Private locomotives running regularly on BR metals

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Ceod Ely Colliery's Austerity Hunslet used to run down the track of the Llantrisant-Penygraig branch as far as the top end of Llantrisant Yard; I know this because I somewhat unofficially took it down there and back light engine with my mate Graham Thomas in the summer of 1969.  He drove back up and I fired; too much actually (under the influence of reading tales of derring-do by Prof. Tuplin on the Cornish Riviera), as she was blowing off when we gave her back to the NCB crew...

 

This may not have been entirely 'legitimate' and I would not like to say that the line was owned or operated normally by the NCB down that far, but I doubt I'll get anyone living into trouble for revealing our sins now.  It's not as if we took the loco without permission...  IIRC there was a stop board we were told not to pass, but this was south of Ynysmaerdy.  It was a very pleasant trip on a summer Saturday; we'd cycled up to Coed Ely from Cardiff, which impressed the NCB guys who felt a bit sorry for us as they'd just finished work for the day and were getting ready for disposal. 

 

The friendliness of NCB establishments in South Wales was matched only be astonishment that anyone was interested in their locos; most of us took up the practice of frequenting collieries after the end of BR steam.  It was almost impossible not to get footplate rides and you were usually given a chance to 'have a go', but this escapade, unsupervised and effectively giving a couple of teenagers as loco in steam to play with, was exceptional.  I had driving and firing opportunities at Maesteg and Abersychan around this time as well; stalled with two empty 16t minerals on the 1 in 14 at Gelynos!  Happy days...

Very naughty actually because you were on a single line without proper authority.  Summary dismissal offence although I never heard of anyone being summarily dismissed for this one but definitely a Form 1 job with a pretty severe punishment such as suspension for a few days and probably reduction in grade.   Mind you if you had met somebody legitimately coming in the opposite direction you might have got an even more  severe outcome

[The Johnster]

Naughty all right, and had we survived meeting anything coming the other way we'd have been no doubt liable to criminal proceedings.  But we were 'civilians', and any railway or NCB disciplinary action would have presumably been on the heads of the NCB crew and their foreman, who were all party  to the escapade.  The foreman was on his way home and sort of nodded his assent, which I doubt would have stood up in court.  The driver was presumably still legally in charge of the loco, and would presumably been the one to have been held to account.  Not sure now (it's a long time ago) where the stop board was but we could see the top end of Llantrisant yard in the distance.  It was an NCB stop board, not a BR one. 

 

They were a bit miffed that I returned the fire built up to the extent of blowing off, understandably as they then had to dispose the loco; we offered to help with this but this was not taken up. 

[CEINEWYDD]

Wish I had known about this Johnster, as I would have walked down to the end of our street and joined in!!

[br2975]

 Firstly, I must caution 'The Johnster'

 

"You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence, if you do not mention when questioned, something you later rely on in court"

 

A few observations.....

(i)

Naughty all right, and had we survived meeting anything coming the other way we'd have been no doubt liable to criminal proceedings. 

You were, and it could be argued, you still are.

(ii)

But we were 'civilians', and any railway or NCB disciplinary action would have presumably been on the heads of the NCB crew and their foreman, who were all party  to the escapade.

The law doesn't see it that way.

(iii)

The foreman was on his way home and sort of nodded his assent, which I doubt would have stood up in court. 

The NCB, who are the 'owners' of the locomotive, would argue that 'the foreman' had no lawful authority to permit you or any other unqualified person to drive their locomotive, anymore than they would allow you, an unqualified outsider to drive one of their excavators, or operate the winding engine.

Ignorance is no defence.

(iv)

The driver was presumably still legally in charge of the loco, and would presumably been the one to have been held to account. 

Whether he was in charge, is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned.

 

In addition

(a)

The southern outlet from NCB Coed Ely was at MP 3.01 ( Coed Ely signal box had been located at MP 3.00 )

(b)

You state you drove far enough to see 'Llantrisant yard' which commences at Mwyndy Junction,  located at MP. 0.43.

(c)

Therefore, by your own admission, you drove an NCB loco for some 2 miles on BR metals.

(d)

Whilst the William Bagnall locomotive was issued with a BTC registration plate, namely 2746  of 1958, that relates to the condition of the engine and its' suitability to operate only on strictly identified BR trackwork, and by suitably qualified and authorised employees of the locomotive owner, in this case the NCB.

 

So, in light of your admissions, and the foregoing......................here is a piece of paper for you.................. read it carefully;

 

CHARGED:-

"At Coed Ely, Tonyrefail in the County of Glamorgan, between December 31st 1968 and January 1st 1970, for that you, 'The Johnster' without having the consent of the owner or other lawful authority, did take a conveyance (namely a William Bagnall steam railway engine, No.75159)  for your own or another’s use, or, knowing that such conveyance had been taken without such authority, drove it, it or allowed yourself to be carried in or on it.

Contrary to:- Sec. 12 (i) Theft Act, 1968.

 

Your legal representative may also need to be aware of the following;

 

Section 12(4A) allows for proceedings for this offence to be commenced outside the six month summary time limit imposed by section 127 of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980. 

Proceedings for such offences may be commenced

The “relevant day” is defined by section 12(4B) and for most purposes will mean the day on which sufficient evidence to prosecute came to the knowledge of the prosecutor.

NOTE:-

In this case, 'the relevant day' could be argued as being 5th. March, 2021 when the offence was admitted, in writing, by  the defendant. 

 

Section 12(4A) specifies that this does not affect the right of a jury to convict of the offence as an alternative verdict to theft under section 12(4).

 

If, you chose to plead guilty to the above offence, other indictable offences being considered, contrary to the Offences Against The Person Act, 1861 'may' be either 'left on the file' or 'adjourned sine die'

 

It may be many years since I typed out charges "off the top of my head" ; but you never lose it........................

.

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Next case, please !........................or, it'll all go away, for the price of a pint of IPA, at Chapter....

Edited March 10, 2021 by br2975

[Northmoor]

If you're retired, does writing that constitute "impersonating a police officer"?

[br2975]

37 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

If you're retired, does writing that constitute "impersonating a police officer"?

Not as far as 'The Police Act, 1996" is concerned; which states:- .

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by br2975

[The Johnster]

You’ll never take me alive, copper; oh, all right, an IPA at Chapter as soon as it re-opens, then.  

[The Stationmaster]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

You’ll never take me alive, copper; oh, all right, an IPA at Chapter as soon as it re-opens, then.  

Don't you worry - once the lockdown is off he knows where to find you on at least one day of the year unless you avoid a certain Scout 'hut'   And as he is often on the door on that day you won't stand much chance of avoiding him   

[johnofwessex]

What in earth are Railway Modellers doing at an Arts Centre??  (Chapter)

 

[ardbealach]

11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

You’ll never take me alive, copper; oh, all right, an IPA at Chapter as soon as it re-opens, then.  

Hope you can at last all meet and agree! (AM)

[The Johnster]

Don't worry folks; I know Brian of old and how to deal with him (the down side of this is that he knows me of old and how to deal with me as well).  He drinks in Chapter because it's sort of been adopted by the less scary sort of Cardiff City hooligans, sorry, er, supporters; they meet there before home games for a beer, or perhpas a Dubonnet spritzer, and some rubbish middle class food with a posh name on a bed of rocket and no calories...  At least it is possible to get an IPA among the craft ales that taste of wierd stuff. 

[johnofwessex]

47 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Don't worry folks; I know Brian of old and how to deal with him (the down side of this is that he knows me of old and how to deal with me as well).  He drinks in Chapter because it's sort of been adopted by the less scary sort of Cardiff City hooligans, sorry, er, supporters; they meet there before home games for a beer, or perhpas a Dubonnet spritzer, and some rubbish middle class food with a posh name on a bed of rocket and no calories...  At least it is possible to get an IPA among the craft ales that taste of wierd stuff. 

 

But how many Chapter regulars would know what to do with a steam locomotive?

[The Johnster]

Most of them wouldn't know what one was.

[br2975]

2 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

What in earth are Railway Modellers doing at an Arts Centre??  (Chapter)

 

A reasonable selection of beers, in my case.

.

However, I couldn't see me ever sitting at a table chatting with many of the members / regulars - 

.

Nor could I see me using their cinema, to watch some subtitled Japanese movie, depicting a doomed love affair twixt an unemployed geisha and an ageing, destitute fisherman.

.

The expressionist dance classes hold no appeal either.

.

Only the beer appeals

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by br2975