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Diesel Loco Leaving / Entering Terminus Question.


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My layout is a terminus, it has capacity to receive coaches hauled by a single diesel engine.  My question is would it be safe / prototypical to reverse out of the terminus?  I've installed uncouplers as I've always assumed that the prospect would fall into the "dodgy" category (the platform capacity is pretty short, so I don't think an engine either end is an option.)

Any thoughts and suggestions most welcome!

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14 minutes ago, MikeJT said:

I'm assuming you're thinking of a propelling movement back out of the platform to a run round loop?

If so this was common practice at Penzance through the 1980's.

Ok, that's interesting - I could accommodate for that.  I'm completely uneducated in this kind of practice, so forgive the daft questions (!)  

Would they have left with passengers aboard and switched ends at the loop then?

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1 minute ago, Neils WRX said:

Often an 08 would be used to remove the coaches and shunt release the mainline engine.

 

Normal practice would be to have a cross-over in the station.

 

Where is you layout based?

 

Stay safe,

 

Neil

Interesting you should say that, it's pretty much what I've been doing!

My layout is North Kent Coast based, so realism of practice is taking a bit of a back seat - in the interest of variety!

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3 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

I assume that means they were "reversed" out by the same loco that brought them?  Sorry to ask, but I'm not overly familiar with some of the terminology....


Yes that’s correct. A human was at the front of the train giving instructions to the driver either by radio or hand signals.

 

The locomotive then ran round and reversed the coaching stock back in to the platform.

 

Neil

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Barnstaple is another location where empty stock now has to be propelled out of the station.

Rationalisation at Barnstaple has left just a single platform road. On arrival and once passengers have been detrained the stock is propelled out of the platform into a siding where the loco is a run-round. The stock is then propelled back into the platform before the train can depart back to Exeter,

 

cheers

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Thank you chaps, that's really useful!  Just out of curiosity, how does a shunter know that the rake of coaches or vans etc that he/she is pushing into a terminus aren't in danger of hitting the buffers, is it a similar "hand signal/radio" set up? 

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57 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

Thank you chaps, that's really useful!  Just out of curiosity, how does a shunter know that the rake of coaches or vans etc that he/she is pushing into a terminus aren't in danger of hitting the buffers, is it a similar "hand signal/radio" set up? 

 

Usually - and bear in mind some termini had special operating instructions governing propelling movements. These were often those with curved platforms and obscured sightlines which made propelling more hazardous 

 

In general, very busy stations usually employed a shunting engine to remove and platform coaches, but by the later diesel era most seaside and smaller regional termini had dispensed with these as Dmus and fewer parcels trains meant there often wasn't enough work to justify the permanent employment of a shunter. 

 

Today, of course, most timetabled loco hauled passenger trains have a push pull driving carriage at one end. Non push pull trains usually have a loco at each end. The main exceptions tend to be places where weight restrictions or track conditions ban two loco operation (eg Weymouth route from a few years ago). 

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There is a story I read- can't recall where or even whether it was proven or just an urban myth- where a newly qualified Guard was in the 'leading' BG of a train being reversed into Euston and, as instructed, when he neared the stop blocks he applied the brake- only he applied the park brake and not the air brake valve, resulting in an impact.

Again, I do not warrant this story. I have rarely seen trains propelled into Euston in this manner (normally being dragged in by the incoming loco, even if it was just the Willsden 'Shunter' 81).

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4 hours ago, Ray Von said:

Thank you chaps, that's really useful!  Just out of curiosity, how does a shunter know that the rake of coaches or vans etc that he/she is pushing into a terminus aren't in danger of hitting the buffers, is it a similar "hand signal/radio" set up? 

Any loco crew have to 'know the road' so would know where immovable reference markers are such as signals or lamp posts on the platform.  These would be used to help gauge how much distance the train was from the stops.

 

 

Edited by Happy Hippo
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When they were still loco-hauled, some of the Carlisle via Dumfries and Stranraer services were propelled (empty !) out of Glasgow Central to the Centre Sidings where the loco ran round and propelled the train back into the platform. Whereas electrically-hauled trains were simply re-engined at Central.

 

 

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There’s an interesting yarn about Bournemouth West in steam days where the carriage sidings were up a gradient from the platforms. It was not unknown for stock to be rolled down in to the platforms solely under the control of the guard and his hand brake... which was fine until one day he was moving down the train to get to his van and apply the brake when he discovered a non corridor coach was marshalled in the middle of the rake . Cue bent buffers.....

Edited by Phil Bullock
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15 hours ago, Rivercider said:

Barnstaple is another location where empty stock now has to be propelled out of the station.

Rationalisation at Barnstaple has left just a single platform road. On arrival and once passengers have been detrained the stock is propelled out of the platform into a siding where the loco is a run-round. The stock is then propelled back into the platform before the train can depart back to Exeter,

 

cheers

And the origional Dorchester where trains heading North/Up had to reverse into the Up platform.  I know - 'cos I've done it!

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Last Autumn the Down Highland Sleeper was being propelled into Inverness Station by the train loco(s) accompanied by much hand waving and talking into portable radios by railway staff. About three of them relaying info.  The trains used to be class 67 hauled then they introduced 73's which couldn't haul the trains and power the coach electrics so they added a 66 for extra grunt. Sheer genius. One June they regularly used a red 47 "Y Draig Goch" the "Red Dragn" on the Inverness Edinburgh sleeper. More PR Genius.  How long would it take to fit "Rabbi Buns" nameplates?   I digress.

Inverness was about the last UK terminus served exclusively by loco hauled trains in 1985-8.

The train from Aberdeen and from Perth arrived in the east facing platforms 1-4 and  had their stock drawn out to the carriage sidings by the resident Gronk (08) while the train loco. mainly class 47's followed at a respectful distance, maybe a coach length to the platform end signal where it waited for the road to the stabling point.   Out going trains were pushed in by the Gronk amid much hand waving from staff after which the Gronk went to play elsewhere and train loco coupled up.

Kylie and Wuck and Furso trains with 37s arrived in platform 6/7 which faced north, the 37s pushed their own stock out of the platform and ran round on the loop towards the Ness Viaduct and backed the stock back into the platform amid much hand waving. The last arrival may have been stabled in the carriage sidings and the 37s seemed to be stabled on shed.

2or 3 X 37 and 6 or 7 X class 47 was usual on shed in the late evening with 2 X Gronks (08) in that period and no 2 class 47s were alike.

 

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Euston regularly had trains backed in and backed out - plenty of video evidence.

 

It's your railway, do as you feel is most appropriate to your circumstances, take a look at the Bradfield thread for some lovely video of how you can use this with further kickback to add interest to your stock movements.

 

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15 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Euston regularly had trains backed in and backed out - plenty of video evidence.

 

 

They certainly did, in fact if you look at a track plan you'll find some tracks in the station approaches designated as "backing out roads"

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2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

There’s an interesting yarn about Bournemouth West in steam days where the carriage sidings were up a gradient from the platforms. It was not unknown for stock to be rolled down in to the platforms solely under the control of the guard and his hand brake... which was fine until one day he was moving down the train to get to his van and apply the brake when he discovered a non corridor coach was marshalled in the middle of the rake . Cue bent buffers.....

Hello Phil

 

Not sure about that...

 

I have emailed S&D man Peter Smith (one-time of Branksome Depot) to see if he has heard that. I have a feeling that the story has been 'conflated' with a similar event.  

 

This is (technically) off topic for this thread, but thought it ought to be looked into.

 

Brian

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in the 1980's sometimes the last Wick/Thurso to Inverness would go round the rose street curve and be propelled into Inverness station , assume this was "unofficial" and a time saving measure if the train was late or the crew in a hurry to get home!

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There used to be a propelling move out of Blackpool north and then a run round in the carriage sidings then I think a reverse back into the station. I believe it was all done with the same engine I don’t think it was one loco in and one out.

Its all units now so no longer.

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