New Dapol O gauge B4

[NCB]

3 hours ago, Kris said:

If they want to stick with the GWR theme then why not move away from locos and produce a RTR toad. I suspect that they could shift quite a few of these. 

 

There's always the Parkside and Peco kits. Dead easy to build. I can see people buying an RTR locomotive because of the skills and confidence needed to build a loco kit; the same applies to some extent to coaches. But goods stock is much easier.

 

[jcm@gwr]

I'm saying this as a GWR enthusiast, there aren't enough other company's small locos!

 

1 Jinty, 1 Terrier, and a handful of industrials, compared to half-a-dozen panniers and 

a 14xx (48/58xx), plus the Fowler No1 and Sentinel No2 (and WC&P's Terrier, No5) and

a 45xx soon as well, oh and the 61xx!

 

The Austerity (J94) is desperately needed, maybe the J72 would be a good choice also?

 

Later period modellers are fairly well catered for with the 08, 05 and 03, plus 14 and 17

on their way.

 

[JeremyC]

Two classes that I think might have a wide (geographical) market appeal:

Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0.  Allocated to every region except the Southern.

BR Standard 4MT 2-6-0. Allocated to every region except WR, (though a different tender would be required for some of the Southern Region examples)

Edited February 26, 2021 by JeremyC

[Courtybella]

9 hours ago, Piemanlarger said:

 

 

I think if Dapol have had good sales on their previous gwr locos such as 14xx 57xx etc  then another gwr loco could also sell well.

Given the option to purchase the Heljan / Minerva gwr stuff and it's quite easy to get into 0 gauge and build a gwr / brwr layout these days.

That's what happened to me!

Personally I think tank engines will sell better than (big) tender locos as room at home is of course limited to most.

 

I do concede it would be good to see other regions catered for but at the same time not at the expense of gwr.

 

Thus what's needed is for Hornby and bschmannto fill the gap in the growing market?? 

I’ve always thought Bachman should drop into the O market, they already do buildings although limited in number.

 

As dpaol have found out if you feed a market it grows.

[Courtybella]

4 hours ago, Lord Flashheart said:

Class 142 Pacer.

 

Rob

Although post 1996 units would be a good show to start, Class 170 in its original form 170101-117, 201-208, 301-308, 401-429, 501-523 & 630-639 all shared the same bodies, other batches had slightly different headlight clusters. 

[dpgibbons]

Small locos are the best commercial prospect, especially in a scale that is heavily geared to small layouts. So a small tank engine is a good bet and a tender engine would be a surprise. I'd add the LSWR B4 to the list of candidates as it's already in their OO range. 

 

 

[Piemanlarger]

3 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Small locos are the best commercial prospect, ......... it's already in their OO range. 

 

 

 

 

Yesi think what ever it is, Dapol already produce it an one or more other scales.

[Fenman]

8 hours ago, jcm@gwr said:

...

Later period modellers are fairly well catered for with the 08, 05 and 03, plus 14 and 17

on their way.

 

The Class 17 has already arrived — though Heljan is expressing surprise at how quickly it has sold out at the warehouse (some still available if you shop around).

 

The Clayton is a good-looking loco, as well as being slightly more modestly-sized than express locos, so maybe there are some hints there for other manufacturers?

 

Hornby had a go at O a few years back, though decided to do it with a revival of coarse-scale Bassett Lowke(!). The fact that range has sunk without trace, never again mentioned by Hornby marketing people, suggests it was a scar-making disaster for them (who would have predicted that...?). 
 

Equally, the enthusiasm with which Heljan is releasing O gauge product into the market, and still expressing surprise at how well it is all selling, suggests to me there is a significant market here. And mostly without the constant criticisms expressed in 00 about “high prices”. 
 

Paul

Edited February 27, 2021 by Fenman

[Hal Nail]

What Dapol really don't get enough credit for is recognising the obvious sellers. If you rattle through all the more obvious stuff that combines small size, widest market through long life into BR and in the case of wagons, which are less economic, a large range of variations sharing tooling, Dapol have farmed them. Even amongst GWR locos the 14xx and 57xx stand out, the BR wagons, the new conflat has a GWR chassis so more to come there I'm sure and they even got the 08, when Heljan were mopping up most diesels. The Terrier and Jinty are the same thinking.

 

Were I to enter the fray now, the only similar sure thing that hasn't been covered is an LMS 10ft chassis, which suits 3 and 5 plank opens and 2 or 3 common vans, which ended up all over BR in high numbers.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Hal Nail

[kernowtim]

The Bassett Lowke brand was revived by Corgi and would probably sell well now if Hornby had continued development instead of dropping the range when they took over the Corgi brand, the Peckett is now fetching much more secondhand than it sold for new for example!

And the Hornby retro centenary models sold too.

Lima made the GWR toad many years ago and still around secondhand.

I am hoping for a class 22 from Dapol though!

[birdseyecircus]

A small tank engine would be a good bet, but a large chunk of work was already done on the Little Loco companies two up and coming plans before they folded - the Ruston shunter and the class 22.

Could Dapol have bought into these?

 

Paul

[Kris]

8 hours ago, Courtybella said:

I’ve always thought Bachman should drop into the O market, they already do buildings although limited in number.

 

As dpaol have found out if you feed a market it grows.

The delays that you get with Bachmann due to manufacturing slots would suggest that these are already very limited. To add a further range would put even more pressure on these. 

[Marshall5]

9 hours ago, Courtybella said:

I’ve always thought Bachman should drop into the O market, they already do buildings although limited in number.

 

If you remember Bachmann did get into 0 scale, in partnership with San Cheng, with the Bachmann Brass range.  They offered quite a few models, J94, 4F, Scotsman, 08, Crab, 80xxx & Ivatt 2 and then dropped the range. Likewise their 0n30 range which they seem, now, to be winding down.  They have, perhaps, decided to concentrate on their 'core' ranges of American H0 and British 00 where the market is stronger.  Compared with 00/H0 sales any potential 0 scale sales would be tiny.  Just my 2p worth.

[F-UnitMad]

44 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:

If you remember Bachmann did get into 0 scale,

I think they misjudged the market first time around, which was before Heljan started their range. The models were 'unpainted' brass, but as far as I'm aware, actually coated in a clear lacquer that needed stripping before paint could be applied successfully. Then there were accuracy issues with at least a few of the diesels in particular.

If they had a second go, in the manner of Dapol, & more accurately than Heljan, it could take off this time around.

[Bluebell Boy]

Love to see the B4 upscaled to O given its size and number of liveries. Possibly an M7 in parallel with the re-tooling of the N gauge version but most likely a wagon from more recent years..

[brossard]

A comment about Dapol's early PO wagons, which I call Gen 1.  Pretty bad.  I had one (that's the only one I will ever get) and, to bring it to an acceptable standard I replaced the undergubbins with Bill Bedford brake gear and sprung axleguards.

 

After teaming with Lionheart, the more recent releases, Gen 2, are excellent. 

 

I warn people that Gen 1 wagons continue to appear, recognizable by brake shoes miles away from the wheels.

 

John

[F-UnitMad]

27 minutes ago, brossard said:

A comment about Dapol's early PO wagons, which I call Gen 1.  Pretty bad.  I had one (that's the only one I will ever get) and, to bring it to an acceptable standard I replaced the undergubbins with Bill Bedford brake gear and sprung axleguards.

 

After teaming with Lionheart, the more recent releases, Gen 2, are excellent. 

 

I warn people that Gen 1 wagons continue to appear, recognizable by brake shoes miles away from the wheels.

 

John

Agreed. I recall the late Adrian Swain weighing in with many diatribes against them, and a list of around 40 'mistakes/inaccuracies' for them. As far as I was concerned, the Grand Canyon-esque gap between the brake blocks & wheel rims made any further issues a moot point entirely.

[hmrspaul]

7 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I think they misjudged the market first time around, which was before Heljan started their range. The models were 'unpainted' brass, but as far as I'm aware, actually coated in a clear lacquer that needed stripping before paint could be applied successfully. Then there were accuracy issues with at least a few of the diesels in particular.

If they had a second go, in the manner of Dapol, & more accurately than Heljan, it could take off this time around.

The wagons were very basic; worse than Dapol Gen 1 (which were at least cheap!).  Also, they had wheels that would not run on finescale track - such as Peco so another £9 to replace them - which was easy because the axleguards were screwed on; I said they were basic. I suspect a US standard for the wheels. 

 

Paul

[Les1952]

19 hours ago, brossard said:

A comment about Dapol's early PO wagons, which I call Gen 1.  Pretty bad.  I had one (that's the only one I will ever get) and, to bring it to an acceptable standard I replaced the undergubbins with Bill Bedford brake gear and sprung axleguards.

 

After teaming with Lionheart, the more recent releases, Gen 2, are excellent. 

 

I warn people that Gen 1 wagons continue to appear, recognizable by brake shoes miles away from the wheels.

 

John

 

Yet sufficient people disagreed with you to make them profitable enough to a) keep the company afloat and b) make it worthwhile expanding the range......

 

Just a thought

Les

[Phil Parker]

On 27/02/2021 at 08:42, birdseyecircus said:

A small tank engine would be a good bet, but a large chunk of work was already done on the Little Loco companies two up and coming plans before they folded - the Ruston shunter and the class 22.

Could Dapol have bought into these?

 

Paul

 

As far as the Class 22 is concerned, several companies looked at it, and concluded it wasn't viable without a complete redesign. I suspect the 48DS is the same. 

[F-UnitMad]

14 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

I suspect a US standard for the wheels. 

I doubt that, as my US O Scale stock has never had trouble on Peco track, or Markits points, and I also run it on Code 100 rail & switches. Wheels from Atlas, NWSL, MTH, Intermountain & Weaver.

 

[F-UnitMad]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

As far as the Class 22 is concerned, several companies looked at it, and concluded it wasn't viable without a complete redesign. 

The Minerva guys told me at Telford Guildex a while back that they'd looked into it themselves, and decided against taking it on from L.L.Co.

[mdvle]

On 26/02/2021 at 10:29, brossard said:

I do get that GWR stock sells well.  The iconic GWR BLT is hard to resist for many.

 

Selling also comes down to the entire ecosystem of product though - yes the GWR BLT is an attraction, but so is the variety of GWR locos that make a GWR layout viable.

 

On 26/02/2021 at 10:29, brossard said:

However, GWR is not the be all and end all for the hobby so the manufacturers need to try to balance that.

 

But balance for balance works against the manufacturer in a smaller scale.

 

Exclude the people on here (which are a minority of O scale), and "randomly" choosing locos from the potential pre-BR railways ends up with a wide variety of product that doesn't make potential layouts possible if you want more than a single type of loco.

 

If they really don't want to do another GWR loco, then another SR loco to go along with the Terrier would seem a better choice - build up a SR ecosystem to make SR layouts equally viable.  After you get a number of SR locos then they can consider making the next move.

 

On 26/02/2021 at 10:29, brossard said:

I have been hoping to see Hornby and/or Bachmann step up to the 0 gauge plate.  No sign yet though.  Hornby has had it's issues of late so I'm thinking they are trying to consolidate and not over commit.  Bachmann did have their brass range some while ago.  It would be good to see them use their injection moulded expertise in 0 gauge just as Dapol has done.

 

I suspect the O market is too small for either of them, and their brand recognition wouldn't necessarily transfer over into additional sales in O - the Hornby brand is OO (the same likely reason Hornby isn't doing N).

 

What might be interesting to watch is Rapido if they could convince Jason...

[mdvle]

Wonder if it might be a Manor?

 

Can't find it at the moment but I think Accurascale indicated that they were open to the possibility of enlarging their Manor to O, and of course Dapol has a brand new Manor in OO as well...

[Jackie K]

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