Ruston's Industrial locomotive and wagon workshop thread.

[Kevin Johnson]

This is looking good Dave, Nice work on the glazing.

[Ruston]

Nearly done now. I have fitted some sandboxes. They are the same as on a Brush-Beyer Peacock 0-4-0DE and the 'boxes are from Mike Edge. The cab needs the interior finishing, and I may do that dropped side window again. The cab then needs to be fixed in place.

 

Other than that, it only needs brakes, as far as building is concerned. It has had some weathering but needs more yet.

 

A plain DCC decoder has been fitted, enabling it to be run on Charlies/Watery Lane. It surprised me that even with the long overhang at the rear, it can still pull or propel a train on the tight curve.

 

 

 

[Ruston]

A couple of shots of a weathering and sound-fitting commission that I've just completed. You'll probably see it next on White Peak Limestone & Tarmacadam.

 

It really fits in at Charlie's scrapyard. I want to keep it!  I will give it back but I think it needs a bit more test-running yet.

[MarshLane]

2 hours ago, Ruston said:

 

Did that start off as. B4 0-4-0T?

 

Rich

[Ruston]

3 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

 

Did that start off as. B4 0-4-0T?

 

Rich

It still is a B4. I've only weathered it. I also put DCC sound in, and added some lead inside. It couldn't even pull 6 wagons before.

[sb67]

That B4 looks superb Dave, the weathering is top drawer! 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Those outer cab back windows on the Brush look candidates for glue'n'glaze, worth a punt?

 

Mike.

[Ruston]

On 01/06/2021 at 06:44, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Those outer cab back windows on the Brush look candidates for glue'n'glaze, worth a punt?

 

Mike.

I tried it on the non-viewed side. I don't like it - too much distortion. I use it on small circular windows on steam engines but for anything else it's a no from me.

 

With no sign of High Level gearboxes being available any time soon, I have recently been looking at using N20 gearmotors again.

 

I've used several in the past but all have required the drive from the 'box to be turned through 90 deg. by use of bevel gears. These are a faff and take up a lot of space in OO. There has recently appeared a configuration where the drive is already turned through 90 deg. but only on one side and the output shaft is of only 3mm dia and with a D-shape at the end.

 

I have altered one to drive at both sides and to take a 1/8th axle for Gibson wheels. I'm just looking at what I can put it in.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Ruston

[cctransuk]

34 minutes ago, Ruston said:

I have altered one to drive at both sides and to take a 1/8th axle for Gibson wheels. I'm just looking at what I can put it in.

 

Very, very interesting!

 

Presumably this could take a Markits axle?

 

What is the width over the gearbox - would it fit between OO frames?

 

CJI.

[Asterix2012]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Very, very interesting!

 

Presumably this could take a Markits axle?

 

What is the width over the gearbox - would it fit between OO frames?

 

CJI.

Found or with a 90 degree drive on both sides.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC3V-6V-9V-12V-Micro-Mini-N20-Gear-Motor-Full-Metal-Gearbox-Dual-Shaft-Robot-Car-/254942535064?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

 

Sorry cannot seem to be able to insert the image on this phone.

[Ruston]

12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Very, very interesting!

 

Presumably this could take a Markits axle?

 

What is the width over the gearbox - would it fit between OO frames?

 

CJI.

It is about 10mm wide. Markits axles are 1/8th of an inch, so, yes, it will take one. I'm probably going to fit this one into a Hudswell Clarke diesel.

 

11 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

Found or with a 90 degree drive on both sides.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC3V-6V-9V-12V-Micro-Mini-N20-Gear-Motor-Full-Metal-Gearbox-Dual-Shaft-Robot-Car-/254942535064?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

 

Sorry cannot seem to be able to insert the image on this phone.

The same work would be needed on the dual shaft version as the axle is still 3mm and with D-shapes on the ends. I have one but I'm keeping it for an O gauge chain-drive loco. A Delrin sprocket and chain on each side and it will be perfect for a Ruston 48 or 88DS.

[Barclay]

I'm interested to see what you did. Presumably ream the outer bearings to 1/8" ? Was it easy to remove the gear and re-fit it?

[PenrithBeacon]

14 hours ago, Ruston said:

I tried it on the non-viewed side. I don't like it - too much distortion. I use it on small circular windows on steam engines but for anything else it's a no from me.

 

With no sign of High Level gearboxes being available any time soon, I have recently been looking at using N20 gearmotors again.

 

I've used several in the past but all have required the drive from the 'box to be turned through 90 deg. by use of bevel gears. These are a faff and take up a lot of space in OO. There has recently appeared a configuration where the drive is already turned through 90 deg. but only on one side and the output shaft is of only 3mm dia and with a D-shape at the end.

 

I have altered one to drive at both sides and to take a 1/8th axle for Gibson wheels. I'm just looking at what I can put it in.

I am thinking of doing much the same thing as my experience of using bevel gears has been patchy at best. Trying to bore out the 3mm holes to 1/8" using hand tools or a drilling machine/vice is not very productive! It might be better to reduce the i/d of Gibson wheels using brass tube.

One thing, though. The eBay link you provide says that these motors have a minimum speed, so I'm wondering if they're suitable for model railways

Edited June 2, 2021 by PenrithBeacon

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I am thinking of doing much the same thing as my experience of using bevel gears has been patchy at best. Trying to bore out the 3mm holes to 1/8" using hand tools or a drilling machine/vice is not very productive! It might be better to reduce the i/d of Gibson wheels using brass tube.

One thing, though. The eBay link you provide says that these motors have a minimum speed, so I'm wondering if they're suitable for model railways

 

These motor gearboxes come with a choice of four reduction ratios.

 

My calculations indicate that a loco with 5'-0'' driving wheels would have a maximum speed of 60 mph. with the 95 - 381 RPM ratio gearbox, and a maximum speed of 25 mph. with the 34 - 136 RPM ratio gearbox.

 

The lower speed quoted is that for 3 volts - all motors have a minimum speed of 0 RPM at 0 volts.

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

9 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

These motor gearboxes come with a choice of four reduction ratios.

 

My calculations indicate that a loco with 5'-0'' driving wheels would have a maximum speed of 60 mph. with the 95 - 381 RPM ratio gearbox, and a maximum speed of 25 mph. with the 34 - 136 RPM ratio gearbox.

 

The lower speed quoted is that for 3 volts - all motors have a minimum speed of 0 RPM at 0 volts.

 

John Isherwood.

 

I have just ordered five of the 381 RPM items for mixed traffic locos, and a couple of the 136 RPM ones for trip locos.

 

I cannot see that reaming / boring them out from 3.0 to 3.175 mm. bore should be too difficult.

 

CJI.

[Ruston]

7 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I am thinking of doing much the same thing as my experience of using bevel gears has been patchy at best. Trying to bore out the 3mm holes to 1/8" using hand tools or a drilling machine/vice is not very productive! It might be better to reduce the i/d of Gibson wheels using brass tube.

Good luck with that. You'll need some very thin-walled tube and I don't fancy your chances of getting it all straight enough that your wheels don't wobble. I never open out holes with a drill - that's what broaches and reamers are for!

 

8 hours ago, Barclay said:

I'm interested to see what you did. Presumably ream the outer bearings to 1/8" ? Was it easy to remove the gear and re-fit it?

I drilled out the ends of the hollow spacers/rivets at one side only. I unscrewed the two screws that hold the motor to the gearbox and then removed the final drive gear and shaft.

 

A short length of aluminium tube was put over the shaft so that one end would bear on the gear and then the gear was pressed off in a vice. I think the gear was shrunk on as it took quite some force and went with a bang when it came off!

 

The holes in the brass plates of the gearbox were easily opened out using a broach and reamer. The same treatment was given to the steel gear, although this took a lot more effort as I guess it is hardened.

 

The gear was fixed to the new axle using Loctite. The spacers were discarded and replaced by some standard 1/8th top hat bearings, so the axle will have some sideplay.

[PenrithBeacon]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

Good luck with that. You'll need some very thin-walled tube and I don't fancy your chances of getting it all straight enough that your wheels don't wobble. I never open out holes with a drill - that's what broaches and reamers are for!

...

I actually used a drill and then a 1/8" reamer: heyho. A major part of the problem was that the shank of the bevel gear wasn't concentric with the bore, but the bore appeared to be accurate to the bevel gears. So, holding the gear's shank in a vee-slot on the machine vice to drill and ream the bevel gear out to 1/8" was fraught and resulted in an end-thrust being applied to the axles. Not good.

As far as drilling and reaming out Gibson wheels, no big deal, done it before. In this case it will need more than one drill to prevent the tendency of drills to screw themselves into the workpiece and a length of 4mm X 3mm brass tube, It would be better to do it on a lathe, but I don't have one of those, so the machine vice and a Proxxon drilling machine will have to do it. As I say, it has been done before, it just takes time and attention to detail.

[F-UnitMad]

On 29/05/2021 at 17:56, Ruston said:

Superglue, cyano, it's all the same thing, isn't it?

 

And now for something less boring, instead.

 

It's had a test run on straight DC control and all seems well with the new motor. It's had some paint thrown at it and I have begun to glaze the cab. It's a slow process as I'm having to cut and file to shape individual panes of thick clear plastic. On etched kits I usually put a rought-cut sheet of thin clear plastic behind the windows, but with the cab walls being thick plasticard I've had to make indicidual panes so they can be made to hide the wall thickness. The cab isn't yet fixed in place on the body.

It doesn't have any brake gear and the Class 08 parts can't be used as the pull rods are on the outside of the wheels but are on the inside on the Brush. It also needs cab steps and new sandboxes to be made.

Some detail painting remains to be done and, of course, weathering. There are some more handrails and other details to add, too.

 

Just come across from Charlie Strong's Clearly I have completely missed this Thread before

 

Will start at the begining when I get chance. Your weathering & detailing is superb, Dave.

[Ruston]

This may end up a dismal failure. I have only ever scratchbuilt one 0-6-0 before and have never done anything with a jackshaft before, which is probably as bad, if not worse, than doing an 0-8-0. The chassis is one that has multiple uses. In this instance it is designed to fit Corbs' 3D-printed Hudswell Clarke diesel body. I don't actually have the body yet, but it is designed to fit on a Class 03 chassis and as I have an 03 body, I have reverse-engineered it.

 

At the moment, I don't have enough wheelsets, so it's being trialled as a long wheelbase 0-4-0.

I'm trying the N20 gearmotor unit. I'm also trying something else that I have never done before and that is to have the wheelsets drop out. They are guided by hornguides and retained by a keeper/pickup plate.

The rods are temporary and will be jointed and will also be laminated to be thicker. The centre axle will be sprung. The jackshaft has been cut in two and pressed into plastic tube for now. As soon as I can lay my hands on some brass tube I will use that.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Ruston

[AlfaZagato]

Drop-out axles with a keeper plate seems to work just fine for RTR.   No reason why it can't be engineered at home.

 

Shouldn't you engineer the jackshaft to drop out as well, though?   Otherwise you'll only pivot the wheelset away if you need to fuss with it.

[Ruston]

4 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Drop-out axles with a keeper plate seems to work just fine for RTR.   No reason why it can't be engineered at home.

 

Shouldn't you engineer the jackshaft to drop out as well, though?   Otherwise you'll only pivot the wheelset away if you need to fuss with it.

The shaft is split in two and the rods will be held on the crank pins with nuts, so the cranks and shaft can still be removed from the frames.

[Ruston]

It lives!

 

[Ruston]

A bit of a diversion, this one.

 

A while ago I put some wheels out of a Hornby W4 Peckett into a B2 to create a Class C, by also removing the outside cylinders etc.

 

The frame wasn't the correct shape and I have decided the small wheels are better used elsewhere, so it has gone back to being an outside-cylinder engine. Fortunately, I didn't get around to relocating the brake gear closer to the wheels.

The body has been replaced by one that I was given. It looks that bit more modern, with the lower dome and pop valves.

 

The problem with Hornby's B2 is that the wheel flanges are enormous. Those on the W4 are about 0.7mm but on the B2 they are a whole 1mm! They catch on every bit of stray ballast and won't run on my inset track at all. I took the wheelsets out and pulled the wheels off the axles. They were then put in a drill and re-profiled and taken down to 0.6mm by use of gentle pressure from a file.

 

One problem that the loco does have is that I had to tweak the pickups when it had the smaller wheels and they are now rather unreliable. I am looking into ways to shoehorn in a stay alive to fix this and it will also become DCC sound-fitted.

 

The original body will have a proper scratchbuilt chassis to make a Class C again.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

Back to the scratchbuilt frames/Hudswell Clarke project.

 

I have the Railwaymania 3D-printed bodywork. Although it comes as a complete body kit, I am not using the running plate/buffer beams/valances part. The kit part scales at 9ft. wide, which is on the large side, maybe even out of British Railways loading gauge? I have made mine a more reasonable 8ft. 6in. wide. Making it from brass also adds more weight.

Nothing is yet glued or screwed down. The buffers are those provided in the kit and they do look the part, but I am a bit worried about breaking them. I don't know of any turned brass or whitemetal Hudswell Clarke buffers, so I'll have to stick with them and be careful.

[rope runner]

Lanarkshire do some buffers which look suspiciously like that type. 

 

Paul A.