S&DJR Coach Liveries - Lined & Unlined?

[Paul Cram]

18 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

... [enough said]

 

 

Lucky you!

They were purchased when we were building a model of Cole. 2 have been built but not finished. One method of doing the lining was to scrape the paint off the panel edge to reveal the brass. From the photos none of them seemed to have black on the raised moulding apart from 1 that looks like an official photo.

[Paul Cram]

From the blacksmiths instructions it seems the livery was chanhed in 1917 to black and chrome yellow

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Paul Cram said:

From the blacksmiths instructions it seems the livery was chanhed in 1917 to black and chrome yellow

 

Midland Style suggests earlier, from c. 1912, which would be consistent with Derby practice. Little or no difference in appearance from a distance anyway, as the 1/8" vermillion lines would tend to give a more golden effect. Larry Goddard states that one should always use yellow on a model, even where gold leaf was used on the prototype, as gold paint never gives the right effect.

 

11 minutes ago, Paul Cram said:

From the photos none of them seemed to have black on the raised moulding apart from 1 that looks like an official photo.

 

I'm pretty sure that's down to the photographic technology of the day, on a carriage that is in less than ex-works condition. The same can be seen on photos of Midland carriages where the varnish is past its prime. With a less reflective surface, the difference in hue is less apparent. But we can be confident that the black was there. The photos of S&DJR bogie carriages in the Derby collection are clearly of carriages that have been in service some time.

 

[Paul Cram]

It would be after either 1912 or 1917 depending on who is right. The instructions have a full list of resources and contacts although the contacts are probably now out of date. Prior to this it says blue with gold lining.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Paul Cram said:

It would be after either 1912 or 1917 depending on who is right. The instructions have a full list of resources 

 

Out of curiosity, what is the reference for the 1917 date?

[phil_sutters]

On 03/03/2021 at 09:14, Compound2632 said:

Places pedant hat on head.

 

Both the vans - the model one and the square-panelled one in Phil's photo, are fruit and milk vans. Parcels traffic would be carried in the guard's brake. The S&DJR had no parcels vans as such. In the days of the 6-wheelers, a common formation was brake / third / first / third / brake, providing ample accommodation for parcels traffic. The bogie third brakes also had ample parcels space. 

 

Replaces pedant hat on peg. (I keep it handy by the computer...)

I have corrected the caption. I can't change the caption on the one in my gallery as I am not a Gold member. I am always happy to correct inaccurate captions.

6.12.2021 update - flashing my now acquired Gold badge -  I have now changed the caption here and in the album to just Milk van as established by Stephen's research.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by phil_sutters

[Paul Cram]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Out of curiosity, what is the reference for the 1917 date?

The information was collated by S Ehrlicher who was (is?) the S&DRT Coaching Steward. George Dow isn't definitive on the 1912 date assuming it was the same as the Midland. Some of the sources quoted are the S&D Trsut bulletins. I will need to find the ones I have to check if there is further information in there.

[Compound2632]

53 minutes ago, Paul Cram said:

The information was collated by S Ehrlicher who was (is?) the S&DRT Coaching Steward. 

I am interested that there is (or was) such an officer of the Trust. Does the Trust hold much information on the topic beyond the photos that are in the various publications? Do they hold material that would enable the writing of that Illustrated History of S&DJR Carriages that @Steamport Southport was hoping for?

 

Those Blacksmith instructions must have been written in the 1980s?

 

EDIT - Steve Ehrlicher is evidently active, judging by the latest number of the Trust's magazine.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Compound2632

[Paul Cram]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

I am interested that there is (or was) such an officer of the Trust. Does the Trust hold much information on the topic beyond the photos that are in the various publications? Do they hold material that would enable the writing of that Illustrated History of S&DJR Carriages that @SDJR7F88 was hoping for?

I can't answer that. My copies of the bulletin range from 115 to 151. There is a review in one of them of Blacksmiths coaches which references Gordon Weddels drawings and various photographs in earlier copies of the bulletin. There is also a note in another that says to conmtact S Ehrlicher for a copy of the information he holds on the carriages and NPCS.

[Paul Cram]

The instructions for the coaches date to the mid 80s and include drawings.

[Steamport Southport]

I don't want anyone to go to any bother on my behalf as I don't even model the S&DJR. 

 

I was just wondering whether a definitive book existed as there seems to be lots of information, but it's scattered in different places.

 

I'll keep an eye out for the kits though. They're the type of things you find hidden under tables at exhibitions (when they restart) whilst everyone is fighting over the bargain RTR models.

 

Other than that it's a NPCCS train with Roxey Milk Vans and LRM Horseboxes. I can make up the rest using MR, LSWR and other company vehicles. Maybe a horsebox train as there must have been traffic going to Wincanton.

 

It's just for something to go behind a locomotive bought for it's prettiness TBH. Already got the transfers as they are on the MR sheet.

 

 

Jason

[phil_sutters]

One of the best books for photos of S&D stock is Highbridge in its heyday by Colin Maggs - from Oakwood Press. It doesn't have much to say on liveries however.

[Compound2632]

The attached may be of interest. Not all the photos listed with DY numbers are necessarily extant, they are however recorded in the Derby Registers. If you make use of it, cite me as the author. If I've missed any, I'd be pleased to know!

 

S&DJR photographs index Stephen Lea March 2021.xlsx