR - but is it enough?

[Chimer]

Lots of talk of compromises recently, here's my latest creation which compromises by reducing main line operations to trainspotting, so no reforming/reversing of passenger trains, no changing engines, no goods yard to be visited by pick-up freights on the main.  Just watching passing trains on the main, then, and getting my operational jollies from the branch terminus which features a couple of deliberately hard-to-access kickback sidings off a bay platform - at the behest of local merchants who wanted their own sidings after the railway had arrived.  Also featuring an MPD which is primarily somewhere to keep my locos other than in stock boxes - the story here is that the depot services a major junction just off scene bottom right, where all the things I'd like to model happening really do happen.

 

I'm also thinking (carpentry skills permitting) it would be good if the branch dropped slightly from the junction to the terminus, and the main rose from the junction to the tunnel mouths top left, to give 1.5 - 2 inches of vertical separation in the top left corner, which will be the main trainspotting area.  Anyway, yer tiz, accepting that the details of the branch terminus and the MPD could change in many ways before any timber is cut.

 

In anticipation of some of your questions:

 

It's accessible from the outside all along the bottom edge;

I can fit sideways through the gap provided by lifting out the board with the crossover along the bottom;

The grey rectangles are scenic but railway-free and removable to assist access to the top corners;

The facing crossover along the top gives clockwise traffic access to the nearer FY sidings to make fiddling easier;

The brown line curving round behind the BLT will be a simple wall, allowing reach-over access to the main lines beyond;

I know I'm missing at least one trap at the BLT;

And of course I know the branch terminus is a ludicrously short distance from the junction.  But I will operate it as if it is a proper branch with intermediate stations.

 

Over to you ....

 

Cheers, Chris

[Harlequin]

Hi Chris,

 

Does the trailing crossover on the lifting section actually fit? It's best to have a small length of track between the edge and the turnout.

 

The access to the engine shed looks like it might be annoying to navigate. Could it be simplified? Maybe directly off the mainline instead of the branch (to make it easier to create the connection and to allow the shed headshunt to be longer).

 

It might look better if the shed headshunt followed the curve of the branch?

 

More radically, since you're playing with levels already, it seems a shame that the BLT is quite so hemmed in by the storage loops. So what if the branch line ran around the outside of the main line? Around the outside it has more length to rise enough to clear the mainline tracks somewhere near where you've shown them disappearing in the top left and if the mainline is descending that helps. It could then cross over the the main line tracks and extend the full width of the room, partially covering the loops in the top left corner. OK, I know, I know! There could be accessibility issues and covering the storage loops is a no-no usually but:

1. It could help you maximise the use of the space.
2. The storage loops would only be partially covered and only the extreme ends of trains in the loop would be covered. (So if a loco stalls you can poke one of the carriages... )
3. You could arrange the BLT so that the top left corner lifts off, maybe taking the loco release spur(s) with it...
4. The mainline along the top of the plan would be accessible both from on top and from underneath - the baseboard only needs to be ~6in wide there.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Harlequin

[DCB]

Looks good.  I would lengthen and hinge the lift section.   I can lift mine up, get past and lower it again 15 seconds. Get out in about 5 seconds. Mine also hooks to a skyhook on the ceiling to keep it vertical if required. A lift out with wires to connect etc you 're looking a a minute or more which can be a PITA when the wife shouts Tea's ready or there is a spider in the bath .

Don't know about separation, it would look good round the curve but the gradient on the mainline might give current RTR steam locos problems with anything like a train behind it.

Also the divider would need to be higher behind the terminus. You could drop the branch but again the divider gets high.  The terminus looks challenging to shunt.   Don't worry about carpentry skills, I don't have any but were aren't making a mid 19th century writing desk. Just buy or hire a table saw or bench saw and raid a few skips for raw material..

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi Chris - could I just ask if this is a starter for ten for a layout you can now proceed to build, or the next iteration in your long-term thinking?   Nothing wrong with either of course, but if it’s a layout you can build now, I think there are some subtly different considerations (and I hope it works out):

 

Live Project Questions:  What level of complexity do you currently feel willing to tackle?  (alt: what might this layout help you practice for any future developments?).  Related to this, how quickly do you want to see something running?  And what stock / track do you currently have that you want to incorporate (as opposed to plan to invest in over time for a future layout).

 

That said, I like the basic idea: if the things you like / want most are an MPD, a Branch Line Terminus and Mainline running you’ve got them all into the space you have in a way that I think could make sense visually to a visitor entering the room.
 

In terms of details, I wonder if you’d want to work a turntable into the MPD?  I also agree with @Harlequin that the entrance to the MPD could do with a further look.  The BLT is a generic starter for ten, which is fair enough, but I would still counsel against the kickback sidings, on two grounds: I don’t think they’d be Loco-shunted if they existed (I’m thinking Ashburton as my example - wrong railway perhaps for yourself, but right one for me), and I’d want to have space to model the industries they served if I included them.  There are of course plenty of CJF plans with dairies etc. in this exact arrangement.

 

Thinking about the big picture: I suppose my question would be whether this will also hold your interest operationally over time?  It depends what you want, but I’d try to expand the fiddle yard to serve the branch line a bit better, and are 6 loops enough for variety when there is no on-scene shunting other than loco coal and engine swaps?  Try and imagine an operating session and see how it goes would be one way to test these questions.  Hope this is Ok, Keith.

[Chimer]

I knew I could count on @Harlequin, @DavidCBroad and @Keith Addenbrooke ......

 

Thanks Phil .....

Does the trailing crossover on the lifting section actually fit? It's best to have a small length of track between the edge and the turnout.  Yes, it fits, but I'll make sure all the ends are plain track not turnout ends.

The access to the engine shed looks like it might be annoying to navigate. Could it be simplified? Maybe directly off the mainline instead of the branch (to make it easier to create the connection and to allow the shed headshunt to be longer).  It is annoying, and I've played around with it a bit with no great success, including making the access point right-handed.  Not sure what you're thinking of when you say "directly off the mainline"?  Sketch please?

It might look better if the shed headshunt followed the curve of the branch?  I should have labelled the track parallel to the headshunt "coal ramp".  When I just had the headshunt there I did have it curving parallel and it does look much better ... there is work to be done with the depot

More radically, since you're playing with levels already, it seems a shame that the BLT is quite so hemmed in by the storage loops. So what if the branch line ran around the outside of the main line? Around the outside it has more length to rise enough to clear the mainline tracks somewhere near where you've shown them disappearing in the top left and if the mainline is descending that helps. It could then cross over the the main line tracks and extend the full width of the room, partially covering the loops in the top left corner. OK, I know, I know! There could be accessibility issues and covering the storage loops is a no-no usually but:

It could help you maximise the use of the space.

The storage loops would only be partially covered and only the extreme ends of trains in the loop would be covered. (So if a loco stalls you can poke one of the carriages... )

You could arrange the BLT so that the top left corner lifts off, maybe taking the loco release spur(s) with it...

The mainline along the top of the plan would be accessible both from on top and from underneath - the baseboard only needs to be ~6in wide there.  I'll take a look.  But I was only thinking of dropping the branch and raising the main by an inch each, with grades of around 1 in 100 on the main and 1 in 70 on the branch.  If the main stayed level, the branch gradient would need to be ~ 1 in 25 to clear it where you suggest.

 

Thanks David .....

 

Looks good.  I would lengthen and hinge the lift section.   I can lift mine up, get past and lower it again 15 seconds. Get out in about 5 seconds. Mine also hooks to a skyhook on the ceiling to keep it vertical if required. A lift out with wires to connect etc you 're looking a a minute or more which can be a PITA when the wife shouts Tea's ready or there is a spider in the bath .  In that sort of emergency I can manage to duck under ....

Don't know about separation, it would look good round the curve but the gradient on the mainline might give current RTR steam locos problems with anything like a train behind it.  See above, for an inch rise I think I've got the main around 1 in 100 or easier

Also the divider would need to be higher behind the terminus.  You could drop the branch but again the divider gets high.  Mmmm - 5 inches would just about do it but that's a 30 ft ish wall - further thought clearly required.  Castle/prison/football stadium wall maybe?

The terminus looks challenging to shunt.   Don't worry about carpentry skills, I don't have any but were aren't making a mid 19th century writing desk. Just buy or hire a table saw or bench saw and raid a few skips for raw material.

 

And thanks Keith .....

Hi Chris - could I just ask if this is a starter for ten for a layout you can now proceed to build, or the next iteration in your long-term thinking?   Nothing wrong with either of course, but if it’s a layout you can build now, I think there are some subtly different considerations (and I hope it works out):  If built, it will be the last great project (and the first great project, come to that).  Which also answers most of your next para - the stock I already have has been put together with a purpose and will be used.  Track is and will be Streamline Code 100.

Live Project Questions:  What level of complexity do you currently feel willing to tackle?  (alt: what might this layout help you practice for any future developments?).  Related to this, how quickly do you want to see something running?  And what stock / track do you currently have that you want to incorporate (as opposed to plan to invest in over time for a future layout).

That said, I like the basic idea: if the things you like / want most are an MPD, a Branch Line Terminus and Mainline running you’ve got them all into the space you have in a way that I think could make sense visually to a visitor entering the room.
In terms of details, I wonder if you’d want to work a turntable into the MPD?  It would look good, but would be a to fit in and (for me I fear) to install satisfactorily.  I may have forgotten to mention there's a turning triangle at the off-scene junction station . 

I also agree with @Harlequin that the entrance to the MPD could do with a further look.  So do I.  Sketches/plans with alternative proposed arrangements very welcome.

The BLT is a generic starter for ten, which is fair enough, but I would still counsel against the kickback sidings, on two grounds: I don’t think they’d be Loco-shunted if they existed (I’m thinking Ashburton as my example - wrong railway perhaps for yourself, but right one for me), and I’d want to have space to model the industries they served if I included them.  There are of course plenty of CJF plans with dairies etc. in this exact arrangement.  They're there deliberately to make shunting interesting, and there is a little bit of free space in the grey zone.

 

Thinking about the big picture: I suppose my question would be whether this will also hold your interest operationally over time?  That's the very question I'm asking myself.  I know it's a compromise, is it a compromise too far?  Only I can know the answer, and right now I don't.

It depends what you want, but I’d try to expand the fiddle yard to serve the branch line a bit better, and are 6 loops enough for variety when there is no on-scene shunting other than loco coal and engine swaps?  Try and imagine an operating session and see how it goes would be one way to test these questions.  The compromise idea is that the BLT will provide all the shunting I want, while the main line lets me re-spot my 60s memories.  And I may also have forgotten to mention the cassette for stock exchange on the inside storage loop .....

Hope this is Ok, Keith. But of course my friend

[Keith Addenbrooke]

23 minutes ago, Chimer said:

the cassette for stock exchange on the inside storage loop .....

Thanks Chris for the comprehensive response: I think the inclusion of the cassette option really helps with the operability of the whole scheme - it can transform the fiddle yard from staging loops into a working fiddle yard and potentially makes all the difference.  Do you have a place to store the cassettes? (Worth including on the next iteration of the sketch), Keith.

[Chimer]

15 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Thanks Chris for the comprehensive response: I think the inclusion of the cassette option really helps with the operability of the whole scheme - it can transform the fiddle yard from staging loops into a working fiddle yard and potentially makes all the difference.  Do you have a place to store the cassettes? (Worth including on the next iteration of the sketch), Keith.

 

Spur shelving on the left hand wall, clear above any backscene.  With a couple of  the most frequently used ones on a shelf under the storage loops.