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Hornby HM 6000


The Johnster
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I've been and gorn and preordered one of these controllers, which work by means of Bluetooth and an app on your phone.  For £30, you get a DC controller capable of operating 'two circuits', presumably not simultaneously, and providing basic sound played  through your phone, which of course can be connected to headphones.  The sound is not really the issue, and the attraction for me is the combination of untethered control and the fact that the 'two circuits' will eliminate a switch and some wiring.  But I wonder if the finesse of control will match my existing ancient but perfectly working Gaugemaster power controller?  One can program accelleration and braking rates, and it is a bit remenscent of the old fashioned feedback controllers of a few decades ago, Compspeed, AGW, and such, but TTBOMK is not actually a feedback device, and can be used with the coreless motor in my new Bachmann 94xx.

 

Comments from those who know more than I do about this sort of thing will be welcome.  The thing is due in about a month or so and if there's any  reason I really shouldn't bother with it, now would be a good time for a heads upso I can cancel!  Hornby made a big deal of this when they announced it about 18 months ago, and it's been put back a bit and not promoted very strongly in the meantime, but seems to have acquired an emergency stop facliity, progammable top speeds for each circuit, and the sounds, which are mostly station noises and whistles, in the meantime, while the price has remained steady.

 

The app that goes with it includes a layout designing feature which I'm not really interested in, and there are add-on units for control of points, signals, lights  and so on.  On my relatively small BLT I'm happy to hand operate points, but signal and lighting would be nice to have on the phone.  The power supply is from a 12vdc plug in transformer, but I'm hoping to get away with using the output from the Gaugemaster, which presumably means I can use it as a voltage limiter.  I would like to keep it 'in circuit' to enable me to use, perhaps to control the colliery loco while the HM 6k is accellerating a train gently out of the terminus, and I am wondering if there are any other ways in which the two controllers can be used with one another.

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I have been testing this kit and it works fine.

Each HM6000 module has two outputs each of which controls a loop of track, by sending 0-12vDC from the app control screen.

Up to four track operating modules can be controlled by the app, hence up to eight isolated loops, and you can transfer a loco across from loop to loop if you set each loop control slider to the same speed and direction.

Each HM6010 module (which you say you do not need) can be set to operate up to four solenoids, or signals lamps, or street lights and/or one motor driven accessory like a TurnTable. Up to three of these modules can be operated by the app.

Be aware you need a power supply unit for each module which are extra cost items.

An advantage of the system is you can update the modules’ firmware if ever necessary over the air (OTA) by way of Blue Tooth Mesh Forwarding and Provisioning, which is not as difficult as it sounds.

The track builder doesn’t seem to play much part in operating the layout but it allows you to import a standard track-plan or design your own.

At  the app is still undergoing user testing so not available for public view yet, before going live on the various iOS and Android app ‘shops’.

You can find videos of the system being demoed on the Hornby website and YT channel.

i hope this helps.

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11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

.........  The power supply is from a 12vdc plug in transformer, but I'm hoping to get away with using the output from the Gaugemaster, which presumably means I can use it as a voltage limiter.  

 

I'd suggest caution with that approach, unless Hornby publish saying its OK.    A modern 12v switched-mode power supply delivers pretty smooth DC,  with little change as the current demand alters.   An older design of transformer and rectifier delivers very lumpy DC, and usually well over the nominally 12v "advertised" on the box, and less stable.     

 

A switched-mode DC power supply is a cheap commodity item.   

 

- Nigel

 

 

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2 hours ago, RAF96 said:

I have been testing this kit and it works fine.

Each HM6000 module has two outputs each of which controls a loop of track, by sending 0-12vDC from the app control screen.

Up to four track operating modules can be controlled by the app, hence up to eight isolated loops, and you can transfer a loco across from loop to loop if you set each loop control slider to the same speed and direction.

Each HM6010 module (which you say you do not need) can be set to operate up to four solenoids, or signals lamps, or street lights and/or one motor driven accessory like a TurnTable. Up to three of these modules can be operated by the app.

Be aware you need a power supply unit for each module which are extra cost items.

An advantage of the system is you can update the modules’ firmware if ever necessary over the air (OTA) by way of Blue Tooth Mesh Forwarding and Provisioning, which is not as difficult as it sounds.

The track builder doesn’t seem to play much part in operating the layout but it allows you to import a standard track-plan or design your own.

At  the app is still undergoing user testing so not available for public view yet, before going live on the various iOS and Android app ‘shops’.

You can find videos of the system being demoed on the Hornby website and YT channel.

i hope this helps.

It does; thank you for this reassurance. 

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Thanks.  I have existing transformers of this sort that output 12vdc, but if the system requires 15 I will have to splash out for the Hornby device.  Hornby's own promotional blurb states 12vdc, though, and underpowering it can't do any actual harm, can it?  It may not provide sufficient voltage to get to work, of course.

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Thanks.  I have existing transformers of this sort that output 12vdc, but if the system requires 15 I will have to splash out for the Hornby device.  Hornby's own promotional blurb states 12vdc, though, and underpowering it can't do any actual harm, can it?  It may not provide sufficient voltage to get to work, of course.

 

If they are good quality power bricks it should not do any harm. I suspect you'll see a reduction in maximum speed compared with the Hornby brick.

 

Do not attempt to power it from an old H&M controller or similar. It could well damage your HM6000.

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Thoiught  i'd have a look at the details over on the Hornby website but the 'tech spec' is more than a little lacking in details <rolls eyes>

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/hm6000-app-based-analogue-control-r7292

 

I'd be a bit wary of running at 12V if it's specified 15V (somewhere?) as the power supply is presumably supplying the bluetoooth receiver and whatever other electronics are in there, not just track power.

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20 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Thoiught  i'd have a look at the details over on the Hornby website but the 'tech spec' is more than a little lacking in details <rolls eyes>

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/hm6000-app-based-analogue-control-r7292

 

I'd be a bit wary of running at 12V if it's specified 15V (somewhere?) as the power supply is presumably supplying the bluetoooth receiver and whatever other electronics are in there, not just track power.

 

I doubt it. The Bluetooth chips will be running on 3.3 volts from a voltage regulator in the HM6000.

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7 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

I doubt it. The Bluetooth chips will be running on 3.3 volts from a voltage regulator in the HM6000.

True, but I wouldn't like to second guess how they derive the 3V3 from the 15V; linear regulator, dc/dc converter, simple potential divider?. Cost would suggest the latter. I'm not saying it won't work of 12V but I certainly wouldn't want to guarantee it. I would think if it could run off 12V Hornby would be shipping it with their existing 12V PSU - capacity permitting.

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2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

True, but I wouldn't like to second guess how they derive the 3V3 from the 15V; linear regulator, dc/dc converter, simple potential divider?. Cost would suggest the latter. I'm not saying it won't work of 12V but I certainly wouldn't want to guarantee it. I would think if it could run off 12V Hornby would be shipping it with their existing 12V PSU - capacity permitting.

 

Of course we can't be sure but I suspect the reason for the 15V is so that it can actually deliver 12V to the track. Anyway, I can't see any harm in giving it a shot. If the results are disappointing he can always get the 15V brick.

 

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I’ve downloaded the App from the Apple App Store today. Though the controllers haven’t arrived yet it gives links to the YouTube tutorials and the Instruction manual pdf. 

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4 hours ago, Moonraking Red said:

Tried the layout design part of the app, but failed miserably. Seems to have a bug when resizing.

 

 

The track builder is not required to operate the layout. It is more a planner so you can list the bits needed.

All the operational stuff is done on the other screens.

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I have had it running today on an iPad using all seven modules (4x track modules and 3x accessory modules) - the max the app can cope with - and it works fine.

 

I shall give it a whirl from the phone tomorrow, but I see no reason why it should not work just as well.

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4 hours ago, Moonraking Red said:

Tried the layout design part of the app, but failed miserably. Seems to have a bug when resizing.

 

 

Which platform was that on? Also the software version the platform is running on please.

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@Moonraking Red

I have reported it to the developers for you.

I will check on my iPad as all I did was grab a standard track-plan.

I have also seen the low performance flag but blamed that on my iPad Air getting on a bit.

 

Edit - I have checked on an iPad Air v12.5.3 and an iPad Pro v14 and pinch and zoom is Ok as is create a layout or amend an imported layout, but create bill of materials does not work and I have seen the  low performance flag on both iPads.

It is thought the resize board action is triggering the low performance flag which crashes the app. A fix will generate a hot update which will flag in the app.

 

Edited by RAF96
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I suppose you could always stick the mobile phone in your pocket,  however, where do you place the tablet when you need to attend to something on the track?   The Signal Box video from back in March 2020 makes a big deal of the emergency stop function.  In essence all it does is cut power to everything or just to the HM controller in question.  Is this really necessary?  When re-initiated what current draw would there be when everything previously selected is powered up?  Are all previous presets remembered or does the operator need to basically start all over again?  Depending on the bluetooth control device used what is the maximum number of controller and accessory units that may be paired to the phone device?  Would this be a limiting factor in the suitability of the system.  Personally,  I would have preferred a wifi system utilising a router/modem and separate controller where I believe there is no limit to the number of devices nor the number of accessories that may be operated simultaneously. 

 

I think that the system would be excellent for a smallish shunting/end to end type layout,  reducing a lot of the wiring needed to activate points, signals, etc.  The design of the layout could also incorporate somewhere to place your tablet when not in your hands.  On a small layout the tablet could have a semi-permanent location and basically perform as a tethered controller without the need for a multitude of wires as would be seen on a conventional control panel.  I am warming up to the idea but definitely not with a mobile phone (perhaps the largest android tablet I could find).

 

What is the next step, a bluetooth receiver in  each loco to enable individual loco control?  Wait a minute Bachmann already went down that path with seemingly little public success.

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Continuing from the other thread, which has been rightly closed and this one linked to, I would agree that the 'feel' of the control knob, the sort of direct connection that can be established between your brain, your thumb or finger on the knob, and the loco, will be missing in the HM6000 system; a slider on a touch screen will not feel the same.  It may be that slightly different driving techinque will be required and that this will have to be developed; this is in any case a very personal and individual thing.  The new technique might even be an improvement in performance (which in my case is very much related to smooth stop/starts and well controlled slow speed,  We shall see.

 

As I've said on the other thread, my intention is to retain my existing Gaugemaster power controller and continue to use it alongside the HM6k.  I suspect this may evolve into a horses for courses situation, in which I use the GM as I do now but pick up the phone and use HM6k when I am out of my seat or have propelled it to the other end of the layout out of reach of the GM.  I imagine I will be able to develop the technique of using a slider one handed with the same hand as is holding the phone without having to look at it except maybe a glance at the start of the operation, and it may be that a combination of this technique and the incremental accelleration and braking/inertia features will give the best results.  Inertial braking on a smallish BLT is a bit fraught, though...

 

It may even be possible to use the controllers in combination with each other simultaneously.  For instance, if the GM is set for the train to run at a low speed, it can be used to smoothly start and stop it, while any faster running can be achieved with the HM6k.  But it is possible that under these conditions higher than recommended voltages may find their way to the locos, and care will have to be taken.  All part of the experiment, and as I regard it as an experiment I must perforce be prepared to accept failure.  Even failed experiments are valuable in that they eliminate ideas that don't work, and one can learn from them (even if what you learn is not to do it again!).

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Perhaps a naive question but would it be possible to utilise the Hornby App accessory controller to operate the yet to be released Rails accessory "decoders" to control point motors as the info on the Rails site states that analogue DC may be used to operate the unit?  I like the polarity switching aspect of the Rails unit.   I assume all that the Hornby accessory controller does is convert a bluetooth signal to analogue DC to operate an accessory such as a point motor. 

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@GWRfan

The HM6010 is essentially a DCC type accessory decoder (R8247) in that it receives a signal (BLE) from a command station (the App) and ports the correct operating voltage type to the accessory.This can be a pulse for solenoids, on red - off - on green for signals, on - offfor street lights, etc or on-off for a turntable motor.

 

As such unless the Rails or any other make acc decoders understand a BLE signal then the answer is no they will not work with this app.

 

@Johnster

The HM600 module is essentially a pair of DCC type decoders that receive the BLE signal from the app and send variable voltage (0-12) to the track (2 channels). I would not like to guess what effect feeding voltage to the track from a piggy back controller would have if fed back into the Hornby module, but I would hope the short circuit would kick in as self protection.

 

Something that is not clearly documented is that you can only run the App from one device, meaning you cannot have multiple operators each with their phone or tablet doing their own thing. You can load the App onto multiple devices but the BLE Meshing does not cover multiple operating device hosting at the same time.

Edited by RAF96
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