WCML coach formations circa early Eighties.

[61656]

I popped out over lunch and stumbled into 1986, managing to grab a couple of photos of some of the models in question. 
 

In the first shot we see Airfix mk2d FO, Mainline mk1 RBR, Bachmann mk1 RU and Bachmann mk2f SO. Both catering vehicles are corridor side. 

 

 

Next up, by amazing good fortune, we see almost same formation but with the RBR and RU in the other order and showing their kitchen sides. 
 

 

For me, I think not many people would be able to spot the difference, let alone know that the RU is incorrect for the period. But I know, which means I need to address it. 
 

Only close up can you see the improvements that both Bachmann coaches offer over their earlier counterparts. As a rake, the difference in heights are negligible and the difference in colour about true to life. 
 

The biggest difference for me is the close coupling. I have a PV rake which is close coupled and the difference is enough to make me want that look as standard. 
 

Ultimately we all choose our own standards, for me I’ll have to address the RU and change the RBR (or investigate Keen). But I won’t lose any sleep whilst the first half of 1986 takes me 20 years to sort them out!

 

I think if I was buying long rakes to appreciate from a distance, the Airfix would beat the Bachmann on economy (~ a 5x price difference), so long as I could sort the couplings. 

[InterCitySpud]

4 hours ago, 61656 said:

I popped out over lunch and stumbled into 1986, managing to grab a couple of photos of some of the models in question. 
 

In the first shot we see Airfix mk2d FO, Mainline mk1 RBR, Bachmann mk1 RU and Bachmann mk2f SO. Both catering vehicles are corridor side. 

 

 

Next up, by amazing good fortune, we see almost same formation but with the RBR and RU in the other order and showing their kitchen sides. 
 

 

For me, I think not many people would be able to spot the difference, let alone know that the RU is incorrect for the period. But I know, which means I need to address it. 
 

Only close up can you see the improvements that both Bachmann coaches offer over their earlier counterparts. As a rake, the difference in heights are negligible and the difference in colour about true to life. 
 

The biggest difference for me is the close coupling. I have a PV rake which is close coupled and the difference is enough to make me want that look as standard. 
 

Ultimately we all choose our own standards, for me I’ll have to address the RU and change the RBR (or investigate Keen). But I won’t lose any sleep whilst the first half of 1986 takes me 20 years to sort them out!

 

I think if I was buying long rakes to appreciate from a distance, the Airfix would beat the Bachmann on economy (~ a 5x price difference), so long as I could sort the couplings. 

Thanks very much for the photos, I wish we could stay in 1986!

 

The Airfix Mk2d's and the Mainline RBR bring back great memories as they were exactly the stock I ran before I gave them all away in about 1988, when cars and girls took over, but I bet I'm not on my own there! Of course things have moved on and I'm now busy buying it all again albeit today's versions, at today's prices!!!

 

The Bachmann 19xx version RBR is a great model and the corridor side is fine. I can understand some not being concerned about it being the early version without the refurb and added counter, it sits brilliantly with east coast stock and behind a Deltic but not a 1980's AC.  They probably made this version as it pairs with the MK1 Bachmann open "restaurant" which was just a dining car with no kitchen.

 

I never saw this version on my southern section of WCML ever. So for me, I cannot run it without converting it to the later version. The only (current) correct RTR versions for the early eighties are now the Hornby RBR and the Oxford RUB, throw them in the middle of any mixed rake of MK2e/f, MK3a rake you wish! As long as the kitchen on the MK1's is Euston end and the kitchen on the MK3's is on the north end.

 

I also agree about close coupling, one of my biggest bugbears, having a scale 6' between coaches and enough fresh air to drive a scale bus through just ruins any other detailing efforts! Why do top end models still have two great lumps of solid plastic as corridor connectors? They don't connect and actually just push them further apart from scale! This also accentuates the "model look" at points as the further the bogies are apart the greater the swing. I know some layouts have tight corners to negotiate, but not all. Having thinner, very fine soft rubber connectors (condom thin!) available might help close the gap. I have many plans for my new stock and when I modelled previously I made my own connectors and fixed my rakes as this was the only way to solve the issue. I'm hoping for more modern solutions this time around but I'm happy to do it all again!

 

Who sells very fine black rubber?

Edited March 5, 2021 by InterCitySpud

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, InterCitySpud said:

 

 

Who sells very fine black rubber?

Is that for the cars or the girls ?

[Padishar Creel]

Hallo,

Going back to this photo, I find it unusual that there are 2 catering vehicles in a WCML formation. Anyone out in RMWeb-Land who would know more. The info in Flickr (clicking on the pic takes you to the site) doesn't mention the working. I always associated that to ECML

Thanks in advance

es grüßt

pc 

 

 

[61656]

An RU to RBR conversion is now a project I’m looking forward to. The problem with any blue grey alteration is the pesky white line and its cuvre at the corners. Potentially this conversion will only require some colour matching mid coach and avoid a full repaint. My other option, not open to you 3-4 years earlier, is to do it in IC mainline, which isn’t as hard as I first thought due to the availability of transfers for the red and white stripes.  
 

I think your actual biggest problem at the moment is that no-one has any Mk2fs in blue grey in stock. 

[61656]

3 hours ago, Padishar Creel said:

Hallo,

Going back to this photo, I find it unusual that there are 2 catering vehicles in a WCML formation. Anyone out in RMWeb-Land who would know more. The info in Flickr (clicking on the pic takes you to the site) doesn't mention the working. I always associated that to ECML

Thanks in advance

es grüßt

pc 

 

 

That’s a good question now you ask. I assumed it was just a stock balancing move, but why bother to marshall it next to the other buffet if not in use?

 

Potentially it’s an inter regional service, or even just a charter. 

[Bomag]

On 06/03/2021 at 07:22, Padishar Creel said:

Hallo,

Going back to this photo, I find it unusual that there are 2 catering vehicles in a WCML formation. Anyone out in RMWeb-Land who would know more. The info in Flickr (clicking on the pic takes you to the site) doesn't mention the working. I always associated that to ECML

Thanks in advance

es grüßt

pc 

 

 

I would assume that the second is a spare for a defective vehicle which they left in. I would not have thought that West Midland service would have had a need for two vehicles,  with the reduced journey times. 

 

The only timetables services in the 1980's which I am aware would have two restaurant vehicles in use would be the Manchester Pulmann (first Mk2z PFKs and them Mk3 RUB/RFB and Mk1 RKB).  The TSRB+TRUK pairing on HST - last disbanded 1984 and the pair of HST Pullman sets post 1985 (TRFB and TRFK) operated on the ECML.

 

The last plain RU went in the early 80's, including the air braked ones on the ECML.  After that all kitchen cars had buffet counters.

 

The Beryl and Cheryl Mk1 FO charter set in use in mid 1980's had two RBRs during this period they would have had a couple of FO's between them. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bomag

[InterCitySpud]

8 hours ago, 61656 said:

An RU to RBR conversion is now a project I’m looking forward to. The problem with any blue grey alteration is the pesky white line and its cuvre at the corners. Potentially this conversion will only require some colour matching mid coach and avoid a full repaint. My other option, not open to you 3-4 years earlier, is to do it in IC mainline, which isn’t as hard as I first thought due to the availability of transfers for the red and white stripes.  
 

I think your actual biggest problem at the moment is that no-one has any Mk2fs in blue grey in stock. 

Best of luck with the conversion. I knew there was a thread somewhere, if you have not read this I'm sure you'll find it very handy.

 

Luckily, or unluckily depending on how you look at it, I have some time on my side to accumulate a few full rakes as I'm stuck on an island until flights resume. I'm hoping for a bumper Christmas!

 

[WolfofBadenoch]

 Don't know if this helps but here's some photos of a Bachmann DBSO Mk2 F coupled to an Oxford Mk 3. Coupling is the Bachmann 'piping' accessory. Otherwise there straight out the box.

 

   

[Padishar Creel]

On 27/02/2021 at 17:16, Bomag said:

 RUBs were reclassified as RFB in 1986, I have not seen any photo with them as a RFB in blue grey (someone will now produce one!).

 

I know this wonderful thread has run its course, I learned so much more from it, and somehow I overlooked this challange.

Starting at 17m01s is a formation with a 3windowed RFB, from the amazing selection filmed by Alan Harrison.

 

es grüßt

pc 

 

 

[InterCitySpud]

On 07/03/2021 at 04:09, WolfofBadenoch said:

 Don't know if this helps but here's some photos of a Bachmann DBSO Mk2 F coupled to an Oxford Mk 3. Coupling is the Bachmann 'piping' accessory. Otherwise there straight out the box.

 

   

Thank you for posting these pics, yes a great help. I would love to see some prototypical blue/grey rakes made up especially as its impossible for me to size them up myself being so far away from any retailer!

 

I do like the look of the Oxford MK3s and mixing them with Bachmann MK2s seems the way forward so appreciate seeing them together.

 

From what I can see, internally they both seem quite accurate too, although I always tend to repaint interiors to the correct blue/orange, add the extra details, cushions and curtains in First and the buffet, not forgetting the passengers too!

 

[InterCitySpud]

7 hours ago, Padishar Creel said:

I know this wonderful thread has run its course, I learned so much more from it, and somehow I overlooked this challange.

Starting at 17m01s is a formation with a 3windowed RFB, from the amazing selection filmed by Alan Harrison.

 

es grüßt

pc 

 

 

Another brilliant Alan Harrison video, just made for this thread although by 1986 a lot more IC livery around and of course at Crewe more XC formations.

 

Our buffet conversation is nicely covered in the first few minutes.

 

0:21 we have the converted RU into RBR

1:34 a non stop MK3 RUB

2:21 standard RBR as per Hornby/Mainline

 

You're also correct in seeing an ex blue/grey RUB with the classification changed to First Class and so a RFB. Luckily Ill be modelling before the yellow band was added and smart passengers with a second class ticket can grab a Maxpax coffee and upgrade themselves! Assuming a full food service is not planned.

 

The other stand out missing link in modelling 1980-84ish is the absence of a decent MK2b on the market. Not many of the services into and out of Euston utilised them at the time but they did pop up on occasions and for a coach seen almost anywhere on the network you would have though someone would produce one since Lima in the eighties!

 

[MJI]

2C is more needed than 2B, I have converted a few Lima but Airfix are better for it.

[Padishar Creel]

On 06/03/2021 at 15:22, Bomag said:

 

I would assume that the second is a spare for a defective vehicle which they left in. I would not have thought that West Midland service would have had a need for two vehicles,  with the reduced journey times. 

 

The only timetables services in the 1980's which I am aware would have two restaurant vehicles in use would be the Manchester Pulmann (first Mk2z PFKs and them Mk3 RUB/RFB and Mk1 RFB).  The TSRB+TRUK pairing on HST - last disbanded 1984 and the pair of HST Pullman sets post 1985 (TRFB and TRFK) operated on the ECML.

 

The last plain RU went in the early 80's, including the air braked ones on the ECML.  After that all kitchen cars had buffet counters.

 

The Beryl and Cheryl Mk1 FO charter set in use in mid 1980's had two RBRs during this period they would have had a couple of FO's between them. 

Unashamedly replying, as it is amazing what catches your eye, even though you've seen the clip umpteen times before.

At 2m15s a WCML set with 2x RBR. My eyes are not good enough to tell if these are RU or RB conversions or one of each

 

es grüßt

pc 

 

[Bomag]

The first is an ex RU probably from Lot 30632 (1961 and above) and the second an exRB. Also the last train is the Manchester Pullman set with an RBR in place of a RKB