Access to storage tracks

[YorkSouth]

I have been designing my 'dream' OO layout based on a distilled essence of the south end of York station and, being extremely greedy, have packed in my ideas of a loco shed, a complex junction and 14 tracks of storage into the usable area of my double garage (5.5m by 3.8m).  Other than operational flaws, which certainly abound, my question is how best to arrange the access to the storage area.

 

Aside from the ECML, York had trains from Scarborough from the north-east, and routes south-west to Leeds and the Midlands which would have crossed over the East Coast mainline.  My plan shows the real-life arrangement of a Doncaster pair and a Leeds pair of lines south of the station but a single set of 'up' and 'down' storage sidings.  Consequently, if I run according to real life, this results in tricky arrangements to get access to the storage, but having reviewed the contributions on this forum I am considering having two up and two down areas.  The designs done by Phil and Bryant McG with your help also suggest that I should consider some bi-directional storage.  Would I be better off even further compromising the prototype and having all 'up' traffic on lines 1 & 2, rather than 1 & 3 as now ?

 

I would be really grateful for your thoughts on the conundrum I have set myself.

 

Other factors:

·         I intend to run trains Eastern / North Eastern region dating from 1958 - 1972, so steam transitioning into diesel and the blue era. 

·         I consciously sacrificed the visible running lines at the top to have more space for storage/loco shed area. 

·         Minimum design curves at 762mm radius in scenic area, 650mm in storage. 

·         There is access across the bottom and top of the layout as well as the operating well.

·         I have already built the baseboards, so am pretty committed to the overall design.

·         The grid on the plan is at 50cm.

 

BTW: many thanks to Phil for his earlier advice - I hope he can see some of it in here, but the mess is all my responsibility.   

 

Many thanks.

Paul

 

York 11 RM.pdf

[B McG]

Hi Paul,

 

Hope you are doing well. I've attached what my current solution is, since my last post it has subtly changed to use a diamond on the bottom left and two medium points rather than a single slip. I designed mine at 91cm minimum radius except on a single 86cm off scene.  I deliberately kept the radius as wide as possible as I would be running full length of passenger stock.

 

Looking at you plan,  I do like how you've approached it, looks like you have a similar space to me.  Are you intending to run full length stock on your layout? This may have a bearing with regard any sharp curves into points and the increased risk of derailment.  Also have a think about your curved points and the double slip on the right fiddle yard entrance, my experience has been hit and miss using them as facing in a fiddle yard. As a trailing point I never seemed to have a problem.   The other thing to consider is on the top right where the 3 way may be a weak link with respect to the sharp curve into it and road 7 being on a reverse curve.

 

Regarding your operating well, have you access to all the areas of your layout?  Without access to the top side of the fiddle yard it looks around a 1.6 meter stretch which I suspect may be a stretch to far! When I designed mine I worked out 1 meter was the most that I could comfortably stretch and the only place I went beyond 1 meter was because I kept access at the top left corner.  

 

Thinking it through I'll take a look at your entrance to your storage roads on the both sides on XTrackCAD to see if it's possible to unlock more space there.  Can I assume that there is a platform on the right on the edge of the baseboard on the up Doncaster line before they diverge into the storage roads?

 

Will be back in a bit!

 

Cheers

Bryant

[DCB]

Referring to the first plan, If that is a scale plan, it looks unworkable.   The curved diamond beloved by C J Freezer has crept in top right and I have never seen one ready to lay and its going to be a sod to make.

Roads 2 and 3 conflict, so I would have roads 2 and 3 converge into a set of bi directional storage sidings between one way sidings for roads 1 and 4.  see pics.  

It still wouldn't float my bat as I like my trains to circulate both clockwise and anti clockwiise which means reversing loops but if you are happy with 3 trains for each line I guess it could work. I would keep the operating area as big as possible, use a curved baseboard edge, Hardboard curves nicely to avoid corners.  I reckon it can be made to work, see my doodle but too much station to too little storage for me.   I tried to post this about 4 hours ago but it didn't upload for some reason.

[YorkSouth]

Thanks, Bryant & David.  I will look into these in detail tomorrow.  I really do want to run 7 or 8 coach trains if possible, so storage is key.  I have ruled out multiple levels for various reasons.

Bryant - there is a platform on the right of the up Doncaster line.  I do have access across most of the top of the fiddle yard, otherwise it would really be impossible.  I need to have a really detailed look into your revised plan - you have some excellent ideas there.

 

David - that is a standard Peco wide crossing on the top right hand side and all curves are within my limits.  I will extract that and send you the detail parts and info.  I really appreciate your draft ideas on how to gain bi-directional access.

 

Many thanks again!
Paul

[B McG]

Hi Paul,

 

I figured it out, I think I have a better solution that might work for you. I set everything at medium radius points and there are no curves under 90 cm (other than the slips and curved point inside radii) and each storage road will take an eight coach train.   You'll need a single slip on the left hand storage entrance to enable bidirectional entry / exit and I tried to avoid reverse curves where I could.  The compromise will be a reduction in the scenic area, but I don't think it will be much. Please feel free to PM me if you want the XtrackCAD file.

 

Cheers

Bryant

[DCB]

7 hours ago, YorkSouth said:

Thanks, Bryant & David.  I will look into these in detail tomorrow.  I really do want to run 7 or 8 coach trains if possible, so storage is key.  I have ruled out multiple levels for various reasons.
 

David - that is a standard Peco wide crossing on the top right hand side and all curves are within my limits.  I will extract that and send you the detail parts and info.  I really appreciate your draft ideas on how to gain bi-directional access.

 

Many thanks again!
Paul

Hi, yes on blowing it up it is a short crossing, but also on blowing it up the adjacent curve is red, as in outside your set min radius, I make it 1st Radius. There are bits of red on some of the other curves as well.

It seems B McG's plans solve the storage but don't allow the parallel departures which were a feature of many steam age stations not just York.  Parallel arrivals were random once in a blue moon events but simultaneous departures were scheduled with ECML and Leeds trains leaving together and running together as far as Chaloners Whinn Jct.  It seems a bit pointless having 4 tracks and no ability to run trains side by side, its one of the best spectacles on a model railway, especially if a sure footed B16 or B7 departs at the same time as a slippery Gresley Pacific..

[YorkSouth]

Thanks again to both of you for your feedback.

 

I checked again on the crossing at the top right.  The entry to it is, per Anyrail, on a 650mm radius curve but I will see if I can smooth it out some more.  The 'red line' warnings come from any curves which are below 762mm radius curves.  If I set the alert to to 649mm, I have no red lines on the plan at all.

 

Bryant's plan gives me some more ideas, but itself would require taking chunks out of a stair way, which I can't do.

 

Between that and your sketches, I will work on this for a while and report back.

Take care,

Paul

[The Stationmaster]

I might be misreading the scales on all these plans but if this layout is going into a garage will 'the usable area' have access all the way round the outside of the layout footprint?   If it doesn't then you are simply not going to be able to reach some patrts of it from the operating well.

[YorkSouth]

Thanks, Mike.  I do have sufficient access.

Paul

[DCB]

Something is fundamentally wrong here.  Maybe its the grid, 11 ft X 8ft (?)  Streamline track spacing is 50mm or 2" = 6 tracks per foot width, yet 14 parallel roads are shown in 2ft with space to spare.  13 in 2ft is doable with 44mm spacing as long as it is arrow straight but that's tight when some Hornby is 40mm wide (9F).  The storage sidings at 7ft long don't look enough for a loco plus seven bogies.

[YorkSouth]

David, the layout is 5.5m by 3.8m.  I will send you the Anyrail plan via PM.  Not all sidings are long enough and I will check again.

Thanks

Paul 

[Flying Pig]

Granted, the south end of York station is a major job to simplify, but the trackwork I've outlined doesn't look right to me. 

 

[YorkSouth]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and messages.  I have incorporated David C Broad's suggestions and amended the area pointed out by Flying Pig - it was an area that needed another view, for sure. Here's what I have ended up with:

York 12 RM.pdf