How do I program the Bachmann 4 TC

[Peter749]

Having purchased the Bachmann/Kernow 4TC a year a so back I now have somewhere to run it

 

So how do you program it?

I have programmed a number of other locos including the Heljan 33/1 to run with it

 

I just have a 3 Function Chip fitted - a Bachmann 36-554

 

And do I need to - can I just run the train without changing the default blanking chip?

 

Thanks

 

Peter

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Peter749

[Butler]

Hi

im having probs with my 4TC as well, but to do with lighting. You have to place another loco on the service track to program it to your desired address. Then re program the other loco later. Im told this is because the controller needs to see the pulse of the motor( hence the juddering on the track) to confirm the info. I’ve done this, but my interior lights don’t work, but head and tail do and  are switcheable, subject of my other thread. But I’m also told by others on here that the 4 TC needs a 6 function decoder to work the interior. I’ve just fitted a 6 function and they still don’t work, so now it seems I need a certain type of chip, which is getting beyond me now.

i am also told by Kernow and others that it needs a chip , otherwise the lights may pack up on DCC.

hope this helps.

B

[Peter749]

Thanks for the info

 

I will contact Kernow to see if they can help with the type of chip required

 

Going to be a pain programming the unit if you need a loco on the track unless I can get away with just having the TBSK where the chip is installed.

 

Peter

[Butler]

Yes , you can program with just the , TBSK, well at least I got the head and tail working. I contacted Kernow on Monday Last with that very question, but not yet had a reply. There is a lot of info on it in my other forum a bit below this one, and some suggestions of chips that do work. This is all such a pain for just lighting! Why don’t they tell you either in the instructions or sales material? Keep in touch if you get anywhere.

B

 

[50033]

As the 4TC is non motorised it only requires a function only chip. You can use a locomotive decoder but your system will need to register a motor to allow any programming hence you may need to put a loco on the programming track with the 4TC. I’ve also just posted in Butlers topic as to my solution. I’m going to see if the other decoders mentioned there have logic outputs. 

[Pete the Elaner]

You only need a load on the decoder to read CVs, not to write changes to them. You can program decoders on the main if you know what you want to program.

I guess this is just changing address from 3 to something else (8001 for instance)?

[Roy Langridge]

If you are planning to do lots of decoder installation, investing in something like the ESU Decoder Tester is a good choice (See http://www.esu.eu/en/products/decoder-tester/)

 

You can check that you have programmed everything as you want it prior to sticking it a loco (or EMU). It has a motor and speaker on it for decoders that need them and does pretty much every interface.

 

Roy

[pheaton]

21 hours ago, Peter749 said:

Having purchased the Bachmann/Kernow 4TC a year a so back I now have somewhere to run it

 

So how do you program it?

I have programmed a number of other locos including the Heljan 33/1 to run with it

 

I just have a 3 Function Chip fitted - a Bachmann 36-554

 

And do I need to - can I just run the train without changing the default blanking chip?

 

Thanks

 

Peter

 

from what I remember the 4tc needs at least a 5 function decoder, if you run it with the blanking chip in place all the lights will be on and you won't be able to turn them off. 

 

You can run it with a 3 function chip but...you won't be able to control the lights....I would say its preferable to run with a chip rather than without, even if it doesn't have enough functions.

 

A function only chip is a good option. I use a 6 function Guagemaster chip in mine.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by pheaton

[john new]

I had the same question and asked Kernow earlier this week (Q - was basically if I DCC fit my 33/1 do I fit the 4TC too?). Their answer -

 

Yes, if you update the loco to DCC, you will have to do the same with the 4TC unit as well, and fit a decoder to it. The Dapol imperium is recommended for the model.

 

Copied from Kernow 's email to me received 23rd Feb.

 

Chip now ordered and received but not yet fitted.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by john new
Punctuation corrected

[RFS]

On 24/02/2021 at 16:28, Peter749 said:

I just have a 3 Function Chip fitted - a Bachmann 36-554

 

This decoder is not suitable as you will not be able to use the interior lights. You need 5 functions for the 4-TC as follows:

 

F0 for head codes. This actually counts as 2 functions as the lights are directional.

F1 allows you to turn off the head codes at number 1 end (ie the end connected to the 33/1 or 73)

F2 allows you to turn off the head codes at number 2 end

F3 is for interior lights.

 

I use the Lenz 21-pin, but other 6 function decoders will be suitable such as the Zimo MX638D.

 

The easiest way of programming it is to place just the coach with the chip installed on your programming track together with a loco and set the address to what you want for the TC.  This will program both so just remove the TC, and reset the loco address back to what it was. 

[Peter749]

On 25/02/2021 at 21:14, RFS said:

The easiest way of programming it is to place just the coach with the chip installed on your programming track together with a loco and set the address to what you want for the TC.  This will program both so just remove the TC, and reset the loco address back to what it was. 

Having programmed both the 33/1 and the 4TC to 33 would it be a problem to leave them the same code?

I would only run the 4TC with the 33

 

Peter

[RFS]

2 hours ago, Peter749 said:

Having programmed both the 33/1 and the 4TC to 33 would it be a problem to leave them the same code?

I would only run the 4TC with the 33

 

Peter

 

Yes that will work fine. 

[Peter749]

1 hour ago, RFS said:

 

Yes that will work fine. 

Thank you

 

Peter

[Butler]

I’ve just heard from Kernow this week they stated quite clearly that “ The 4 TC DOES NOT need a loco on the service track to function correctly, and it’s only the NCE Power cab that requires it. They use  Prodigy, and a Bachmann Dynamis and they both program the 4TC fine as with all other systems they’ve tried”

I havnt tried it yet on its own, but will do tomorow, see if it works. 

B

[Peter749]

It appears having the 4-TC and the 33 as the same number is not a good idea as the functions for the 33 are different to the 4-TC

And as the 4-TC is just a set of coaches you don't have to run it in Multiple with the 33

 

Just received a Dapol Imperium Decoder to fit in the TBSK

 

Peter

[john new]

18 hours ago, Butler said:

I’ve just heard from Kernow this week they stated quite clearly that “ The 4 TC DOES NOT need a loco on the service track to function correctly, and it’s only the NCE Power cab that requires it. They use  Prodigy, and a Bachmann Dynamis and they both program the 4TC fine as with all other systems they’ve tried”

I haven't tried it yet on its own, but will do tomorrow, see if it works. 

B

So if you do have an NCE Powercab can a knowledgable DCC user confirm the option is do a loco and 4TC  together and then reset the loco?

[Butler]

I can’t answer that question for you, sorry, I really don’t know.

B

[RFS]

8 hours ago, john new said:

So if you do have an NCE Powercab can a knowledgable DCC user confirm the option is do a loco and 4TC  together and then reset the loco?

 

That method will work with any DCC system. What Kernow are saying is that most systems, except for NCE Powercab, should allow you to program the TC without the need to have a loco on the track. 

[SRman]

9 hours ago, john new said:

So if you do have an NCE Powercab can a knowledgable DCC user confirm the option is do a loco and 4TC  together and then reset the loco?

 

That works, although what you'll often find with the Powercab is that it works even if it doesn't get the read-back from the decoder.

Anotehr alternative is to put the decoder into a suitable locomotive, program it, then pull it out and install in the TC.

[Peter749]

I was pleased to fit a Dapol Imperium 6 function Decoder and I programmed the 4-TC by just having the TBSK and the DTSO coupled on the program track.

The end lights on the DTSO responded to fwd/rev by changing the Route Indicator Lights and the train lights came on with Fn 3

 

I used my Bachmann Dynamis to program the unit.

 

Thanks for the info Gents

 

Peter

[Butler]

So going back to the 4TC, when I eventually get achip that works it properly, I’ve ordered the Imperium, can I then run it on the same address as the power unit? I’m running it with a 4 Hap from Bachmann, prob don’t need to separate them. The 4 Hap lights all come on with light function, interior and head code, if the 4 TC does the same or swircheable I’d be happy

B 

[Peter749]

I programmed my 4-TC by placing the TBSK with the chip and the Driving trailer coupled on the track.

Give the 4-TC a different number to anything else - I made mine 404 the set number

 

You might pull it with the 4-Hap - however strange that is - and switch the train lights and head/tail lights on/off separately from what is pulling it.

 

In real life the 4-TC only ran coupled to a 33/1, 73 or 74 loco or a 4-Rep emu

 

Peter

 

[Butler]

Thank you all, I seem to be under a misapprehension , I thought the 2 Hap ran with varied emu’s . Designed for high speed operation, and used for whatever. Sorry, it seemed a good idea, didn’t know what to do with my Hap. 

B

[Butler]

Thank you all, I seem to be under a misapprehension , I thought the 2 Hap ran with varied emu’s . Designed for high speed operation, and used for whatever. Sorry, it seemed a good idea, didn’t know what to do with my Hap. 

B

[Butler]

So , ok , I’d like to run it with a 73, I have got a Hornby 73, but it blows chips, so packed it away . The Dapol seems a nice model. Anybody got any thoughts on it?

B