Re-motor a Hornby L&Y Pug

[SteveyDee68]

Possibly this should be in the Improving and Modifying RTR Stock forum...

 

When Hornby released their most recent version of the L&Y “Pug”, I am sure I wasn’t the only person who wondered why they didn’t put a smaller motor in it (to reduce or remove its impact upon the cab space) and also why they didn’t model the slide bars properly (they managed it with the W4!)

 

I am wondering has anybody been able to fit the smaller W4 motor to the Pug? I don’t have the technical know-how to be able to see if the idea is a complete non-starter, but the price of a W4 motor as a spare is certainly tempting me to try if someone has already managed it!!

 

HOURS OF FUN!

[Quarryscapes]

You can put a Mashima 1015 in it relatively easily, I attempted to hide it as an oversized firebox with a 3D print, but it was too flexible as a motor mount and kept coming out of mesh. A brass version would work though. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Quarryscapes

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Possibly this should be in the Improving and Modifying RTR Stock forum...

 

When Hornby released their most recent version of the L&Y “Pug”, I am sure I wasn’t the only person who wondered why they didn’t put a smaller motor in it (to reduce or remove its impact upon the cab space) and also why they didn’t model the slide bars properly (they managed it with the W4!)

 

I am wondering has anybody been able to fit the smaller W4 motor to the Pug? I don’t have the technical know-how to be able to see if the idea is a complete non-starter, but the price of a W4 motor as a spare is certainly tempting me to try if someone has already managed it!!

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

They have modelled the slidebars correctly. They always had the covers on.

 

The only one I've ever seen without them is the now preserved one - 19 (Prince) which had the covers removed when in industry.

 

https://lyrtrust.org.uk/our-collection/projects/19-0-4-0-saddletank/

 

Don't go by the Airfix kit as it's wrong. Only the first few had buffers which were quickly changed to dumb buffers.

 

 

I hasten to add. Yes it does need a revamp as it's getting a bit tired now. it's sobering to think it's over 35 years old.

 

Jason

Edited February 19, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[SteveyDee68]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

They have modelled the slidebars correctly. They always had the covers on.

 

And again it shows that you can learn something new every day! Thanks for the information, Jason, and the interesting link to No 19.

 

I'm going to hazard a guess that the connecting rods are a bit "heavy" on the Dapol/Hornby model though, as they seem very large compared to the wheels? 

 

With the wheels and slide bars correct, it seems even more odd (to me) for Hornby not to improve the mechanism - from what I can tell from the advert for the W4 motor, it appears to incorporate a flywheel and that surely must help with the running properties of the Pug? Having said that, I have no idea of what kind of figures are involved to change such a detail for an existing model!

 

Steve S

 

[RexAshton]

19 hours ago, Quarryscapes said:

You can put a Mashima 1015 in it relatively easily, I attempted to hide it as an oversized firebox with a 3D print, but it was too flexible as a motor mount and kept coming out of mesh. A brass version would work though. 

I did this mod on one some years ago. It worked a treat but I did need to make a brass mount to allow adjustment of the meshing. Simple flat brass shim plate with a slightly oversize hole for the gear to go through (to allow movement and two slots for the motor screws to allow adjustment of the meshing, When I did mine the 1015 wasn't available so I used one of the small open frame Mashimas (9 16 I think) which was barely visible once the cab was on.

The other much better but more expensive option would be the HIgh Level Kits replacement chassis kit which puts the motor in the tank and provides a fully detailed cab and backhead.

[The Johnster]

I have a Hornby W4 which I am very impressed with, but am not convinced of the effectiveness of flywheels in small locos that are required to run at low speeds on DC.  The mechanical advantage of the flywheel is minimised by the low motor speeds at the very time you need it most, and the small body means that the size of the flywhel makes it ineffective anyway.  For DCC a stayalive is more effective IMHO, and for DC the space can be better used for ballast, at least untile DC stayalives or unobtainium flywheels are avaialable.  Time was I though flywheels were unconditionally A Good Thing, but I am less convicned deze daze.  They do not actually denigrate a loco's performance, though.

 

The Dapol/Hornby L & Y pug desperately needs a makeover to remove the motor from the cab, a very serious problem on this loco which has such open cab sides and a prominent backhead.  There is only so much that can be effectively disguised with canvas sheets and strategically placed locomen.  This would no doubt double the price of the model.  Slow smooth performance is not the strong point of this model either, from the ones I've seen running at shows, so a new mech based on the W4 is the obvious way to go.  Hornby have  got the gearing probably as high as they can with the W4, being restricted by the driving wheel size to the ratios that can be employed, so there is probably no improvement in performance over the W4 to be had from that direction.  Luckily the W4 manages to deliver useful slow running despite the drawbacks inherent in very small locos for 4mm.

[DCB]

It's quite amazing how folks in the 1960's managed to cram an X04 into Airfix Pugs yet Hornby couldn't motorise it without filling the cab.  Mine has a brass chassis, a motor from a Computer CD drive and 60:1 gearing, slow running isn't great but speed it up to realistic speeds and its pretty good. Flat out at a scale 35 or so its most impressive.  2 more are under construction using the Airfix plastic chassis bushed and reinforced again with small motors, Anchoridge possibly, taken from larger locos they were too gutless to power adequately.

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

It's quite amazing how folks in the 1960's managed to cram an X04 into Airfix Pugs yet Hornby couldn't motorise it without filling the cab.  Mine has a brass chassis, a motor from a Computer CD drive and 60:1 gearing, slow running isn't great but speed it up to realistic speeds and its pretty good. Flat out at a scale 35 or so its most impressive.  2 more are under construction using the Airfix plastic chassis bushed and reinforced again with small motors, Anchoridge possibly, taken from larger locos they were too gutless to power adequately.

 

Nothing to do with Hornby. When this first came out it was vastly better than anything Hornby had produced up to that time. 

 

It was a Dapol model and Hornby have never updated it. I've still got an original one dating from about 1984.

 

Dapol's first totally new model ISTR. The Castle and County don't count as they were left overs from Airfix repackaged. 

 

It also had nothing at all to do with the antiquated Kitmaster kit. ISTR they measured the one at the KWVR.

 

 

Jason

[SteveyDee68]

Thank you for lots of interesting information, thoughts and suggestions. Meanwhile, having received my secondhand Dapol pug, I cannot fathom out how to separate the body from the chassis. Or, rather, upon unpacking, I discovered a motion bracket floating about in the wrapping, quickly followed by a slide bar cover and the cab (which sort of fell off!). Packaged in tightly wrapped bubble wrap inside a margarine tub inside a plastic envelope, I think possibly the bubble wrap pulled bits off, being too tightly wrapped! I digress... 

 

Unfastening several screws (there's no data sheet supplied) it looks like the only way to get the chassis off is to unsolder the power leads to the motor? Oh boy. Me and the soldering iron have been on less than speaking terms since the last time I took her out for a play...

 

I'll look up a Hornby data sheet to download, but anybody have any suggestions or wisdom they might share in regard to this wee beastie? (The loco, not my soldering iron)

 

Steve S

Edited February 24, 2021 by SteveyDee68
Typos!

[RexAshton]

9 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Thank you for lots of interesting information, thoughts and suggestions. Meanwhile, having received my secondhand Dapol pug, I cannot fathom out how to separate the body from the chassis. Or, rather, upon unpacking, I discovered a motion bracket floating about in the wrapping, quickly followed by a slide bar cover and the cab (which sort of fell off!). Packaged in tightly wrapped bubble wrap inside a margarine tub inside a plastic envelope, I think possibly the bubble wrap pulled bits off, being too tightly wrapped! I digress... 

 

Unfastening several screws (there's no data sheet supplied) it looks like the only way to get the chassis off is to unsolder the power leads to the motor? Oh boy. Me and the soldering iron have been on less than speaking terms since the last time I took her out for a play...

 

I'll look up a Hornby data sheet to download, but anybody have any suggestions or wisdom they might share in regard to this wee beastie? (The loco, not my soldering iron)

 

Steve S

Ir you are only looking to remotor you might not need to seperating the body an chassis buy you will need to unsolder the motor wires, You can then remove the motor and its mounting plate by remove the mounting screw. The slidebar covers just clip on and the cab is refitted by gently relocating the three clips into the holes in the chassis and clipping back into position. It's easier to locate the rear one first.