This time it’s a railway tunnel to Northern Ireland.

[Michael Hodgson]

 This scheme seems to be proposed by the High Speed Rail Group - so what are we up to now - HS5?

 

 

3 hours ago, petethemole said:

 I don't see the Republic wanting to change gauge.

You could always build a customs post at the break of gauge. 

 

3 hours ago, Hando said:

Besides all the discussion of the routes and the avoidance of Beaufort's Trench, wouldn't the tunnel be digging through loads of very hard rock?!

 

Please enlighten me...

Thanks,

 

Alex

Why dig this tunnel - why not just lay it on the sea bed?   A bit like one of those undersea telephone cables, or the WW2 PLUTO system. just needs a larger diameter polypropylene garden hose.

[Gibbo675]

1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 This scheme seems to be proposed by the High Speed Rail Group - so what are we up to now - HS5?

 

 

You could always build a customs post at the break of gauge. 

 

Why dig this tunnel - why not just lay it on the sea bed?   A bit like one of those undersea telephone cables, or the WW2 PLUTO system. just needs a larger diameter polypropylene garden hose.

Hi Michael,

 

Have you just conceptualised a new type of transportation technology ?

 

Gibbo.

[Max Legroom]

I would like to see the business case for this one. It reminds me of some of the nineteenth century proposals to build lines in the far flung corners of the empire. Pretty desperate stuff!

[phil-b259]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Why dig this tunnel - why not just lay it on the sea bed?   A bit like one of those undersea telephone cables, or the WW2 PLUTO system. just needs a larger diameter polypropylene garden hose.

Because the bit of sea between Stranraer and NI contains a massively deep trench in the middle FULL of unexplored WW2 ordinance including all sorts of nasty chemical munitions (that have a nasty habit of washing up on Scottish / Irish beeches after storms).

 

Any tunnel simply ‘laid’ on the seabed would this become an undersea bridge crossing said trench and not survive if any of those munitions went bang!

 

As such any tunnel has to be dug deep enough to pass safely underneath the bottom of said trench and it’s explosive contents - while a bridge based solution is not viable given the depth and munitions filled trench.

[lmsforever]

What a waste of money  NI needs money spent on communities not ridiculous projects ,get covid sorted ,get the economy back and dont come up with crazy ideas.

[60B]

This was proposed in November by our big wet PM and it got sunk about as fast as it came up. It is a pure pipe dream for reasons pointed out here: Random munition dumps, deeper than the English channel etc. No less mad than some of the proposed Strait of Dover crossings (my personal favourite being 'build an island for horses to change over') but thats not really saying much.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Because the bit of sea between Stranraer and NI contains a massively deep trench in the middle FULL of unexplored WW2 ordinance including all sorts of nasty chemical munitions (that have a nasty habit of washing up on Scottish / Irish beeches after storms).

 

Any tunnel simply ‘laid’ on the seabed would this become an undersea bridge crossing said trench and not survive if any of those munitions went bang!

 

As such any tunnel has to be dug deep enough to pass safely underneath the bottom of said trench and it’s explosive contents - while a bridge based solution is not viable given the depth and munitions filled trench.

Or just dredge the sea, blowing up whatevers left that hasnt already become corroded to point of no threat.

 

 

[daveyb]

8 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Because the bit of sea between Stranraer and NI contains a massively deep trench in the middle FULL of unexplored WW2 ordinance including all sorts of nasty chemical munitions (that have a nasty habit of washing up on Scottish / Irish beeches after storms).

 

Any tunnel simply ‘laid’ on the seabed would this become an undersea bridge crossing said trench and not survive if any of those munitions went bang!

 

As such any tunnel has to be dug deep enough to pass safely underneath the bottom of said trench and it’s explosive contents - while a bridge based solution is not viable given the depth and munitions filled trench.

When did the last explosion in the Irish Sea occur?

 

 

 

Never, that's when.

 

There are lots of occasions when cable and pipe laying operations have disturbed uxo in that area but without incident so far. One of the issues is that the uxo tends to migrate due to changes in sea density and salinity affecting the buoyancy of said debris. Last deep sea dump was Sep 91 into the English Channel/North Sea well off the NW coast of the Netherlands. The ammunition was prepare at CAD Bracht and was obsolete and surplus WMR stock following Options for Change in 1990.

 

The time frame for this proposal means very few of us will see it even start. Not worth frothing about... 

[class26]

7 hours ago, lmsforever said:

What a waste of money  NI needs money spent on communities not ridiculous projects ,get covid sorted ,get the economy back and dont come up with crazy ideas.

Don`t worry, it will never happen 

[DY444]

I have to say it is disappointing to see so much mocking of a potential railway project on a railway forum.  It may be somewhat left field but it is in essence "normal railway" and not hyperloop or other fantasy nonsense and seems to me to be a rather more practical proposition than the bridge proposal. 

 

As to the "we don't need any more infrastructure because of Covid" merchants.  History tells us that pandemics happen once or twice per century.  The vaccine programme shows us that science will tame Covid to levels that allow normal life to resume permanently.  Covid is not a reason to assume the future will result in less travel or movement of freight across the board.

Edited February 15, 2021 by DY444

[Colin_McLeod]

16 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Sounds like ............ a sop to the Democratic Unionists (who are currently even more angry and upset than their default angry and upset condition) than a serious proposition.

 

So does that mean the DUP will get to choose whether the border controls are at Larne or at Stranraer?

[Georgeconna]

1 hour ago, class26 said:

Don`t worry, it will never happen 

 

Yes Ulster will probably say no........The usual.....

[Fenman]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Or just dredge the sea, blowing up whatevers left that hasnt already become corroded to point of no threat.

 

 

Reminds me of the great movie mogul, Sir Lou Grade, commenting on the phenomenal budget overruns of his blockbuster disaster movie, Raise the Titanic:

 

”Raise the Titanic? It would have been cheaper to lower the bloody Atlantic”.

 

Paul

[Wickham Green too]

Once again we have a tunnel proposal from the Irish Department of International Overland Transport.

[Legend]

Will trains stop mid channel to complete custom formalities on what isn't a border.

 

This is just so much tosh , but its alarming that some politicians are actually thinking it could happen . 

[Zomboid]

It's not a technical impossibility, though it's so far in the future that who knows what a fixed link might look like if it does happen. Which I doubt.

 

In my early 21st century view, converting the Larne route to standard gauge (which would mean dual gauge though to Great Victoria Street) and building a large intermodal terminal somewhere near the NI portal and a motorway would be technically doable. What to do at the Scotland end is a bigger question, since Portpatrick and Stranraer are a bit in the middle of nowhere.

[John M Upton]

File it in the bottom of the same filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard as the Boris Island Airport and the Garden Bridge idea.

 

Utter tosh vanity project.

[Colin_McLeod]

To be practical, the whole of the Larne line would have to be dual gauge. 

 

[adb968008]

Spanish Talgo sets have ability to change gauge whilst on the move.

 

there is a freight wagon converter too.

[birdseyecircus]

Regarding explosives the SS Richard Montgomery a WW 2 liberty ship sunk in the Thames estuary is another one you would not want to go bang.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20151027-the-ticking-time-bomb-of-the-thames

 

Paul

 

 

[Gibbo675]

57 minutes ago, Legend said:

Will trains stop mid channel to complete custom formalities on what isn't a border.

 

This is just so much tosh , but its alarming that some politicians are actually thinking it could happen . 

Hi Legend,

 

That idiots that vote for politicians is one part of the problem, that idiots pay any attention to what they say is another part of the problem.

 

Other than the above the system works just fine in that it keeps idiot busy worrying about tosh instead of getting on with their lives !

 

Gibbo.

[corneliuslundie]

"To be sure, just give me and Paddy shovels. He can start from Scotland and I'll start here. We'll meet in the middle. No problem." (sorry, I can't type an Irish accent), and it is anyway an old joke

Jonathan

[60B]

3 hours ago, DY444 said:

I have to say it is disappointing to see so much mocking of a potential railway project on a railway forum.  It may be somewhat left field but it is in essence "normal railway" and not hyperloop or other fantasy nonsense and seems to me to be a rather more practical proposition than the bridge proposal. 

Why shouldn't it be mocked? Its not treasonous to suggest a plan is dumb as rocks when it clearly is. HS2 and Crossrail still get pelters despite their obvious merits and pitfalls. Hyperloop is also a dumb idea thats being pitched as some revolutionary saviour. Though I guess 100mph is impressive when buses come as often as bed washing day. Britain isn't exactly known for transport projects coming in on time or anywhere near budget. Especially when our current PM wasted millions on a bridge that never existed. I don't think its a stretch to suggest none of them should be allowed near planning and should be given crayons and paper and left to it. 

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

It's not a technical impossibility, though it's so far in the future that who knows what a fixed link might look like if it does happen. Which I doubt.

 

In my early 21st century view, converting the Larne route to standard gauge (which would mean dual gauge though to Great Victoria Street) and building a large intermodal terminal somewhere near the NI portal and a motorway would be technically doable. What to do at the Scotland end is a bigger question, since Portpatrick and Stranraer are a bit in the middle of nowhere.

I think you are being far to generous with that description.

I would have thought back of beyond to be nearer the mark.

Bernard

[Bomag]

The amount of moaning and winging is incredible, if you think this is a 'political' project look at some of the road tunnels in Norway where the usage in in 100's of cars a day.

 

If I was looking at a tunnel to Ireland I would go immersed tube from Holyhead to Malahide as a first option, but a bored/blasted tunnel Galloway to Larne or Ards is perfectly doable in engineering terms. The benefit would also be to stop Galloway being so difficult to get to, their problem is that they are not in the SNP's heartland which is why the A9 is being fully dualled and the A75 isn't.