Sutton's Locomotive Works *NEW* Class 25

[The Ghost of IKB]

1 minute ago, irishmail said:

I would say that £30.00 is a big difference!    

Its a subjective issue i suppose.  From my perspective its the difference between getting a loco im very happy with versus getting one  thats a compromise plus change for a wagon.

Of course no one (except a very few in the know)  have actually seen and ran any of these, and the Bachmann hasnt even been showed as a sample, so it could be that any one of them turns out to be the overall winner, but on past form and what we know so far, for me the slw will be the most accurate and will run at least as good as the 24 - which is excellant. So for the sake of 30 quid im buying slw, after all i can buy that wagon another day. 

[The Ghost of IKB]

15 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

All good news - but some say the good old Hornby shell still gives everything a "run for the mun"

 

Beauty is in the eye of and all that

Some people also claim to be Napoleon, im not sure i believe that either!

[dj_crisp]

17 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

All good news - but some say the good old Hornby shell still gives everything a "run for the mun"

 

Beauty is in the eye of and all that

 

Compared to previous offerings yes...

Compared to this offering then no

 

[Crisis Rail]

1 minute ago, dj_crisp said:

 

Compared to previous offerings yes...

Compared to this offering then no

 

 

  In this hobby - nothing surprises me at all.

[irishmail]

5 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Its a subjective issue i suppose.  From my perspective its the difference between getting a loco im very happy with versus getting one  thats a compromise plus change for a wagon.

Of course no one (except a very few in the know)  have actually seen and ran any of these, and the Bachmann hasnt even been showed as a sample, so it could be that any one of them turns out to be the overall winner, but on past form and what we know so far, for me the slw will be the most accurate and will run at least as good as the 24 - which is excellant. So for the sake of 30 quid im buying slw, after all i can buy that wagon another day. 

I do agree the SLW is a far better model, as other have mentioned the SLW 25 is aimed at a different market to the Hel/Baccy versions.  I am tempted to a SLW 25 myself,  when I first saw the first picture of it the other day you could see that it was a 25. 

 

[Paul_sterling]

When I saw the first pic, the blue 25 instantly stood out in that "it 'looks' absolutely right" moment, I had not ordered a Heljan 25 as yet, for no reason other than justifying the cost of it (and waiting to see if it drops later on), but this, this is a different ballgame, the appearance is mouth watering. 

 

well done SLW!

 

Paul. 

 

 

[Roy Langridge]

10 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Morning Roy.

 

I did say that some are perfectly happy with it and even to a point positively promote it  - must be something in the shape?

 

Hence my !

 

Yes it has some positives (right door for one) but I have never quite understood the claims that it is the best shape yet.

 

Bachmann is pretty good if you ignore the imaginary solebar, which funnily enough, the Hornby model has as well. Hornby has an exaggerated step in the cab roof, mould lines, moulded on handrails....

 

Nonetheless, it was very good for its time. I did own 6 or 7 of them, however, it really does not stand up to today's models.

 

Anyhow, Hornby really is OT. Its SLW for me, all the way...

 

Roy

[Mophead45143]

29 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Hence my !

 

Yes it has some positives (right door for one) but I have never quite understood the claims that it is the best shape yet.

 

Bachmann is pretty good if you ignore the imaginary solebar, which funnily enough, the Hornby model has as well. Hornby has an exaggerated step in the cab roof, mould lines, moulded on handrails....

 

Nonetheless, it was very good for its time. I did own 6 or 7 of them, however, it really does not stand up to today's models.

 

Anyhow, Hornby really is OT. Its SLW for me, all the way...

 

Roy

 

More than just the solebar, the current Bachmann offering has some pretty fundamental issues with the cab shape. But like others I am sure Bachmann's new tooling (whenever it appears) won't look out of place next to the SLW one. It just may lack some of the finesse, but who knows!

 

Cameron

[WhiteRoseRambler]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

With announcements like this i’m glad I’m still stuck in the past (DC).

spent all day on the phone today, but all work.. 

so tomorrow i’m in for 2 Blue, maybe a third, 25912 and maybe a green one...

 

not sure about Ethel, I may go with a token Heljan for this, as i’ll never see the front, and I may strip it out and let it be pulled... that said the loco to pull it, will be one of my oldest ever renumbers.. a model of 5407 in LMS black, dating back to the mid80’s, same time as Ethel was ethelling... its no oil painting in todays standards, and the rat might need to give the old ringfield a push!

Forgive me if I have misunderstood your post but if you are thinking of buying a Heljan ETHEL to provide a push you will be disappointed. The Heljan offering does not have a motor. The SLW version, does.

[adb968008]

5 minutes ago, WhiteRoseRambler said:

Forgive me if I have misunderstood your post but if you are thinking of buying a Heljan ETHEL to provide a push you will be disappointed. The Heljan offering does not have a motor. The SLW version, does.

When did that change ? I saw the price hasnt.

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

I would say that £30.00 is a big difference!    

Nothing like the sort of difference people were prepared to pay for the 24 when it first came out tho and the context was will the difference now put people off switching.

 

If the Bachmann is cheaper again the cumulative gap may sway some.

 

If all three of these sell well I would wonder if duplication is actually quite the problem it is always portrayed as - albeit this is a popular prototype with a likely large market.

[The Ghost of IKB]

29 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

When did that change ? I saw the price hasnt.

I seem to think the ethel was always said to be motor less, though i might be wrong. Certainly Heljan ben has said that in various you tube interviews.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

I would say that £30.00 is a big difference!    

How different from the new released class 57 ? Or Hornbys class 50/60’s ? all of which are heading to a decade old, the 50 is nearly two decades... its similar price to what the TPE class 68 is selling.

 

what swings it for me wasnt the price, that was the winning penalty kick.. its the detail upgrade. If its much as a muchness and not head and shoulders above what I have... then why bother ?

 

Much duplication I have ignored because there isnt enough of an upgrade in it. I was kind of on the fence on the AS Class 55, but just as seeing a fault dissuades a purchase, now i’m seeing the upgrade, its kind of hard not to see it..

Edited February 26, 2021 by adb968008

['CHARD]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

 the SLW 25 is aimed at a different market to the Hel/Baccy versions.  

 

 

Strongly disagree.  Compare SLW with the Bachmann 24/1 and it's clearly aimed at the more discerning Type 2 fan.

 

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Bachmann is pretty good if you ignore the imaginary solebar, which funnily enough, the Hornby model has as well. Hornby has an exaggerated step in the cab roof, mould lines, moulded on handrails....

 

 

The upcoming 25/2 from Barwell has the equivalent solebar features and separately added detail of their recent 24/1, which will elevate it away from the Hornby benchmark. 

 

53 minutes ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

More than just the solebar, the current Bachmann offering has some pretty fundamental issues with the cab shape. But like others I am sure Bachmann's new tooling (whenever it appears) won't look out of place next to the SLW one. It just may lack some of the finesse, but who knows!

 

 

See above; it's at the quality level set by the 24/1 and will absolutely sit well in the company of the SLW. 

[adb968008]

Ive got to admit the Bachmann 24/1 is a nice sweet model, Ive 3 of those now, 2x Blue one Green, and very good for the price.

 

heres a comparison of all, except Hornby, todate..

 

 

 

 

the challenge to be overcome on the Bachmann 25, is the visible frame, that on the real thing doesnt exist, its more obscured... the bodyside covers the frame more underneath rather than flush.

 

 

 

 

all the class 24 models arent that bad, and certainly the Bachmann 24/1 and SLW 24/0 will play nicely, the Bachmann 24/0 is ok, as on a 24.. it was partially visible, though its fuel tanks need a going over.

 

 

(note the brute, I acquired that, taking it off a BSK from railtour that arrived at Bury).. stuff needed to be unloaded quick, so we grabbed it and the train went leaving it behind. ;-)

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008

[peak experience]

this model looks fantastic. it really captures the look. 

[caradoc]

15 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

In terms of sales i wonder where this will leave the Bachmann version? Heljan will be first to market, so will get sales, slw wont be too far behind and will be the all singing and dancing,  bells and whistles, albeit more expensive version, so where does the bachy sit? Last to market, probably (by that time) as expensive as slw? Will there be any market share left for the barwell 25/3 version at all i wonder?

 

Perhaps (hopefully) Bachmann will, instead or perhaps as well as, their 25/3 produce a 25/0, a variant which AFAIK no-one has yet produced or proposed. 

 

[andyman7]

I've taken the plunge with a blue TOPS SLW 25 sound fitted. This will be my first SLW purchase, I love what they've done to date but a domino headcode TOPS blue London based Rat is so central to my youth that as a statement piece I'm happy to own it. Indeed it is likely to be the loco de jour for a finescale shelf layout I have been working on and of with for the last few years.
 

However, I haven't cancelled my order for a Heljan one, and still have a few Bacchy ones, a few 'improved' Hornby ones and even a couple of MTK ones. The reason (apart from liking them) is that this enables an MPD or yard scene to be created, with the less finescale offerings in the background - they don't all need to be £300 locos, a bit of £20-a-piece set dressing works out fine.
 

Apropos this thread and the whole 'shape' question, interestingly the one thing I find that makes a real difference with the models is the degree to which the lack of solebar is reflected. It means that the real thing always looked like it didn't have any underpants on. The Hornby one is worst in this areas, not helped by the additional buffer height of the 'old' Hornby/Triang era. The Bachmann one doesn't get this right either but is not quite so obvious. Both Heljan and SLW at last have given us the correct look, but ironically this is something that the MTK kit also got right, and in the background or as a long view a well finished MTK version actually does the job for me.

[The Ghost of IKB]

55 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Perhaps (hopefully) Bachmann will, instead or perhaps as well as, their 25/3 produce a 25/0, a variant which AFAIK no-one has yet produced or proposed. 

 

Is there any cosmetic difference, bar the number of a 24/1 and a 25/0?

[Phil Bullock]

33 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Is there any cosmetic difference, bar the number of a 24/1 and a 25/0?

Boiler On 24 but not on 25/0 If you go to the thread on the Bachmann headcode 24 IIRC there’s a conversion 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Phil Bullock

[EddieK]

My layout project at home is based on a location on the Hull - Scarborough line, which was not normally the territory for Class 25s, but a week ago or so, I stumbled across a report of an excursion from the midland to this line during *my* chosen time period. Shortly thereafter, SLW announce this Class 25. I can see that my credit card is about to take a hammering, especially as I have also justified the presence of an Accurascale Deltic.......

[Roy Langridge]

<rant pedant mode on>

 

I wish we could get away from calling headcode box fitted 24s 24/1 - they are not. Only the first fifty 24s (D5000-D5049) were 24/0 - the remainder (D5050 - D5150) were 24/1s. Of the 100 24/1s only the last 36 (D5114-D5150) had headcode boxes.

 

<rant pedant mode off>

 

43 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Boiler On 24 but not on 25/0 If you go to the thread on the Bachmann headcode 24 IIRC there’s a conversion 

 

 

Close enough that I am sure SLW will have allowed for doing both accurately in the tooling for their headcode box 24.

Roy

[w124bob]

15 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

If the Bachy 25 is as good as their recent 24 with headcode box, then I will be happy to run one or two next to the SLW on order.

 

 

And if you currently want a 25/0 the Barwell route is the only way to go at the moment, I've done it so know whats involved. See here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/150131-Bachmann-headcode-box-24/page/13/#comments

Scroll down for 5170

Edited February 26, 2021 by w124bob
Link added

[Jub45565]

1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said:

Boiler On 24 but not on 25/0 If you go to the thread on the Bachmann headcode 24 IIRC there’s a conversion 

 

 

[Signaller69]

4 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

<rant pedant mode on>

 

I wish we could get away from calling headcode box fitted 24s 24/1 - they are not. Only the first fifty 24s (D5000-D5049) were 24/0 - the remainder (D5050 - D5150) were 24/1s. Of the 100 24/1s only the last 36 (D5114-D5150) had headcode boxes.

 

<rant pedant mode off>

 

 

Close enough that I am sure SLW will have allowed for doing both accurately in the tooling for their headcode box 24.

Roy

Roy,

It may not be "correct" but I guess many of us (including Bachmann) call them 24/1 based on their TOPS numbering (even though those up to 24113 were built as "Skinheads").

 

To add confusion to the issue my 1971 Ian Allen combined volume notes 5000 to 5049 as Class 24/1 and 5050 to 5150 as class 24/2......

 

If someone mentions a 24/1 to me I understand they are talking about a headcode box fitted 24 though.