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Interpretation of Rulebook - "Engine and Train Lamps"


Mol_PMB
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I wonder if someone can help me with the correct interpretation of rules regarding the lamps carried on a locomotive?

As a slight twist, this doesn't refer to main line regulations but an industrial system which I am modelling.

I'm trying to work it out, so that on my model locomotive I can set up the dcc headlight logic to match what would have been used in reality.

 

Here is page 19 of the Manchester Ship Canal Company (Railways) Rule Book, 1936 edition (which has just arrived after I bought it on ebay!):

lamp_rules.jpg.da0c01c2781b16a55c4dab2f4f3c6807.jpg

 

Now, the MSC Railway steam loco headlamps were a bit different from normal. Here is a photo showing an MSC loco carrying a head lamp and an "additional lamp at or near buffer level" as described above:

c.1965 - Manchester Ship Canal, New Barns, Salford.

Note that the head lamp has additional lenses in the sides, so that it can "shew a red light when seen from the side" as required. The other lamp does not have this feature.

 

Now, I'm modelling a later period and my prototype has all the lamps built-in. Each end has a white head lamp at the top, and another white lamp above the buffer. Additionally, there are orange-red side lights at each corner, on the sides of the bonnet and gearbox casing. Although these locos were built 25 years after my rulebook was issued, it looks like they were designed to comply with the same requirements:D11_ebay_small.jpg.e43af32102dc437d8b4fc7a0eda286b4.jpg

 

So, I would be interested in your interpretation of how the lights should be illuminated.

 

I think the rules state that the loco should carry head lamp, tail lamp and additional buffer-level lamp, but that in daylight these would not be lit (unless in fog or falling snow).

So when working in daylight all my lamps should be extinguished?

 

When working at night, with the steam-era lamps I think the rules are stating that:

The front of the loco would display a white head lamp at high level, which would also display reds to both sides. Also a white buffer-level lamp.

The rear of the loco would display a white tail lamp at high level, which would also display reds to both sides.

Interpreting this onto my diesel model, then 7 of the 8 lamps should be on: all except the buffer-level white lamp at the rear.

 

Clause 48 states that at night, trains should carry a red tail lamp (note: the MSC Railway did not normally use brake vans, so this would be hung on the last wagon).

However, this requirement specifically excludes light engines.

So my interpretation is that a light engine would not display a red lamp to the rear (it is however required to display a white lamp to the rear). And my diesel doesn't actually have a means of displaying a red lamp to the rear, other than fitting a oil-lit tail lamp on the lamp bracket.

 

To possibly muddy the waters, here is one parked up and carrying a red oil tail lamp! However, this may be covered by a different rule requiring trains parked blocking a running line at night to display a red lamp.

HBR8-006

 

My interpretation seems a bit counter-intuitive for one versed in main-line practice. But do you think I've got it right, or have I misunderstood?

 

Many thanks,

Mol

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I agree absolutely with your interpretations - they exactly reflect the wording of the Rules.  I wonder if the red lamp on the diesel in the lowest photo was because it was stabled for some reason as it is also clear that light engines did not carry a red tail lamp but exhibited a white light at night from the tail lamp.

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13 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I agree absolutely with your interpretations - they exactly reflect the wording of the Rules.  I wonder if the red lamp on the diesel in the lowest photo was because it was stabled for some reason as it is also clear that light engines did not carry a red tail lamp but exhibited a white light at night from the tail lamp.

Many thanks for checking, looks like I've passed my reading comprehension exam!

I agree that the lowest photo is a stabled loco rather than operating as a light engine, so different rules may have applied.

Locos were required to carry a tail lamp (the rulebook says "in the cab, as part of its equipment"). I haven't found any photos of these locos carrying red lamps on external lamp brackets when on the move.

Best Regards,

Mol

Edited by Mol_PMB
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Interesting to note that, if I'm interpreting it correctly, the buffer lamp only needs to be at the leading end of the loco in the dark or during poor visibility.  I would presume in practice this would apply when the loco was moving between different locations along the 'main line'.  It doesn't seem practical to expect that lamp to be moved from one end to the other during shunting operations when you could be going in and out of sidings for ages!  Or have I got this wrong?

 

Roge.

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2 minutes ago, birdbath said:

Interesting to note that, if I'm interpreting it correctly, the buffer lamp only needs to be at the leading end of the loco in the dark or during poor visibility.  I would presume in practice this would apply when the loco was moving between different locations along the 'main line'.  It doesn't seem practical to expect that lamp to be moved from one end to the other during shunting operations when you could be going in and out of sidings for ages!  Or have I got this wrong?

 

Roge.

Yes, I think you're right.

For my diesel it doesn't make much difference as the there is a permanently installed buffer lamp at each end, both of which would be extinguished in such circumstances. But when/if I have any steam locos, at least we won't have to keep swapping the lamp round when shunting!

Many thanks!

 

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On 15/02/2021 at 13:03, Mol_PMB said:

Clause 48 states that at night, trains should carry a red tail lamp (note: the MSC Railway did not normally use brake vans, so this would be hung on the last wagon).

 

Regarding this clause, unfitted wagons generally didn't have lamp brackets, however the handle of BR tail lamps was designed to hang it on the coupling hook.  Presumably the same method would be used here

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