Comparing Point rodding

[AyJay]

I finally got round to viewing my backlog of BRM Video's and was very impressed by the article on the Point Rodding by DCC Concepts (March 2019), such that I now want to rip up my Ratio plastic rodding.

However, I have just done a costing to replace everything and the cost is eyewatering high.

So an alternative idea occurred to me in an attempt to save money.

 

The rodding would have to cross several baseboard joins, and since it is not easily possible to transfer movement across a join, I would like to consider just using the DCC Concepts product at the Points end, where there will be movement.  

Then to use a cheaper alternative, e.g. Wizard Models non-operating rodding, for everywhere else where there is no movement.

The points are operated by Cobalt motors, so the movement would be purely cosmetic.

 

Is anyone in a position to comment on what these two systems look like when compared?

Can anyone post pictures of the finished articles?

 

If the visual difference is not noticeable under a casual look, then I'll consider it worth a try.

If the difference sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb, then I'll abandon the idea and save my money for something else.

 

Any comments much appreciated.  Thank you.

[Yardman]

I have used the Wizard Models components as I decided the other systems were overscale. The prototype movement is small and not noticeable in 4mm scale. I could also foresee maintenance problems with a working system. The only change I would make is installing the system before ballasting the track. Especially if the rodding goes under tracks. The Wizard Models components can be seen in these photos.

[AyJay]

They look very good, Yardman!

The Wizard Models website says that the rods are 12inches long and steel wire.  The rodding stools look like white metal castings?  Is that the case?

Can you go into a little more detail as to how you laid your rodding please?

I would particularly like to know:

How did you secure the Stools in place?  Did you just fix them down to the base, or mounted on sleepers?

How were the rods secured to the stools?

What did you do with the cranks?  I guess that since they are non-operating, you just soldered the parts together?

Colours used?

How did you run rods under track?

Was there any rodding provision for signals?

Was it difficult / fiddly to do?

 

Sorry if this is a big ask, but your rodding looks so good, I might have to rethink again and this is a serious contender.

 

At present, I have the Ratio plastic rodding.  I scraped away the ballast where each stool go, used a contact adhesive to glue a square of plasticard down, then used plastic solvent to fix the stool onto that.  The big problem with this system is that because the rods are so short and given to curling, there's not a single straight line to be had anywhere.  It's also very delicate and some of it has broken away. 

Not at all convincing.

 

Here is a picture of mine, showing the point rodding, taken a couple of years ago.  It really is not very good.  At least I now have a backdrop.

 

Thanks,   Alan

[Yardman]

3 minutes ago, AyJay said:

They look very good, Yardman!

The Wizard Models website says that the rods are 12inches long and steel wire.  The rodding stools look like white metal castings?  Is that the case?

Can you go into a little more detail as to how you laid your rodding please?

I would particularly like to know:

How did you secure the Stools in place?  Did you just fix them down to the base, or mounted on sleepers?

How were the rods secured to the stools?

What did you do with the cranks?  I guess that since they are non-operating, you just soldered the parts together?

Colours used?

How did you run rods under track?

Was there any rodding provision for signals?

Was it difficult / fiddly to do?

 

Sorry if this is a big ask, but your rodding looks so good, I might have to rethink again and this is a serious contender.

 

At present, I have the Ratio plastic rodding.  I scraped away the ballast where each stool go, used a contact adhesive to glue a square of plasticard down, then used plastic solvent to fix the stool onto that.  The big problem with this system is that because the rods are so short and given to curling, there's not a single straight line to be had anywhere.  It's also very delicate and some of it has broken away. 

Not at all convincing.

 

Here is a picture of mine, showing the point rodding, taken a couple of years ago.  It really is not very good.  At least I now have a backdrop.

 

Thanks,   Alan

The rod pedestals are white metal and have a location spigot. They come in different widths (can't remember sizes.). I mocked up the rodding on a plank of wood. I used square section Nickel silver rod I obtained elsewhere. Wizard didn’t have appropriate rod available at the time. Cranks, compensators and linkage were soldered to the rodding. I had to mine out the ballast under the track for rodding and fit that “on Site”.  The stools aren't normally mounted on sleepers, but on their own pedestals. Track moves and it's position is adjusted by the platelayers, so it's not a good Idea to tie the point operating rodding to it. There is a very good document on point rodding produced by the Institute of Railway Signal Engineers on point rodding, the requirements for expansion, compensation, facing point locks, maximum length. etc. https://nanopdf.com/download/mechanically-operated-points_pdf.

The rodding was painted to represent weathered galvanising, rust and lubrication working from prototype photographs.

[AyJay]

Thankyou for that information Yardman.  It will come in most useful.

Unfortunately, the link that you have given me just returns a 'Not Found' result.  I am looking at the IRSE website and see that there is a respectable price tag on their publications,  so I'll wait for the Postman to deliver the publication that I ordered from the 2mm society on this subject.

 

As an aside.  Using just Dcc Concepts components, the bill for this upgrade would be in the region of £246.  Using just Wizard Models parts, it looks like being nearer to £75.

Not much of a contest really :-)

[ianLMS]

Brassmasters also make very nice etchings of the cranks and wheels etc. Might be worth looking there.

[Yardman]

Hi AyJay,

I tried that link agin and it worked ok. It's a PDF file so you need Adobe reader to see it. Try this direct link below .

I found it difficult enough to make non-working  rodding, I know it has been done in 4mm, but I would rather spend my time elsewhere. By the way signals are not worked from rods. Rods are there as they pull and push. Signals only require a pull so are worked with wires. Signals are also required to fail to danger. So if any part of the linkage fails, like a wire breaking the signal will return to a stop indication. You can see the signal wire posts in the photos. I didn't put the wires in, too small in 4mm.

 

 

 

mechanically-operated-points_compress.pdf

[5050]

Modelu have (or at the very least had) a range of stools in lengths that can be cut as required.  Some rodding was rectangular channel section and square section wire can be used for this.  I still have some Colin Waite components and a small jig to build them that I used around 40 years ago (!!).  Still the most convincing IMHO.

[Siberian Snooper]

The Modelu stools are printed to order, I'm not sure what the maximum number of rods is, I have had them printed upto 10. I use brass wire for the rods, so that I can solder them to the various cranks and compensators. They charge by rod.

 

 

[Right Away]

I am just about brave enough to post an attempt a couple of years back of DIY point rodding together with a scratch built signal box.

It must be stressed, the rodding is just a representation and very simply fabricated from nickel silver wire. It does not purport to be anything near as realistic as industry produced kits but in its defence it fills a “reality gap” and some might find it reasonably acceptable at what is generally considered a normal veiwing distance. The ‘box is from Plasticard, loosely based from various photographs.

Note: the unguarded conductor rail awaits protection boards in these pics.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Right Away

[RexAshton]

Worth having a look at Brassmasters.

[Grovenor]

6 hours ago, Right Away said:

I am just about brave enough to post an attempt a couple of years back of DIY point rodding together with a scratch built signal box.

It must be stressed, the rodding is just a representation and very simply fabricated from nickel silver wire. It does not purport to be anything near as realistic as industry produced kits

 

IMHo that looks very good and  as good as if not better than what can be produced from some commercial kits.

Well done.

[ianLMS]

I used the DCC Concepts system, however mine is entirely cosmetic. It is all finished, ballasted over and weathered now. Will try and take more up to date pics later. The signals I used pulleys and wheels etc from Brassmasters and Wizard. The N/S square rodding is available separately as well. There was no way I was going to try and get it working though! I glued a tiny scrap of styrene under each rail where the rod passed through the track just to make sure I didn't get any shorts!

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by ianLMS

[ianLMS]

More recent pic