GWR Metro Tank 2-4-0 number 1458.

[greggieboy]

Hi guys,I recently bought a GWR Closed cab 2-4-0 Metro tank from e-bay.It has the cab-side number 1458.Can anyone tell me if that would be a correct number for that class of loco,and if so,any information on it's original ' in service ' location.

                           Thanks guys.

[ChrisN]

It appears from this link that it is a correct number and it was built in 1881/2.  In the Great Western Journal Issue 4 1992 page 153 there is an article about shed allocations from the 1930s.  I think the earliest allocations that are generally available are from the early 1900s.  (Generally available- in documents at Kew National Archive.)

 

You are able to buy back copies of the Great Western Journal.

[The Johnster]

BRdatabase has this as built Wolverhampton Stafford Road under Armstrong, and to service 10/1884, works no.439 with R3 boiler.  R4 boiler fitted and wheelbase altered to 15'6" in 04/1904, and a diagram BR4 boiler fitted in 07/1923.  Loco withdrawn 05/1936.  No details of shed allocations, sorry.  I am guessing that the wheelbase alteration may have been in connection with a Belpaire boiler, but lack the necessary erudition to state that as fact!

[ChrisN]

Here is a link to the page on the BRdatabase.

 

As that is only the front page, here is the list of Metros built in February March 1882, as copied from the database.

 

Metro Build dates 1882.xlsx

Edited February 25, 2021 by ChrisN

[wagonman]

According to the RCTS "bible" (part 6) 1458 was a 'medium' Metro tank built at Swindon in 1882 and withdrawn in April 1919 still carrying a round-top firebox (S4 boiler class) and of course with an open cab. This agrees with the reference quoted by ChrisN but I doesn't fit the loc bought by the OP. 

[The Johnster]

Oops.  For some reason I read 1458 as 1478, another senior moment to add to my already impressive list and a further reason I shouldn’t be left unsupervised...

[greggieboy]

Ah,ok guys,I thank you all for your replies.As my layout is based in late thirties,it seems I will have to change the number to one which was still in service around that date.....(if any actually survived until then !!!!).....Any other information will be greatly appreciated.

           Greg.

     

[ChrisN]

29 minutes ago, greggieboy said:

Ah,ok guys,I thank you all for your replies.As my layout is based in late thirties,it seems I will have to change the number to one which was still in service around that date.....(if any actually survived until then !!!!).....Any other information will be greatly appreciated.

           Greg.

     

 

If you use the link to the database and in the menu go to withdrawals and put in any date as the start after the date you are modelling and the finish date as 1950 you will get an enormous list.  If you then do Ctrl F and type 3500, it should jump you to the numbers that you want.   It appears that by the late 30s all that was left were the 35xx of the class built from about 1894 onwards, so probably the larger version.  Ten survived into BR ownership, but not for long.

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Oops.  For some reason I read 1458 as 1478, another senior moment to add to my already impressive list and a further reason I shouldn’t be left unsupervised...

 

Yes, but you used the BRdatabase which I knew about but thought it only had info about BR locos.  

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Yes, but you used the BRdatabase which I knew about but thought it only had info about BR locos.  

 

The person doing it is adding lots of information all the time and quite a lot of it seems to be from the RCTS books. So it's quite good for the GWR and LNER.

 

 

 

Jason

[Guy Rixon]

5 hours ago, greggieboy said:

Ah,ok guys,I thank you all for your replies.As my layout is based in late thirties,it seems I will have to change the number to one which was still in service around that date.....(if any actually survived until then !!!!).....Any other information will be greatly appreciated.

           Greg.

     

Is the model of a medium Metro tank (leaf springs on leading axle) or a large one (volute springs)?

[Steamport Southport]

Metros are complicated. Loads of useful info here.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no4-coup-tanks.html

[The Johnster]

BRdatabase has a facility in which you can put a loco's number in a box and click on it, taking you to a page with all the various locos of that number from BR, GWR, LMS, LNER, SR.  Click on the one you want in the right hand column and there will be information about it.  The amount of information varies but will consist of at lease the enter service and withdrawn from service dates and any significant alterations.

 

Some Metros lasted until 1950 but AFAIK none ever carried BR livery.  Many were converted to auto fitted.

[greggieboy]

Hi Guy Rixon,the model is a medium Metro apparently.

 

                                        Greg.

[Rail-Online]

The medium (sometimes referred to as 'small') Metros are a complicated subject.  There are several types of cabs fitted with different rear cab plates and configurations where they meet the bunker.  The only way to get one that looks like your model is to find dated photos.  Plenty were in service up to WW2 ie: in the OPs period. Insignia on the tanks also varied.

 

Tony

[wagonman]

Could we perhaps have a photo of the model? If it's the Finecast kit then chances are it'll be the most common variant with medium tanks, B4 boiler, closed cab with concave shoulder to the bunker, etc. Probably quite a few numbers to choose from in the 14xx series.

 

 

[Guy Rixon]

From RCTS The Locomotives of the GWR, part 6, it seems that most medium metros were withdrawn before or during the 1930s. I see two that survived into the 1940s:

• 1498 built 1892, withdrawn 1944;
• 1499 built 1892, withdrawn 1946.

Both were built with an S2 boiler (dome at front, round firebox) but received a B4 boiler (dome further back, Belpaire firebox) before 1930.

 

I count eight Metros that survived nationalisation, all of them the large-tank variety. They were all withdrawn by the end of 1949.

[greggieboy]

A picture of the 'offending article' !!.......before a due repaint to get rid of the gloss varnish !!

 

                                        Greg.

Edited February 26, 2021 by greggieboy

[wagonman]

Ah! This one has the type 91 bunker with the convex curve known to have been fitted to about a dozen or so example – one of them 1459, withdrawn in March 1936 and probably the last of that configuration to go. 

 

So only '1' out...

 

[greggieboy]

Ok,thanks Wagonman.Will need some artistic licence then as my layout set in late 30's / early 40's.Will try and search for a number which lasted that long (if there were any !!)

   Guy Rixon says 1498 and 1499 survived into the 40's,so may have to try to find some pictures and renumber my model.

[wagonman]

Guy is correct, but they both had the rather more common type 93 bunker with a concave  curve to the 'shoulder['. You could always attack it with a piercing saw  :-)

 

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, greggieboy said:

Guy Rixon says 1498 and 1499 survived into the 40's,so may have to try to find some pictures and renumber my model.

 

Pictures of 1498 and 1499

[greggieboy]

Thanks Wagonman and Miss Prism......I may well try to cut away a little of the bunker sides to make them concave as per photo's.....I can then renumber the old girl !!!

[JimC]

If your layout is a fictional line in an alternate universe then clearly that locomotive had to stay in service longer in that reality than it did in ours :-) 

[JimC]

Conventionally, BTW, small Metros were the earliest lot with shorter wheelbase, the fifty large Metros (thirty of which had started life as medium Metros) carried 1080 gallon tanks and volute springs for the leading wheel suspension, and the seventy medium Metros were those of the 100 built between 1871 and 1894 which retained tanks of 800-820 gallons. There were a surprising number of changes of wheelbase on the Metros, most of the earlier ones were lengthened.