Collection boxes finishing touches

[locomad2]

I often leave the flat boxes until needed, to finish assemble using staples 

 

To avoid damage rusting these will become the bottom

 

I add bit of Polyethylene foam to protect coupling , you could use anything card etc but stick it to the flap saves getting lost on opening etc, add a label any will do I  find masking tape is best as I use it up as find it goes off

 

That's it few minutes work saves time hassle etc

[Il Grifone]

The original Dublo boxes were carefully folded inwards on the end flaps to make a protection for the coupling. This is possibly better.

[locomad2]

42 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

The original Dublo boxes were carefully folded inwards on the end flaps to make a protection for the coupling. This is possibly better.

Yes I've come across them, some had quite complex folds which meant one of the flaps was larger than the other with extra folds and cardboard which folded correctly and protected the coupling. I tried to copy and found it just too long to cut out and fold.

 

Other method was round cardboard which fitted over the buffers, for years I used loo roll inners cut up. However opening say 10 to 20 wagon boxes per session found spent too much time picking them off the floor!  hence the foam or bits of thick cardboard, it also forces you to pack the wagon the correct way up. Yes I've had the staple damage a roof or leave rust on a nice white van roof.

 

The whole process, evolution etc started with airfix kits over 50 years ago, fragile well made airfix kits needed boxes as I moved house, stored stuff in attics, etc. Gone are the days of "wrapped up in newspaper" thrown in a box, sure way to lose, break, forget stuff

[Ruffnut Thorston]

One interesting thing about the original Hornby Dublo boxes...

 

Every one was custom printed for each wagon, coach, etc.

 

The sizes also can vary between wagons by a small amount, e.g. the SD mineral wagon box is a little larger overall than the boxes used for the SD 5 plank wagons, UGB Glass Sand Wagon, Coal Wagon etc. 
 

This must have had cost implications, as to having to have a stock of every type of box cluttering up a warehouse...

 

Tri-ang Railways largely did away with model specific boxes, with pre printed contents. 
They tended to use a standard size box, usually identified by a two letter code, e.g. A.B..

Apart from some boxes that had the contents panel pre printed, others used a printed label, or an ink stamp applied.

 

Therefore, not so many variations of boxes to keep in stock.

 

That said, there were examples of the same box code being used for two slightly different size boxes...

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo

[andyman7]

1 minute ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

One interesting thing about the original Hornby Dublo boxes...

 

Every one was custom printed for each wagon, coach, etc.

 

The sizes also can vary between wagons by a small amount, e.g. the SD mineral wagon box is a little larger overall than the boxes used for the 40SD 5 plank wagons, UGB Glass Sand Wagon, Coal Wagon etc. 
 

This must have had cost implications, as to having to have a stock of every type of box cluttering up a warehouse...

 

Tri-ang Railways largely did away with model specific boxes, with pre printed contents. 
They tended to use a standard size box, usually identified by a two letter code, e.g. A.B..

Apart from some boxes that had the contents panel pre printed, others used a printed label, or an ink stamp applied.

 

Therefore, not so many variations of boxes to keep in stock.

 

That said, there were examples of the same bix code being used for two slightly different size boxes...

For Triang collectors that creates its own subset of collecting which is items factory packed in unusual or interesting boxes. As you say the vast majority of items were packed in a standard range of boxes denoted by letter codes. These would be stamped or labelled. From 1962, window boxes were used for some items, particularly locos and coaches. Card inserts with multi-scored fold lines could be adapted for different rolling stock lengths for use with the window boxes. By the mid 60s many locos had vac formed inserts for the window boxes which were specific to each loco type.

However, on occasion there were clearly insufficient correct boxes for a production batch in which case items might turn up in an unusual box - either closed box instead of window box or larger box for smaller item, The clue will be factory spec packing e.g. the infamous yellow tissue and of course a factory end label. The peak of this trend was around 1970/71 when lots of boxes went into short supply. Plain white boxes got used as well as all sorts of other things - I have had in the past an R258 Princess in an overlabelled R850/855 Flying Scotsman box (the latter being one of the rare bespoke printed boxes). A batch of R758 blue Hymeks were packed in medium length closed wagon boxes too at one point.

The stations, buildings and track pack range were for the most part packed in larger plain boxes but for a period mid 1960s had gloriously illustrated full colour boxes specific to each pack. I have many but no means all of these - they make a colourful contrast to the rest of the packaging. 

[cypherman]

Hi all,

You often see H/D items with their original boxes, But I can probably count on my hands the number of Triang items in their original boxes I have seen in the past 12 months. That is of course unless you are me. I have bought 2 H/D 2 rail Co-Bo's recently and they have both come in 3 rail H/D Co-Bo boxes. That asks the question are there 2 3 rail engines out there in 2 rail boxes....  .

Edited February 27, 2021 by cypherman

[Il Grifone]

The 3 rail box is probably 'worth' more than the 2 rail locomotive, if it's in good condition.

Don't ask me why the box is as valuable as its contents!  

 

I must print off some fake Dublo boxes... ( for my own use of course!).

Edited February 27, 2021 by Il Grifone

[locomad2]

On 26/02/2021 at 23:13, Ruffnut Thorston said:

One interesting thing about the original Hornby Dublo boxes...

 

Every one was custom printed for each wagon, coach, etc.

 

The sizes also can vary between wagons by a small amount, e.g. the SD mineral wagon box is a little larger overall than the boxes used for the SD 5 plank wagons, UGB Glass Sand Wagon, Coal Wagon etc. 
 

This must have had cost implications, as to having to have a stock of every type of box cluttering up a warehouse...

 

Tri-ang Railways largely did away with model specific boxes, with pre printed contents. 
They tended to use a standard size box, usually identified by a two letter code, e.g. A.B..

Apart from some boxes that had the contents panel pre printed, others used a printed label, or an ink stamp applied.

 

Therefore, not so many variations of boxes to keep in stock.

 

That said, there were examples of the same box code being used for two slightly different size boxes...

 

 

Yes I discovered that too, in trying to make a "standard" box found I needed to put all my little boxes into a bigger box and such only works well if all the boxes are the same size. That the  Hornby dublo SD fruit van and SD SR utility van, roughly the same size, yet one of the boxes is 1/4 inch longer.

 

Here's one I packed  years ago

 

 

Outer box itself once contained computer paper that came from a factory locally called the "automatic", next door was Meccano factory at Binnes Road which became a B&Q. To take any "waste" out we had to explain why and get a chit, explaining once to a manager why, he replied you will get 9 across and 5 down 45 boxes in all. Turned out he once "packed" for Meccano.

 

Amazinging for now he went on to tell that a repair shop on site stored Telephone exchange parts in old Hornby Dublo boxes obtained somehow and the codes for the parts related to the number on the boxes. I did visit before I left many years ago and saw a whole large metal cabinet full of Hornby Dublo boxes full of spares parts

[Ruffnut Thorston]

A pity that you couldn’t swap them for some other boxes...

 

The school physics department had some items stored in old OXO cube tins...

 

Now highly collectible! 

[1E BoY]

My boxes of choice. Quick to assemble and will hold 30 small wagons, 20 longer ones or 10 coaches. Although mine were purchased from the Bachmann Collectors Club, I have seen identical boxes on sale at exhibitions from Warley MRC, Modellers Mecca and Cheltenham Models. 

 

I do glue the end flaps of the trays and also glue the spacer card on to the bottom of the trays to give added strength. Great for transporting stock to exhibitions, takes about two minutes to extract 30 wagons and have them on the layout ready for operation. 

 

They measure 15.25" long, 11.25" wide and 3.25" deep and can be stored on shelves side on saving a lot of space. There is also a contents panel on one of the ends. Mine reads Hornby Dublo wagons.

Edited March 1, 2021 by 1E BoY

[Ruffnut Thorston]

I presume that the Vacuum and later Mobil with two badges have been rewheeled with the plastic wheelsets, they look to be black?

 

 

[1E BoY]

19 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I presume that the Vacuum and later Mobil with two badges have been rewheeled with the plastic wheelsets, they look to be black?

 

 

All 3 rail wagons I have acquired over the years were converted to plastic wheels when they were easy to obtain. Now I only buy rolling stock that has plastic wheels fitted. Likewise I have several former 3 rail locomotives that were converted years ago by Mr Fowler  who ran the Model Shop in Lincoln Road, Peterborough for around £1.50 a time. You could buy 3 rail locos back in the  early 70s for next to nothing (about £3 for an A4) and get them converted for about half the price of a new Wrenn equivalent. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by 1E BoY
Grammar

[Ruffnut Thorston]

We have some ex 3-rail wagons of various types fitted with the plastic wheels...

 

Hornby Dublo started fitting them, the disk version,  to coaches around 1957 it seems.

Quieter running was the cover story, until the announcement of two rail in 1959.

 

[PatB]

On 27/02/2021 at 18:46, cypherman said:

Hi all,

You often see H/D items with their original boxes, But I can probably count on my hands the number of Triang items in their original boxes I have seen in the past 12 months. That is of course unless you are me. I have bought 2 H/D 2 rail Co-Bo's recently and they have both come in 3 rail H/D Co-Bo boxes. That asks the question are there 2 3 rail engines out there in 2 rail boxes....  .

Are you sure they're not contemporary 3-2-rail conversions? There was something of a minor industry in such work during the 60s and early 70s. Given H-D's use of many interchangeable parts, I would imagine at least some to be indistinguishable from factory jobs. 

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK the first Dublo coaches to receive plastic wheels were the crimson/chocolate and cream restaurant cars and wagons started with the SD6 series about the same time (the grain* wagon in 1958 IIRC). The very first BR(W) coaches for the 'Castle' (late 1957) had metal wheels. Not currently having access to my 'bible', I'd have to fight through on-line Meccano Magazines for the date. If the distaff side doesn't find me something to do (small chance), I might....

 

* I can remember rushing to our local toy shop with 6/9d in my hot little hand to exchange for one. The shop owner said he had been expecting me!

 

A give away as to whether a model was originally 2 or 3 rail could be the number, though Hatton's did sell them swopped around. (Says he who has a 3 rail D8017!)

[GoingUnderground]

8 hours ago, PatB said:

Are you sure they're not contemporary 3-2-rail conversions? There was something of a minor industry in such work during the 60s and early 70s. Given H-D's use of many interchangeable parts, I would imagine at least some to be indistinguishable from factory jobs. 

 

Looking back, I do find it surprising that HD didn't go down the route of making their locos easy for users to convert from 2 to 3 rail and back again when they introduced 2 rail. The advantages seem obvious to me, a slight increase in cost of materials, but with reduced assembly and packaging and stockholding costs for HD and reduced stockholding costs for HD retailers (no more, "sorry, I only have the X rail version in stock" . But perhaps HD just had too much 3 rail stock on hand for it to have had any noticeable effect if they had done that.

 

British Trix locos were easy to "convert" just by repositioning the collector shoes because they all had insulated wheelsets thanks to the "Twin" design, but I do agree that the Trix shoes were rather obvious. I am sure that HD could have designed a simple and reliable changeover mechanism incorporated into the 3rd rail collector shoe fixings. I believe that ESU has something similar on its "Engineering Edition" locos as 3 rail stud contact is very much alive and kicking in mainland Europe and elsewhere that Maerklin is a major player.

[GoingUnderground]

On 26/02/2021 at 10:14, locomad2 said:

I often leave the flat boxes until needed, to finish assemble using staples 

 

To avoid damage rusting these will become the bottom

 

I add bit of Polyethylene foam to protect coupling , you could use anything card etc but stick it to the flap saves getting lost on opening etc, add a label any will do I  find masking tape is best as I use it up as find it goes off

 

That's it few minutes work saves time hassle etc

I'm always very cautious about letting any plastic packaging touch the model. After Triang withdrew the 1950s style lift-top boxes but before they introduced the window boxes, the locos came in square section boxes AY, DA, DC style, with the loco wrapped in a piece of foam (often yellow) to stop it rattling around in transit. Over time, typically many years, that foam disintegrates, and can stick to the model, don't ask how I know. Polystyrene packaging can go the same way. So I always make sure that there is a layer of unbleached tissue paper between any plastic packaging and the model before I put in the box, or just use cardboard packing.  

[cypherman]

10 hours ago, PatB said:

Are you sure they're not contemporary 3-2-rail conversions? There was something of a minor industry in such work during the 60s and early 70s. Given H-D's use of many interchangeable parts, I would imagine at least some to be indistinguishable from factory jobs. 

Hi Pat,

I think that these are original boxes. They are too worn and also have all the hallmarks of being correct. But Hey Ho they are what they are. If some one was going to get new boxes for their loco's I suspect they would have got the right ones. 

[locomad2]

On 27/02/2021 at 10:46, cypherman said:

Hi all,

You often see H/D items with their original boxes, But I can probably count on my hands the number of Triang items in their original boxes I have seen in the past 12 months. That is of course unless you are me. I have bought 2 H/D 2 rail Co-Bo's recently and they have both come in 3 rail H/D Co-Bo boxes. That asks the question are there 2 3 rail engines out there in 2 rail boxes....  .

Yes after Meccano went bust retailers were desperate to get rid of any Hornby Dublo stock, if you wanted a 3 rail body no problem , often on the shop counter the body swapped onto a 2 rail chassis and via verse as 3 rail modellers wanted the 2 rail body, as a result boxes got mixed up

[Ruffnut Thorston]

11 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

I'm always very cautious about letting any plastic packaging touch the model. After Triang withdrew the 1950s style lift-top boxes but before they introduced the window boxes, the locos came in square section boxes AY, DA, DC style, with the loco wrapped in a piece of foam (often yellow) to stop it rattling around in transit. Over time, typically many years, that foam disintegrates, and can stick to the model, don't ask how I know. Polystyrene packaging can go the same way. So I always make sure that there is a layer of unbleached tissue paper between any plastic packaging and the model before I put in the box, or just use cardboard packing.  

The same foam was used  as a packing piece inside the tender of the original Hall Class locos. This also degrades into a sticky mass over time, and bits can leach out of the holes in the tender chassis!

 

Bubble Wrap is a culprit for sticking to, and marking the plastic parts of models over time, so avoid bubble wrap in contact with models!

 

 

[GoingUnderground]

On 26/02/2021 at 23:28, andyman7 said:

For Triang collectors that creates its own subset of collecting which is items factory packed in unusual or interesting boxes. As you say the vast majority of items were packed in a standard range of boxes denoted by letter codes. These would be stamped or labelled. From 1962, window boxes were used for some items, particularly locos and coaches. Card inserts with multi-scored fold lines could be adapted for different rolling stock lengths for use with the window boxes. By the mid 60s many locos had vac formed inserts for the window boxes which were specific to each loco type.

However, on occasion there were clearly insufficient correct boxes for a production batch in which case items might turn up in an unusual box - either closed box instead of window box or larger box for smaller item, The clue will be factory spec packing e.g. the infamous yellow tissue and of course a factory end label. The peak of this trend was around 1970/71 when lots of boxes went into short supply. Plain white boxes got used as well as all sorts of other things - I have had in the past an R258 Princess in an overlabelled R850/855 Flying Scotsman box (the latter being one of the rare bespoke printed boxes). A batch of R758 blue Hymeks were packed in medium length closed wagon boxes too at one point.

The stations, buildings and track pack range were for the most part packed in larger plain boxes but for a period mid 1960s had gloriously illustrated full colour boxes specific to each pack. I have many but no means all of these - they make a colourful contrast to the rest of the packaging. 

There is a similar "collecting" issue with Wrenn who also on occasions put models in boxes intended for larger/longer wheelbase models. I believe that in the Wrenn collecting world the models in the non-standard but correctly marked/stamped boxes are more highly prized than ones in the correct boxes. 

[locomad2]

Quite understand those worried by foam, my worst experience was with the infamous PECO foam underlay which not only meant ripping up a much favoured layout but also damage done to locos, coaches and wagons left on the layout. Hornby Dublo 2 rail wheels suffered the most it just seem to eat them away causing woddle, derailments, HD SD coach bogie wheels suffered the most. Locos picked up the  foam, once sticky then gritty which ended up into the mechanics. Axles clogged up on wagons. I'am still finding stock suffering now after I banned PECO foam 30 years ago.

 

I find there is 2 main types of foam, polyethylene seems so far ok as been used for some 35 years, however I have used alternatives, box on the left has a fold built into the flap, early 3 rail Hornby dublo used this method, more fiddly to make, specific to stock and more chance the end flap opens. The other on the right is a simple cardboard strip stapled to the flap, only issue with both methods I find it harder now to buy the smaller staples with the decline of shops on high street 

 

 

 

Myself I find care taken to protect ends quite important, coupling are easily damaged plus brake pipe, peco metal are the worst just a slight knock and once the angle of the hook is out it just won't work.

[locomad2]

43 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

There is a similar "collecting" issue with Wrenn who also on occasions put models in boxes intended for larger/longer wheelbase models. I believe that in the Wrenn collecting world the models in the non-standard but correctly marked/stamped boxes are more highly prized than ones in the correct boxes. 

 

I've certainly come across smaller Wrenn models in large boxes, I just assumed standardization of boxes, I've  seen class 08 in a City box and common to find 2-6-4 again in City boxes. I've a few Wrenn boxes and notice last longer and are tougher than Hornby Dublo boxes

[GoingUnderground]

33 minutes ago, locomad2 said:

 

I've certainly come across smaller Wrenn models in large boxes, I just assumed standardization of boxes, I've  seen class 08 in a City box and common to find 2-6-4 again in City boxes. I've a few Wrenn boxes and notice last longer and are tougher than Hornby Dublo boxes

The Wrenn boxes will be at least 6 years younger than HD ones as all HD boxes will go back to the early 1960s if not before, as all HD production had stopped before Lines Bros took over Meccano (source: the late Richard Lines in the Axiom Videos).

 

Triang Wrenn boxes will date from the late 1960s after Lines Bros let Wrenn have the ex-HD tooling.

 

Wrenn Railways ones will date from 1972 onwards as that was when G&R Wrenn regained its status as an independent company and started selling the ex-HD models under the G&R Wrenn brand. But there are models that were never Triang Wrenn models made in 1972 and 1973 after the end of the Triang Wrenn period which nevertheless were sold in Triang Wrenn boxes as Wrenn used up their existing box stocks. Maurice Gunter's "The Story of Wrenn - From Binns Road to Basildon" has all the details.

[GoingUnderground]

On 26/02/2021 at 23:13, Ruffnut Thorston said:

One interesting thing about the original Hornby Dublo boxes...

 

Every one was custom printed for each wagon, coach, etc.

 

The sizes also can vary between wagons by a small amount, e.g. the SD mineral wagon box is a little larger overall than the boxes used for the SD 5 plank wagons, UGB Glass Sand Wagon, Coal Wagon etc. 
 

This must have had cost implications, as to having to have a stock of every type of box cluttering up a warehouse...

 

Tri-ang Railways largely did away with model specific boxes, with pre printed contents. 
They tended to use a standard size box, usually identified by a two letter code, e.g. A.B..

Apart from some boxes that had the contents panel pre printed, others used a printed label, or an ink stamp applied.

 

Therefore, not so many variations of boxes to keep in stock.

 

That said, there were examples of the same box code being used for two slightly different size boxes...

 

 

I know that Hornby believed that they were offering a quality product that was, in their eyes at least, superior to the opposition, notably Lines Bros Triang Railways, and they probably thought that it justified model-specific boxes. But they do seem to have been blind to the cost implications of the lack of standardisation on packaging, something that Lines Bros were particularly good at in the 1950s and early to mid 1960s. And the Hornby O Gauge and Dublo product numbering always seemed particularly impenetrable to me, but then I'm not a Meccano-Hornby expert.

 

The Triang DA loco box was one that "grew" as the original DA was the right size for the EM2 and Class 31, but was too short, just, for the Class 37 and the box had to grow to accommodate it. I think that the shorter DC 0-4-0/0-6-0 sized box might also have gone through a similar enlargement. The DC box was used for other products too, the double track overhead gantries were packed in DC boxes.

 

Today, the packaging has, IMHO, grown out of all proportion to the size of the contents, and I'm not totally convinced of the benefit derived from the extra padding. I know there is far more delicate detail on models nowadays, but do get concerned that it is all to easy to break the smallest parts off in the struggle to get the model out of the packaging or sometimes just even picking it up off the track, which makes me wonder if we have gone too far down the "super-detail" route.