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Advice please on modified GG&N layout


HR_Line
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1 hour ago, Chimer said:

As soon as I posted I thought I could see an improvement ....

 

1009282395_HRgif.gif.d1b3f647251504b4abed17edb0733141.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 


Hi Chris - you could probably add the baseboard joints to help here?  From the pictures there are four sections across the ‘top’ with the fifth being the extension bottom right.  The boards don’t look uniform size, but looks like @HR_Line has wisely placed the joins to minimise curves across joints (quite a feat with this plan): all looks very well built.

 

(Yes, of course I want one...)

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Keith, I just threw my first plan together based on the OP's original sketch - any accuracy is entirely coincidental!  My later additions are just suggestions as to how things might work, obviously needing to be modified to fit reality.

 

Cheers, Chris

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2 hours ago, Chimer said:

As soon as I posted I thought I could see an improvement ....

 

1009282395_HRgif.gif.d1b3f647251504b4abed17edb0733141.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks again Chris - certainly food for thought.

 

I had envisaged the turntable in area B as that will be mountains and I thought it would be fun to have some sheds built into the mountainside. It would also allow two tracks to use the turntable although I don't know if that would be of much benefit.

 

Using area C for sidings would help with the access but I see the issue would be where to put the headshunt. I could swap the point on the green loop that feeds the two southern sidings around (see pic) but that would presumably affect the mainline direction? It would also require a 90 degree crossing over the track going to the turntable from the other direction and it looks like a dogs dinner but might that be the only way to provide a fan of sidings to area C?

 

In my head had imagined two users, each with control of an area (A or C), with B (the turntable) being switchable to both. Whether this works electrically or functionally I know not!

 

IMG_1624.jpg

Edited by HR_Line
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1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:


Hi Chris - you could probably add the baseboard joints to help here?  From the pictures there are four sections across the ‘top’ with the fifth being the extension bottom right.  The boards don’t look uniform size, but looks like @HR_Line has wisely placed the joins to minimise curves across joints (quite a feat with this plan): all looks very well built.

 

(Yes, of course I want one...)

 

You are spot on with regards the joins Keith. There are 5 sections, all of different sizes. They can be seen more clearly on the pic below which was taken before I painted. The white patches that follow the joins are two-part filler that was used to get the levels spot on before the track was laid.

 

The baseboards are joined with DCC Concepts baseboard dowels (3 per join) and the track is soldered onto brass screws although the bridges will be 'dropped in', as will one piece of track due to the angle across the join. So far so good. 

 

 

IMG_1565.jpg

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1 hour ago, HR_Line said:

 

You are spot on with regards the joins Keith. There are 5 sections, all of different sizes. They can be seen more clearly on the pic below which was taken before I painted. The white patches that follow the joins are two-part filler that was used to get the levels spot on before the track was laid.

 

The baseboards are joined with DCC Concepts baseboard dowels (3 per join) and the track is soldered onto brass screws although the bridges will be 'dropped in', as will one piece of track due to the angle across the join. So far so good. 

 

 

IMG_1565.jpg


Hi there again.  The photos are really helpful, thank you.  A few random thoughts:

 

1.    I was just wondering, as the tracks pass through each “Station”, are they level or do they dip?  This will affect whether you can uncouple a train and leave it there to run-round it (if you want to).  If not, I’d suggest the sidings may need to be able to take a train away from the main line for uncoupling.

 

2.  One of the problems I run into regularly when ‘translating’ US plans for UK use is where to put platforms (again: if you want them).  The thought crosses my mind that you could develop the fan of sidings you have in one of the photos in area A into a Terminus station for short trains.  I’m not sure if there’s room for a runround track there too, but with DC cab control you don’t need a run-round, if the ends of terminal roads are isolated and you have a spare locomotive.  Or you may run DMUs / HSTs / Javelins, etc...

 

3.  The original plan had the turntable on the outside, but couldn’t have any loco storage roads off it  (as shown here in the 3-D Scarm render on page 1).  Modellers tend to have more locos these days, so @Chimer’s suggestion has clear merits on that front: storage for 6 spare locos is not excessive.

 

4.  Now we’ve seen the photos, I get why you’d like to settle on track arrangements for A, B and C to finish off (as opposed to my first response).  The turntable you have also needs a hole in the baseboard of course (unlike the Hornby one, for example).  
 

Adding this all up, I’ll make a suggestion (finally responding to the original question :rolleyes: ).

 

Personally, I think I’d be inclined to go with a fan of sidings in area A, with two of them either side of an island platform for short passenger trains.  
If it were me, I’d be inclined to put the turntable in area C - with a fan of engine storage tracks as Chimer had them, but all moved to the other side of the layout.

I’d keep area B largely scenic: even though it is possible to reach into that space from the outside, it means leaning over the raised running lines on the outside (not so easy with 8-year old arms perhaps?).  You could perhaps put a coal mine or quarry in the hillside, with a Goods siding that had an automatic uncoupling ramp?

 

There will of course be other ideas.
 

Keith.

 

 

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Rob, changing that point would mean the access to whatever it serves would be trailing if things keep going the right (British) way round.  This might be a good thing - as discussed earlier, a fan of sidings there could be shunted directly using the main line as the headshunt, which saves space.  But if you did that, it would probably be best to use that point to access area B, and put the point to access area C bottom right, also trailing, as here (no-one makes a compatible right-angle crossing as far as I know) :

 

320262490_HRgif.gif.26d6a50e5ab3462ead39702eb90fedaf.gif

 

That puts the sidings at C at the higher level of course ..... I've also frigged about with the third access point (A) to try to make that trailing, but can't find a way that opens up the space at all.  And if access A has to be facing, any goods sidings there need a headshunt (which is why I chose it for the loco shed).  I've squeezed a headshunt arrangement in, but it isn't pretty.

 

Keith raises the question of a station, which I've ignored so far.  I think you perhaps need to dwell a pause and sort out what you really want to include, what's desirable, and what can be left out, given the various stuff that's been thrown at you in the last couple of days.  Perhaps most importantly, assuming it is one of your "musts", visualise what has to be done to shunt a freight train using a fan of sidings, with some wagons being left in the sidings and others beinbg picked up and taken forward.  And think of the difference in operations depending on whether the loco pulls the train into the sidings from the main line (facing point) or reverses to push it in (trailing point).

 

But the main thing is, you have an entirely workable fun layout already ......

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49 minutes ago, Chimer said:

one makes a compatible right-angle crossing as far as I know) :

The peco code 83 one should work with code 100 or 75, and Atlas do a code 100 one, as well as a bunch of other angles (30, 45 and 60 degrees, either in code 83 or 100)

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17 hours ago, Chimer said:

I think you perhaps need to dwell a pause and sort out what you really want to include, what's desirable, and what can be left out, given the various stuff that's been thrown at you in the last couple of days.  Perhaps most importantly, assuming it is one of your "musts", visualise what has to be done to shunt a freight train using a fan of sidings, with some wagons being left in the sidings and others beinbg picked up and taken forward.  And think of the difference in operations depending on whether the loco pulls the train into the sidings from the main line (facing point) or reverses to push it in (trailing point).

 

 

Wise words Chris. I'm going to take a step back for a day or two and figure out what we really want from the layout. As you suggest, it is easy to get mired in the possibilities and forget that often less is more.

 

Thanks again particularly to you and Keith for your advice; I've learnt a lot over the last two pages and whatever we end up with your help will have been invaluable.

 

I'll report back soon.

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We have deliberated, cogitated and digested, and I think I've found a layout that suits our needs pretty well. Hopefully it strikes a good balance between having plenty of interest to the driver/signalman without cramming so much in that there is no room for scenery or industry.

 

I've made the points off the loops trailing and will use the loop as the headshunt.

 

I'm still undecided about stations; there could be a double sided platform inside the blue loop although it would be obscured by the double girder bridge, and I could also space the fan of sidings differently to create a terminus.

 

Plan and pics attached for your perusal.

IMG_1629.jpg

IMG_1633.jpg

IMG_1634.jpg

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Assuming those arrows are the direction of travel, you've designed for right hand running. Which is probably no problem if you're 8, nor if you're modeling German or American railways.

 

You're too far gone to revise it for trailing access to sidings with left hand running, though, so it's probably as good as you're going to get.

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2 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Assuming those arrows are the direction of travel, you've designed for right hand running. Which is probably no problem if you're 8, nor if you're modeling German or American railways.

 

You're too far gone to revise it for trailing access to sidings with left hand running, though, so it's probably as good as you're going to get.

Yes, that's correct. It's not a major issue for us and is a worthwhile sacrifice I think.

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Hi Rob, I just happen to be online at the moment: I like the pictures - would certainly have a “Wow!” factor for an eight-year old and the sidings make good use of the space, especially in area C.  The turntable is accessible - as @Chimer had it but moved a bit nearer the edge (with just the last two engine sidings tucked under the high level) and the harder to reach area B is less busy.

 

I see how you’ve resolved the problem of making the points “trailing” rather than “facing” - by going for right-hand running as on the original plan.  I hadn’t thought of that as a solution, but why not?  If anyone questions this (it is a necessary compromise with this plan), then Rule 1applies.

 

I think at this point I’d be wanting to press on - as you say, leave deciding where to put the official station till later*.

______________
*In my experience, kids will often decide there is a station wherever they want to stop a train.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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I would probably have stuck with left-hand running and facing access into a goods yard with kick-back sidings, but it's a toss-up really.  Your way definitely gives better length sidings.

 

But I would advise against a terminus.  It would be Hotel California in reverse - you can leave, but not return (apart from backing in when you're done circulating).

 

Looking forward to seeing it sceniced.

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