RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2021 I'm looking for photos and information anyone might have on the diagram 30 and 31 griddle cars. I'm particularly trying to find out what livery the diagram 31 griddle cars would have had when they were first converted. Parkin seems to think that they wouldn't have had maroon livery. But on the other hand the dates i can find for their conversion are July 63 and June 64. I think this is too early for blue/grey livery, it wasn't adopted until 66 i think. So i'm kind of assuming they wore maroon livery at least for a few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 The diagram 31 Griddle cars were introduced in 1966 and there is a photo in one of the photo books (can't think where at the moment) of one in maroon livery and retaining it's heavy duty BR bogies. By 01/01/1969 all were in blue/grey livery and had their original bogies replaced by B5 ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken.W Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) My copy of Parkin's* contains a photo of D.30 Griddle W1101in maroon in June '63. On CW bogies * 1991 Edition p.142 Edited March 7, 2021 by Ken.W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted March 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) According to Longworth, Ashford/Eastleigh build on Commonwealth bogies 2 bays in buffet saloon Diag. 30 - M1100 08/60-12/77 preserved W1101 11/60-04/78 scrapped 10/80 SC1102 12/60-10/80 scrapped 07/83 Doncaster build on BR1 bogies converted from Diag. 16 RF built 1952 3 bays in buffet saloon Diag. 31 - SC1103 06/64-11/79 scrapped 10/80 SC1104 07/63-11/79 preserved SC1105 06/64-11/79 preserved So I guess this livery is ficticious.... Edited April 12, 2022 by Davexoc Photo restored 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 7, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2021 31 minutes ago, Davexoc said: So I guess this livery is ficticious.... Undoubtedly. I guess the Mid-Hants want a uniform rake of stock rather than 100% accuracy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 The one which was in the NRM was maroon and correct. http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1110 Another example of the NRM acting disgracefully towards historic vehicles. That used to be immaculate. https://www.flickr.com/photos/60854097@N06/6755887591 Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Davexoc said: According to Longworth, Ashford/Eastleigh build on Commonwealth bogies 2 bays in buffet saloon Diag. 30 - M1100 08/60-12/77 preserved W1101 11/60-04/78 scrapped 10/80 SC1102 12/60-10/80 scrapped 07/83 Doncaster build on BR1 bogies converted from Diag. 16 RF built 1952 3 bays in buffet saloon Diag. 31 - SC1103 06/64-11/79 scrapped 10/80 SC1104 07/63-11/79 preserved SC1105 06/64-11/79 preserved So I guess this livery is ficticious.... I don't know where Longworth got his Diagram 31 introduction dates but the following is in The May 1966 Railway Observer in the Coaching Stock section: "Conversions: SC1103/4/5 (Griddle RB) formely W301/2/5 (order unknown) rebuilt Wolverton 1966 from RF" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Davexoc said: Doncaster build on BR1 bogies converted from Diag. 16 RF built 1952 3 bays in buffet saloon Diag. 31 - SC1103 06/64-11/79 scrapped 10/80 SC1104 07/63-11/79 preserved SC1105 06/64-11/79 preserved So I guess this livery is ficticious.... I think Longworth may have used the withdrawal and/or storage dates of the RFs. as the rebuild dates, there are a number of photos of the RFs in storage and they look to have been there some time. Butlin had the re-entry dates as 1965 and Harris as 1966. The BR green is prototypically correct for at least 2001 onwards. I saw it on a train at Clapham Junction in this condition. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 8, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2021 12 hours ago, mark54 said: I don't know where Longworth got his Diagram 31 introduction dates but the following is in The May 1966 Railway Observer in the Coaching Stock section: "Conversions: SC1103/4/5 (Griddle RB) formely W301/2/5 (order unknown) rebuilt Wolverton 1966 from RF" Hmm, interesting. I’ve been relying on the Longworth book too. So if they emerged in 66 would they have been maroon or blue/grey, that’s the question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) Blue/Grey was already being applied in 1965, so almost certainly blue/grey if they appeared in 1966. Edited March 11, 2021 by BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) My understanding is the dia 30s were delivered in maroon and the dia 31s in blue-grey. Why anyone would want one is a good question, to which I have no answer. Made from left over bits from converting other Tri-ang coaches. It is now running on Commonwealth bogies. Edited March 8, 2021 by Clive Mortimore 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 07/03/2021 at 18:25, mark54 said: The diagram 31 Griddle cars were introduced in 1966 and there is a photo in one of the photo books (can't think where at the moment) of one in maroon livery and retaining it's heavy duty BR bogies. By 01/01/1969 all were in blue/grey livery and had their original bogies replaced by B5 ones. Robert Carroll (Robertcwp) has come to my rescue for a maroon Diagram 31. The book is On Scottish Lines by Derek Penney - Page 75 at Carmont. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 8, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2021 38 minutes ago, mark54 said: Robert Carroll (Robertcwp) has come to my rescue for a maroon Diagram 31. The book is On Scottish Lines by Derek Penney - Page 75 at Carmont. Hurrah! I love weird and obscure coaches, but must confess to hating blue/grey livery. (Ducks and prepares to be tarred and feathered!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted March 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 07/03/2021 at 21:25, Steamport Southport said: The one which was in the NRM was maroon and correct. http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1110 Another example of the NRM acting disgracefully towards historic vehicles. That used to be immaculate. https://www.flickr.com/photos/60854097@N06/6755887591 Jason I remember when 1100 was restored by NRM, I will check if it’s still at GCR. These Griddle Cars are valuable to heritage lines when restored & operational. Dava 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold astropsidings Posted March 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2021 1105 at Alresford in the condition in which it was delivered to the MHR. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arun Sharma Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Would the griddle cars used on the 25kV class 309 [AM9 as was] also have had propane gas cylinders [in underframe boxes] or would they have relied on electricity for catering? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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