Will price increase in new and second hand models make people scratch build?

[Ravenser]

There's a further issue here - what's your time worth? A kit doesn't just consume money, building it also consumes time. Quite a lot of it

 

At the moment, with lockdown, time is at a discount and money at a premium for a lot of people. I have not a lot better to do than to spend time reworking old Lima and Hornby coaches with bits I already have in stock. But it's taken quite a lot of modelling activity over several months to do it. The time input for building a plastic wagon kit is fairly modest, the time spent on weathering and couplings would be  much the same with RTR. On the other hand building a pair of MJT coach bogies looks like it takes about as long as assembling a wagon kit.

 

A skilled craftsman doesn't just do the job to a much higher build-standard . A skilled craftsman also does the job very much quicker than ordinary mortals, something that's easy to miss. One very instructive aspect to Coachmann's postings on here was that he didn'[t just build and paint coaches to a very high standard. He built them quickly. A metal coach seemed to take him 1-2 days work, plus a couple of days work to paint them (as part of a batch) . For most of us , that would be 1-3 month's work . As someone who depended on building stock to earn a living he had to work quickly, and in several places he made it clear that he didn't and couldn't tolerate laborious and very slow approaches to modelling problems. He couldn't afford to.

 

Similarly I recall Tony Wright saying on a couple of occasions that he normally only takes a few days to build a loco kit. But he's built an awful lot - and knows exactly what he's doing. The rest of us might take a year of painstaking faltering work to do it. 

 

For the skilled craftsman , kit-building can be a lot more effective a route than it is for most of us - for reasons we tend to overlook. The finescale movement has tended to suggest that the more laborious and demanding the work involved in building a model the better it is. The really skilled craftsman makes a different assumption.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Ravenser

[Jeff Smith]

36 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

There's a further issue here - what's your time worth? A kit doesn't just consume money, building it also consumes time. Quite a lot of it

It's horses for courses.  I'd rather spend my time building a kit than watching RTR trains go round and round or back and forth; and I have tried both.  However, finished (rolling stock) kits do have to function as that is part of the pleasure....or pain!

[Jol Wilkinson]

Ravenser,

 

in answer to your question, my time is worth a lot to me as I enjoy spending it  model making.  The OP refers to the increasing cost of RTR models and, as usual, price is often quoted as the overriding factor while the satisfaction and enjoyment from making something is too often ignored.

 

Where time is a major consideration then buying ready built models may be be the only answer. However I get the impression that amassing a large collection of RTR models becomes important in its own right, whereas  many kit builders are satisfied with sufficient to run their layout. Currently I have thirteen finished locos, two in the final stages, six kits un-started and just a couple more on the purchase list.  That's a collection built up over twenty five years. Will I need more to run my layout? Not really.

 

I have a couple of friends who have collections of sixty or more RTR locos and buy new models that match their interests (and sometimes not) as they become available. Yet they only need about  twenty of so to run their layouts at any one time, so many remain in boxes or on display shelves.

[muddy water]

Time/money is a factor Which does come in to it. Currently I am furlough, so money is tight. But I have time!

Thought I would get a class 205 Berkshire DEMU. It has the larger guard/luggage area and only 4 passenger bays. So if I got the Bachmann/Kernow thumper (£250) I would still have to modify the DMBS and then find a trailer second to make the third carriage.

Instead I am making it from Bachmann mk1 suburban coaches, Class 25 gear bogie, Replica MLV cabs, mk1 under frames and a  Mk1 BG. (All these are in the spares cupboard) Drawings are from the Barrowmore MRG and reference photos from the internet. 
What I have learnt is RTR is not always the whole picture. There are other versions of railway equipment out there that are not modelled. If I had got the RTR class 205 it would have been the same as everyone else’s. But as I have had to do research about the differences of the Thumpers (2H, 3H, 3T , etc...) I have a greater knowledge and understanding of it. Rather than spend  minutes on the computer ordering it and when it arrives opening the box and just putting it on the track without knowing anything about it.

[Ravenser]

37 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Ravenser,

 

in answer to your question, my time is worth a lot to me as I enjoy spending it  model making.  The OP refers to the increasing cost of RTR models and, as usual, price is often quoted as the overriding factor while the satisfaction and enjoyment from making something is too often ignored.

 

Where time is a major consideration then buying ready built models may be be the only answer. However I get the impression that amassing a large collection of RTR models becomes important in its own right, whereas  many kit builders are satisfied with sufficient to run their layout. Currently I have thirteen finished locos, two in the final stages, six kits un-started and just a couple more on the purchase list.  That's a collection built up over twenty five years. Will I need more to run my layout? Not really.

 

I have a couple of friends who have collections of sixty or more RTR locos and buy new models that match their interests (and sometimes not) as they become available. Yet they only need about  twenty of so to run their layouts at any one time, so many remain in boxes or on display shelves.

 

 

It depends what an individual modeller's aims are.

 

In my case , making things is a means to an end , and the part I enjoy most is admiring the finished product. And I get frustrated if the dratted thing then stalls or falls off. All that effort - and the thing doesn't work! And a model sitting in a box is ultimately a model unfulfilled

 

I am conscious that it's taken me about 7 years to turn out 6 x 2 car sets of coaches, and that represents a major part of my modelling output over that time. And there are 3 RTR coaches, in those 12 , though they have all had painted interiors , weathering, Kadees etc (and three detailed CKD/RTR to boot). If I need things in quantity for a layout in a reasonable timeframe  this isn't really the way to go

 

On the other hand , in muddywaters' position , (and mine) the approach he's taken  makes a lot of sense, and it doesn't involve RTR

 

I've been trying for some years to rein in my new purchases and new projects . The Hornby Sentinel is very nice and would suit the Boxfile well - but I have two Judith Edge kits in the cupboard, so I've passed. Both kits are still unstarted , despite lockdown. Nigel Burkin claimed that it took him 90 minutes to assemble the Branchlines etched chassis for the Hornby Pacer. My first Pacer has been dragging on/stalled for a decade, though admittedly I decided to rebuilt the black box on the underframe.

 

In this situation you can understand why I might buy Locomotion's Hardwicke as a trophy - but wouldn't buy and build LRM's etched brass Spinner. And doing the accompanying blue/grey Mk1s courtesy of Bachmann is much easier than building Comet kits (Though if I can manage to spray blue/grey well from a spray can it might well end up with a TSO from Kitmaster/MJT/Replica bits coupled to a Bachmann BSK...)

 

The tipping point between RTR and kit varies in each case . But I can certainly see plenty of scope for kitbuilding wagons, and the arguments for coach kits can be quite finely poised now. Especially when there are no shows, and the shops are shut, and the time and money that would have been consumed by them and buying new RTR effectively gets diverted to making stuff from the cupboard. I will not be buying a new Bachmann mk1 TSO at £45 when I have existing RTR in boxes unused and two routes to a home-built TSO at little or no additional spend

 

On the other hand I did buy the Invicta Fisons weedkiller train (2  Bachmann LMS Portholes) and I couldn't build a comparable coach to that level of finesse. The second-hand MTK Brake third kit I bought for a fiver hasn't been started - though that will go into maroon for the kettle "funny trains" sets , and I'm confident I can get a decent finish with plain maroon.

 

If building, rather than the final outcome, is the main motivation , that become a different calculus.

 

On the other hand I've suffered under rolling stock built by avowed stock-builders who had no real interest in running the stuff - and were therefore oblivious to the fact that their stock-building achievements fell off at the first curve or point, and as a result had no interest in fixing them so they stayed on the track and did a job of work. In my book  if it won't run reliably , the model is a failure...

[Legend]

To answer the question posed directly....No . There is a huge step involved in scratch building something . My feeling is as prices go up people will still buy the models they absolutely want but that discretionary spending eg on the “nice to haves” will go down to compensate . That’s certainly what I’m doing . 

[Phil Parker]

6 hours ago, Ravenser said:

There's a further issue here - what's your time worth? A kit doesn't just consume money, building it also consumes time. Quite a lot of it

 

It depends on what you are in the hobby for. If it's owning stuff, then time is money. If you enjoy modelling, then time spent is pleasure. I've always been in the hobby for the pleasure of making things.

[Grizz]

Some nice work with that Thumper, Muddy Water, I had a go at a couple myself some years ago using Replica coaches and parts. 

Scratch building isn’t for everyone but for some it is very satisfying.  Generally I am pretty hopeless with metal, especially soldering brass kits but I have become fairly reasonable with styrene.
I’ve just got my son into scratch building. We started with the simplest things, a line side hut out of styrene sheet and some wagon loads of scrap and old Peco wooden sleepers stuck into stacks. 
 

My particular interest was in modern wagons as I couldn’t get the types I wanted or afford the huge numbers of them I wanted. So opted to try with simple JNA box style wagon. If anyone is interested in the subject check out Marco Blanco’s wagons! The man is a legend. 
 

Also the late Colin Parks. His emus and units were amazing as well as the buildings and layouts. So inspiring. But this is is to name but a couple of the multitude of truly talented people posting on here. Keep up the good work. 
 

ATB Grizz

 

 

 

[Grizz]

23 hours ago, Ravenser said:

And I'm currently upgrading an old Lima  Mk1 TSO I've had for years. As I had all the bits , cost - nowt . More cautiously, a Triang Hornby Mk1 can be had for a tenner, and MJT bogies and sundry  items to upgrade should come to about £20. I'm currently doing an NNX Courier van - something not available RTR - by that route.

 

Ravenser you may have already considered this but just in case.....

 

Replica Railways do some great bogies that can be used under MK1 and MK2 coaches. £1.95 for a pair, without the wheels. I’ve used loads of B4 and B5s under Bachmann MK1s. I use Bachmann spare wheels, 36-017. I then chop off the couplings and install smaller tension lock couplings and modify the top, copying the Bachmann bogie pivot. 
 

The people at Replica were so helpful last week, big thanks to them. 
 

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/spares-and-accessories/accessories

 

 

 

[6990WitherslackHall]

I scratch-built a makeshift flat wagon a while back. I used an old Lima wagon chassis and the sleepers from the Ratio 519 Large Grounded Coach body kit. The intention was that it was supposed to look like it's been built from salvaged materials. Perhaps some detailing, a paint and some weathering will further enhance that idea...

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by 6990WitherslackHall

[Ravenser]

16 hours ago, Grizz said:

Ravenser you may have already considered this but just in case.....

 

Replica Railways do some great bogies that can be used under MK1 and MK2 coaches. £1.95 for a pair, without the wheels. I’ve used loads of B4 and B5s under Bachmann MK1s. I use Bachmann spare wheels, 36-017. I then chop off the couplings and install smaller tension lock couplings and modify the top, copying the Bachmann bogie pivot. 
 

The people at Replica were so helpful last week, big thanks to them. 
 

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/spares-and-accessories/accessories

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the comment.

 

As it happens I've got a pair of Replica B4s in the spares box stripped off the NRX conversion which got  Bachmann Commonwealths. But when I took a look at it , the ride height wouldn't have been correct, I'd have had to rework the mounting arrangements - and I had MJT bogie etches and cosmetic whitemetal sideframes in stock. (i came to the same conclusion with the Hornby Mk2a BFK, which needs replacement bogies as the originals won't stand comparison with the MJT versions on the TSO)

 

I've also used the MJT NEM socket etch, and this gives a plug in facility for Kadees at the correct height I'm a Kadee user, and fitting the things can we an ongoing hassle without a correctly sited NEM socket.

 

The TSO rides very well, and stays on the track perfectly with all the weight in the bogie. It was actually the Bachmann BSK that derailed , until I swapped a bogie off a stored SK - then both vehicles ran through the affected area without problems  (Explain that). And I find the press-stud attachment of the bogies convenient and effective, especially when I don't want to break into a coach . You can always remove them to paint, or even to swap bogies 

 

So on balance , I'm quite happy to invest the time and effort into building MJT bogies : they seem a lot more effective than  - say - the rather fragile plastic ones on Ratio coach kits. But it is a factor in the calculation as to where the game is worth the candle for a particular project.

 

Unless it's for a vehicle not available RTR, then I don't think a full dress metal coach kit of the Comet/MJT variety is going to be competitive with a good modern RTR model. And I don't think you'll be building many of them. On the other hand reworking things you already own, using materials you already have, or buying and building a bargain secondhand kit might well stack up against buying a new RTR model - when money is tight and time is plentiful

 

And the other issue which hasn't been touched on is that a lot of modern RTR isn't actually available at a given time. For example , at present you can't actually buy a blue/grey Mk1 TSO off the shelf , though a WR Hornby Railroad one can be pre-ordered. So you might have to buy an SK , replace the interior with a Replica moulding and renumber. At that point, reworking something you already have may make better sense

 

Rebuilding a donor vehicle with Comet sides is a recognised approach, and if you have a suitable donor and can't immediately buy the RTR equivalent, that can make sense too

 

It's locos where kits find it extremely difficult to compete now

 

(I've just bought some Replica underframe equipment packs - trying to cut down Comet underframe  castings to fit a floor level at the bottom of the solebar is hassle I can do without. This makes the weight of the MJT cast sideframes more important)

Edited March 7, 2021 by Ravenser

[Jol Wilkinson]

"It's locos where kits find it extremely difficult to compete now"

 

Only if the RTR manufacturers make the model that you want. For example there are kits for about twenty five LNWR locomotives in production at present (some from more than one manufacturer in different formats such as white metal or etched brass) There have been even more if you count those no longer in production but sometimes available s/h. By comparison there is one LNWR loco currently available RTR, one promised for later this year and a third, which although describes as LNWR, is in post 1923 condition. 

 

I expect that the situation is much the same for other pre-group and early Big Four prototypes. On the other hand, if LNER/BR(E) Pacifics are your thing, then there is no shortage of RTR models.

[Grizz]

59 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

And the other issue which hasn't been touched on is that a lot of modern RTR isn't actually available at a given time. For example , at present you can't actually buy a blue/grey Mk1 TSO off the shelf , though a WR Hornby Railroad one can be pre-ordered. So you might have to buy an SK , replace the interior with a Replica moulding and renumber. At that point, reworking something you already have may make better sense

 

Totally agree. Blue and Grey and Intercity Exec TSOs always cost more and sell out disproportionately fast. There are probably people buying them up in bulk and then selling them at inflated prices later. The new Hornby MK3 sleepers in both those liveries have sold out on preorder on quite a few sites already. That has taken but a few weeks. So they will definitely turn up on a well known site at double the price within a year. 
 

I did exactly what you mentioned with the Replica interior. I’ve loads of Bachmann MK1 SKs in various liveries, which were considerably cheaper and far more widely available at the time of purchase. So from the great people at Replica I bought some MK1 TSO interior seat sets and adapted them to fit the SKs altering the numbering and body details to suit. Well cheaper than buying Bachmann TSOs, especially in Blue and Grey. 
 

Replica also do plastic air brake details great for up grading to Vac and Air stock, or just air only. 
 

As you say, makes load more sense.

[Clive Mortimore]

On 06/03/2021 at 14:06, muddy water said:

Time/money is a factor Which does come in to it. Currently I am furlough, so money is tight. But I have time!

Thought I would get a class 205 Berkshire DEMU. It has the larger guard/luggage area and only 4 passenger bays. So if I got the Bachmann/Kernow thumper (£250) I would still have to modify the DMBS and then find a trailer second to make the third carriage.

Instead I am making it from Bachmann mk1 suburban coaches, Class 25 gear bogie, Replica MLV cabs, mk1 under frames and a  Mk1 BG. (All these are in the spares cupboard) Drawings are from the Barrowmore MRG and reference photos from the internet. 
What I have learnt is RTR is not always the whole picture. There are other versions of railway equipment out there that are not modelled. If I had got the RTR class 205 it would have been the same as everyone else’s. But as I have had to do research about the differences of the Thumpers (2H, 3H, 3T , etc...) I have a greater knowledge and understanding of it. Rather than spend  minutes on the computer ordering it and when it arrives opening the box and just putting it on the track without knowing anything about it.

Oooo I like that.

 

Cutting and shutting to make what you want is great fun. Once I have done a few i look at the left overs "What can I make from you?"

The start of a Cravens Motor Parcels Van

 

As for scratchbuilding who would be so daft.

LNER steel bodied BSK-SK twin.

 

LNER Tourist SO-SO twin.

 

I enjoy opening boxes and seeing RTR run around the train set as well as my own bodges. I never compare the cost of RTR, kits or homemade. If I want a model and have the dosh to hand then it saves me making it. If I want something and no RTR or Kit is available, or in some cases I want the challenge of having a go myself, I get out the tools. Most of all I want to have fun with my hobby.

 

I have a simple set of rules about railway modelling,

1, You must like watching toy trains running.

2, You must like making models.

3, You must like researching stuff about trains.

4, You must like seeing what others make.

5, You must accept that others have their own taste in music but will never be as good as your own.

6, there is no rule six.

7, You must have fun with your toy trains.

 

Rule one, two, three and seven in action.

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Clive Mortimore

[Ravenser]

36 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

"It's locos where kits find it extremely difficult to compete now"

 

Only if the RTR manufacturers make the model that you want. For example there are kits for about twenty five LNWR locomotives in production at present (some from more than one manufacturer in different formats such as white metal or etched brass) There have been even more if you count those no longer in production but sometimes available s/h. By comparison there is one LNWR loco currently available RTR, one promised for later this year and a third, which although describes as LNWR, is in post 1923 condition. 

 

I expect that the situation is much the same for other pre-group and early Big Four prototypes. On the other hand, if LNER/BR(E) Pacifics are your thing, then there is no shortage of RTR models.

 

 

But then loco kits aren't competing with RTR: they're filling in the gaps around RTR .

 

The LNWR has been badly served, probably because the LMS "scrap and build" policy meant that a lot of LNWR classes barely reached Nationalisation. If you look at the situation for the GER, MR, SECR, GWR , LBSCR and even GNR it's rather different, particularly if you want post 1923 condition. And the great majority of people do.

 

Pretty well every significant class of loco designed after Grouping has been done RTR, and the kit ranges have suffered accordingly (I suppose LMS 2-6-2Ts and Austin Sevens are outstanding, but not much else).

 

The OP's argument was that prices had risen to the point where kits or even scratchbuilding were now competitive with RTR , and for locos that's plainly not the case. In a similar vein Mk 1 coaches have been more or less covered RTR except for specialist catering veghicles and conversions. Big Four coaches are quite well covered RTR but there are still plenty of specialist vehicles open for kit ranges

 

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

There are three classes of LNWR loco either already or soon-to-be available—not counting the ROD. There are four GNR. There are three LBSCR and three GER. So, the LNWR doesn't come off all that badly.

 

The GER J67/69 is another obvious "missing" class, though there is now a 3-D printed body available.

[Jeff Smith]

All three of my different North London tanks were kit built.  I cannot imagine any of them being made RTR.  The Met/LT 4-4-0T Beyer Peacock, ex K's Milestone had to be kitbuilt too.  However I thought the same about the Met/LT Metrovic, I scratch built one from styrene (the Radley kit looked a bit too chunky), and then along came Heljan......

[tomparryharry]

On 05/03/2021 at 03:57, PatB said:

As far as cost saving is concerned, kitbuilding is a non-starter. Kits are not cheap and, contrary to seemingly widespread belief, they never were. Beyond Airfix, kits have pretty much always been more expensive than equivalent r-t-r. The only rational reason to build a kit has always been in order to obtain something you simply couldn't get r-t-r, or at least to the standard that you wanted, in which case the only option was to pay whatever it cost. With the explosion in r-t-r variety and improvements in quality and detail over the past 25 years (let's ignore Design Clever for the purpose of the exercise), the need to do this has diminished considerably, at least in 4mm.

 

True scratchbuilding, OTOH, perhaps does offer some savings. Doing it the 1940s/50s way, in the style of Freezer, Denny, Jenkinson, Williams et al needn't be expensive or require vast amounts of space or equipment, at least for the production of bodies and chassis. Motors, wheels and gears are something of another matter. Buying them from the specialists will easily push the cost of a model into r-t-r territory. There is some scope to cannibalise old r-t-r offerings for their mechanical bits, but, practically, that requires access to a well stocked stash of bits and pieces, either your own, a mate's or that of a dealer who isn't intent on retiring on the proceeds.

 

What old-school scratchbuilding also requires is an endless reserve of patience (do you really fancy cutting out every layer of a panelled coach by hand, David Jenkinson style?), a willingness to compromise to accommodate ones own limitations and those of the materials and methods available, and an acceptance that a lot of the end results of the staggering amounts of effort required won't actually be very good. Yes, that's right. Whilst there have been many absolutely superb scratchbuilt models, it has to be admitted that a lot of the work shown in the 1950s model press, even by the masters on occasion, is, whilst a great tribute to their efforts, actually pretty iffy. Reading between the lines of contemporary reports, it often didn't work very well either.

 

Given that the number of people actually doing extensive scratchbuilding was probably quite small back then, and contained a significant proportion only doing it because it was the only available means to a desired end, how many people now have the leisure and motivation? At least in the indoor scales? Ironically, something big and perceived as expensive, like SM32 probably offers more scope for economies as, apart from wheels, it's not too hard to build something satisfactory using DIY warehouse materials and mechanical bits from your local (or online) electronics supplier.

 

I don't build kits to save money: I build kits to have something that won't ordinarily appear RTR.   As new RTR gets released, so the suppliers of super detailing  parts sell those bits that manufacturers  can't or won't supply/sell. 

 

I think 3D printing is an excellent way forward, and power to their collective elbows. In the meantime, I'll keep moving on with my little projects.  There are kits that I'd like to buy, but it seems that about 75% of 'Bay are also those things I'm interested in.  

[corneliuslundie]

Having read this thread, I have thought about four recent projects.

First for my Sarn layout (think of the Kerry branch in 1930) I needed a suitable loco. None are available RTR so I have just finished an ex GEM white metal kit for GWR 1196 (ex Cambrian) on an etched chassis, which I compensated and built split frame and fitted with a High-Level gearbox. The cost was about the same as a typical RTR 0-6-0 tank loco.

Secondly, also for Sarn, in 1930 the Kerry branch brake van was one of the old GWR outside framed type but rebuilt with doors so it could carry parcels etc. I purchased wheels, axle boxes and buffers, the rest scratch built. Cheaper than an RTR brake van but in any case not available RTR (until next week probably!).

Thirdly, I need a back-up loco for Sarn, and a 2021 saddle tank is one of the few classes which are suitable, There is an etched kit (£95) and then I will need wheels, motor etc. So definitely a good deal more expensive than an RTR pannier tank,

Finally, Ihave just finished a scratch built LNWR timber wagon for the club's 7 mm layout. The drawing and photos were in the LNWR wagons book. But I had to buy wheels, axleboxes and buffers. Total something like £25 and I have ignored the cost of the plastic sheet, strip etc, paint, transfers etc as they were in stock (though had to be paid for once). So cheaper than RTR but still not negligible.

But my main modelling project is the Rhymney Railway in 1912. Two locos have in the past been available as kits and I bought them - one was made up by a friend and the other is currently being built by another friend. These kits are "challenging" and beyond my capabilities. Probably more expensive than any RTR 0-6-0 or 0-6-2 tank loco. But I have scratch built most of the goods vehicles for which information is available, buying in wheels, axleboxes (usually ) and buffers. These are not available RTR or as kits (there is a goods van originally by Derek Mundy and I have three). They are probably cheaper than RTR but again not available. I have a rake of RR 6-wheel coaches on the workbench using Trevor Charlton etched zinc sides and etched Clemison chassis. Almost certainly not cheaper than an equivalent RTR would be - if there was one.

I admit that I enjoy building wagons, but I will still but RTR or kits if they are available. For example I have dozens of kit built PO coal wagons.

So horses for courses and if like me you model an obscure prototype you have to scratch build.

But to get back to the OP's question, for me there has not over the years been much difference is cost between kits and RTR by the time you add in the little extras such as couplings, [paint, transfers etc. But I enjoy building things (I even have to build my own track as the Rhymney in the earlier days used flat bottomed track).

Jonathan

PS My daughter was building Slaters PO wagon kits when she was 12. They are a very good start for anyone wanting to have a try.

[The Johnster]

My choice of prototype was influenced by the available RTR stock.  There were other influences but this was probably the most important.  The rationale was that I was 64 years old 5 years ago when the layout was started, and reckoned on 25 years tops before I pop it or go gaga.  It is intended to be my last layout, and needed to be operational and a state that could be described as finished as soon as I could manage.  I like modelling but operating is my priority, to the 1955 Rule Book with locos and stock as correct as I can manage and with plausible scenery. 
 

RTR can and has supplied most of my needs with regard to locos and all with regard to goods and mineral stock, but coaching stock is less well served and the answer here is kits, largely Comet.  I have some Parkside wagons in order to incorporate some variety into my minerals, and nobody does a decent RTR Mica B.  But from here on in it’s scratchbuilding or kitbashing; Collett 1938 31xx, and Diagram N, A10, or TVR twin set auto trailers.  An old Wills 1854 needs a new Southeastern chassis, wheels, motor, and gears , probably the next project
 

This suits me, providing serious modelling for a good few years yet as an alternative to operating, according to my mood.  There are of course other matters to attend to as well; the mountain backdrop is a work in progress, as is the village, and I haven’t even started the point rodding.  There’s plenty to do yet, and I fully expect the layout and the things I want to model on it to last me out!

 

I have all the RTR locos I will probably ever need now, for which my poor longsuffering shrivelled up malnourished wallet is no doubt grateful...

[Tartaruga]

On 03/03/2021 at 17:27, muddy water said:

Since the pandemic statutes in March 2020, more and more people have started model railways. This is great for the hobby.

Though It has caused a problem with supply of models. Resulting in price increases in new and second hand online sales. Where basic, older models are going for incredible sums.

 

As a result of this are people turning to scratch building, not buying any more or just paying the increased prices?
 

I have been going through the cupboards finding stuff I bought years ago and final constructing them!

So I will only need glue and solder!
 

 

 

As somebody who this question is aimed at I would say yes.

After returning for the first time since a teenager where I used to spend my pocket money on model railways, this is clearly no longer the case. I had to get my dad to cough up some money for a set for my youngest.

As somebody else has mentioned prices are high for other hobbies but this is one that can be achieved through kit-bulding.

I have already scratchbuilt some buildings and will move on to a wagon next. The buildings were made from cardboard around the house and if they get broken or my kid loses interest then no problem.

Now my interest is renewed I will be attempting to make most of a layout by hand

[Grizz]

A part scratch built and part hacked RTR coach. 
Quite a few years ago I started a British Rail what might have been coach, a MK2F Sleeper, using a Lima MK2F ex FO. The idea being that BR had a surplus FO that BREL played around with, much the same as I did. Originally it was a Lima Scotrail MK2F FO, then withdrawn from frontline service it became a DTFO for the Research Department and then some years later the prototype MK2 Sleeper. The project stalled for some years because I needed some decent flush glazing. Amazingly a couple of weeks ago a bunch of Extreme Etchings Laserglaze showed up on a well known site and fortunately I managed to bag it, along with a load for Airfix / Mainline MK2D TSOs etc. 
 

The fictional era for the BREL MK2F Sleeper is set in the Blue and Grey period as it allows me the greatest flexibility for the trains I want it to run with. 
 

 

 

 

The original Lima bogies are going to be replaced with Replica B5s, on the basis that I like the idea of using these instead of B4s. Both toilets have been removed as the coach is designed to run with other coaches with toilets. One end of the coach has a toilet area changed to a wide door for disabled access and for servicing purposes. Livery wise doing the white lining on the blue and grey is a bit of a pig to get straight. I plan to cut in another wide door on the other side of the coach, directly opposite the first one. The only other thing might be the internal layout, without bunk beds, just singles on each side of each compartment that can be changed to day seating arrangements when not in use as a sleeper. I’m probably going to do an Intercity Red White Stripe version as well, as I’ve got loads of surplus Airfix FOs.....

[tomparryharry]

On 12/03/2021 at 18:20, Tartaruga said:

 

As somebody who this question is aimed at I would say yes.

After returning for the first time since a teenager where I used to spend my pocket money on model railways, this is clearly no longer the case. I had to get my dad to cough up some money for a set for my youngest.

As somebody else has mentioned prices are high for other hobbies but this is one that can be achieved through kit-bulding.

I have already scratchbuilt some buildings and will move on to a wagon next. The buildings were made from cardboard around the house and if they get broken or my kid loses interest then no problem.

Now my interest is renewed I will be attempting to make most of a layout by hand

 

Good for you! My old  dad ( RiP ) was a dab-hand at layout building.  Scratch building is a much-maligned art. I get a real sense of well-being when I achieve something.  Thanks to the pages here, I reconditioned a soldering Iron yesterday.  By rights, I should have kept it in A1 condition anyway, but before, I probably might have chucked it away.

[MJI]

I tend to collect piles of bits to build vehicles.

 

Some mark 1 TSOs using Triang underframes, cut and spilced sides, Replica glazing and interiors, MJT vents.

 

Waste of time compared to buying Bachmann.

 

A DMU using etched sides, Lima floors, Triang roofs, MJT and resin bogies, another will be Triang floors and roofs and plastic card sides.

 

Not really scratch built as I use things to make it easier, but definitely home built

[HonestTom]

Per the original question, I think it really depends on your priorities. If there's a RTR model of a prototype I really want but can't financially justify, then I'd probably just save up for it. I could scratchbuild, but it would probably take longer than saving up would, and there is zero chance that it would be up to the standard of the model.

 

I tend to view scratchbuilding and kit building almost as separate subsections of the hobby. I've started to really enjoy upgrading older wagons and locomotives, and putting buildings together out of card and paper is immensely satisfying, but I still salivate at some of the new stuff that's coming out.

 

I think this is why "modeller vs collector" debates are a little futile. Sixty years ago, if you wanted a really impressive layout, you had no choice but to make things yourself. These days, there's enough available that if you have the money, even a beginner could put an exhibition-standard layout together.