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Z21 and DCC Concepts Cobalt IP Issue


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This might be already on here but, I have 59 of the DCC Concepts IP Digital point motors all a working perfectly through a Z21. Added a new section with 13 additional point motors and added a Roco dual booster, put these 13 on here and was planning on splitting the rest but I am having issues. If I press the stop button, then restart some of centre point motors lose their address and seem to pick up another address meaning I go to change a point and three may operate. I then have to go back through readdress everything for it to happen the next day when restart everything. I don't understand as the other 59 don't have the issue, even when all connected to the z21 and not the booster it happens but only to the new 13 getting rather frustrating. Any ideas? 

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HI,

 

I'm wondering if the Z21 Maintenance Tool may be useful here as it displays the status of connected hardware, addresses and so on.  You might be able to see what's going on with those addresses during powering off and on. 

 

Also the old '+4' turnout addressing issue comes to mind.  You can detect if this is the issue if those turnout addresses that change are all incremented by 4, so 10 would become 14 and so on.  If so the Maintenance Tool can help resolve this.

 

Just ideas off the top of my head to try out.  Good luck with it.

 

Cheers ... Alan

      

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I suspect the motors are a little sensitive to spikes in the DCC signal.   So two things to try: 

 

1 -  adding a "snubber" to the DCC track wiring bus.   I think this is the most likely, a spike when the power goes on or off to the track.   This may have a different size in different parts of the layout wiring.   A snubber is a cheap resistor/capacitor, don't pay lots for one, the two components cost less than 20p from an electronics supplier.    

2 -  a chance that its the RailCom signal which is upsetting things.  So, if you don't use RailCom for other things, consider turning it off on the Z21.  

 

If neither of those, then send the motors back to the supplier and source something else.  

 

- Nigel

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Thank you Nigel, I have put a snubber in today and lowered output voltage from 18v to 16v see how this goes. 

 

Yeah quite a large layout, it has been built by my father and I have done the automation with iTrain. Was all working very well then since adding a centre section it has been a bit of a nightmare, getting through some of the technical issues now. 

 

Thanks Alan yeah have the off set for Z21, I address them on our ECoS and checked with that also which shows they have lost their address. Hopefully reduced voltage and the snubber work will see how it goes. 

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13 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

72 points is quite a layout, do you have anything modest about it that you would like to share with us?

 that is about average number of turnouts for the layouts I am involved with ( mine is in a 12 x 20ft room & has 85 turnouts)  , with turnout operation varied from all manual, solenoids, Tortoise & servos. But then here in Australia we do tend to have more space for a layout.

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13 hours ago, Sol said:

 that is about average number of turnouts for the layouts I am involved with ( mine is in a 12 x 20ft room & has 85 turnouts)  , with turnout operation varied from all manual, solenoids, Tortoise & servos. But then here in Australia we do tend to have more space for a layout.

Yes and I even assumed the poster was from the UK which was a schoolboy error.

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There was a problem a couple of years ago when a batch of Cobalts did seem to lose their numbers. Richard Johnson of DCC Concepts was aware of it. In my club we had 8 that seemed to do that but never quite sorted it out. Issue was confused as the new layout  didn't have a proper circuit breaker.  I fitted separate switches anyway so the problem went away. 

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Been running the layout over the weekend, centre now works nicely, put the centre accessories on a Z21 booster with a snubber. The main layout is now on the Z21 with a snubber also, I switched layout on earlier and none of the points on the main layout work. On testing found no output on the snubber?? Testing voltage output from Z21 which was 14v, push the stop button and then again the voltage jumped over 60v for split second before settling back to 14v. Should it jump this far up? I know it will have an initial jump but wasn't expecting it to be that high surely that will do damage? 

20210307_184919.jpg

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The 'snubber' goes across the track bus wires and there is no output from the snubber as it is simply a resistor and capacitor in series.

 

The voltage measured is therefore the track voltage.

 

You can set the Z21 to either issue an Emergency Stop command or to cut of the track power when you press the Stop button, clearly they have different effects and you don't say which way you have it set.

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I have been trying to find out what this device is, as it says Dcc in on one end and out on other, I was told it was a snubber but can't seem to find any more details on it. The stop button on Z21 is configured to cut track or in this case accessory power, which it did but on reapplying power there is a large spike momentarily in voltage. I measured the voltage from the Z21 without the rest of the layout connected. The multimeter I have is unable to record the max voltage in time, I have some at work which will, just wanted to know if this was normal? 

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You can buy the bits to make a snubber  for pennies - 1 x 100 ohm 1/2 watt resistor and 1 x 0.1 uF 25v capacitor  connected in series across the DCC bus. 
 

I suggest that you scrap whatever it is you have and make one.

Edited by WIMorrison
Corrected auto Spelling
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14 hours ago, Tommyp81 said:

I have been trying to find out what this device is, as it says Dcc in on one end and out on other, I was told it was a snubber but can't seem to find any more details on it. 

 

The item you have is a surge suppressor - wired in series with the bus to partially limit the inrush current on the likes of ADS solenoid decoders.

(It is used on rare occasions when a DCC system is sensitive to start up current)

It is not a DCC bus suppressor.

 

As others have said - a bus suppressor is wired across the two wires.

 

Best Regards,

The DCCconcepts team

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Hi Tommy,

 

Here's a couple of pics of snubbers I made up for my previous layout - very basic components and fitted across the end of the twin DCC bus wires:

 

The components:

807885938_Snubber1.jpg.7f202a49badabfe5f06e79044c8b4e54.jpg

 

Assembling:

773368239_Snubber2.jpg.15d552c254bdf3c1bde3f6cd80fc66d4.jpg

 

Fitted across the end of the DCC bus:

1163116201_Snubber3.jpg.80fc46833cb3424ceb0b4e5eb4e91944.jpg

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers ... Alan

 

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