Hornby Announce L&MR 0-4-2 "Lion"?

[PaulRhB]

3 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

there is some dicussion now that it isnt the original Lion, the name plates arent original and from when it was first restored and none of the dimensions fit the original, it is an ex L&M 0-4-2 but (most likely) not Lion

Ultimately you can effectively say that about many ‘famous’ locomotives with the endless boiler vs frames etc debates. It probably did have parts swapped with the other similar locos the MD&HB owned to keep it going and make a good pump boiler at retirement. It seems to have been known as Lion within the workplace folklore when it was extracted but that could be because the guys who installed it just liked the name best. 
It’s Lion because that’s the name it’s carried for over half its existence now and because it survived not what it did in history like Rocket, (which also is significantly different in layout, wheels etc to its glory moment). 
You could argue it’s ‘celebrity’ now has as much to do with the film  

[sir douglas]

since i was quoted before editing i might as well note, i posted after reading the first page and for some reason didnt notice the other 5 pages which the identity theory was already mentioned

[Steamport Southport]

I would take the writings of Dawson with all the salt in Cheshire.

 

Just a revisionist that's trying to make a name for himself. It was well known to be Lion well before it was "discovered".

 

They even named a pub after it. Which is only a few hundred yards away from where it was.

 

 

That pub was always like that. It's not a modern Wetherspoons type of place. Pub next to it is The Railway. Opposite is the remains of Exchange Station.

 

Do people really think generations of locals, dockers and railwaymen were getting it wrong?

 

Not on your Nelly.

 

 

Jason

[Edge]

3 hours ago, didcot said:

The remake of The Ladykillers staring Tom Hanks must go down in history as one of the worst remakes ever!  We gave up after 10 minutes. 

I considered it to be one of the best. Was side splittingly funny without being a shot for shot remake of the original. I like it when remakes respect their source material.

 

takes all sorts to make a world though  

 

for my part, I guessed that Hornby would make ‘Lion’ or ‘Planet’ in the coming year but Rapido was a bit of a surprise. I can’t say that I particularly care which one I get at their stage, with my one idea being that the Hornby one is likely to have compatible couplings for the LMR second class coaches I've bought. That’s about it at the mo. Neither of the companies is spending my money on the project  so they can duplicate till the cows come home as far as I’m concerned  

Edited March 11, 2021 by Edge

[I.C.L. 11]

17 hours ago, Hroth said:

I hope that it gets supplied with an additional set of nameplates , so you can buy 2 locomotives and rename the second "Tiger".

Lion, Tiger and Thunderbolt etched nameplates are all listed in the Thatcher Plates pdf catalogue.

 

However, at risk of spoiling the fun, Tiger probably looked quite different to the Lion we recognise today which owes much of its appearance to various rebuilds most notably when it was restored and tarted up in 1929/30.

[I.C.L. 11]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

The assumption is Rapido are doing Lion.

 

They could be doing a 14xx, coach, wagon, original Bulleid, traction engine and a pearce and crump bus.

 

Two Lions is wasteful

The World Of Railways news story includes something not in rapidoandy's RMweb post, it says "including the locomotive the film is named after". So if true Rapido are at least producing Thunderbolt, among other things.

 

Maybe a collaboration could see Hornby produce Lion and Rapido produce Thunderbolt from the same tooling? Unlikely I know.

Edited March 11, 2021 by I.C.L. 11

[Dunsignalling]

I doubt I'll be purchasing a model of this loco, whatever name is attached. 

 

The loss of my cash may or may not be pivotal to either Hornby's or Rapido's commercial success, but reflects a problem that comes with all duplications. The resources devoted to making two models means that one of the producers is not making something else that might have caused me to spend. 

 

My model railway budget for 2021 is far from being spoken for but, once I've covered what I have on pre-order, and a potential additonal Bachmann Bulleid or two, chances are the surplus will be lost to the model railway trade altogether.

 

John

Edited March 11, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I doubt I'll be purchasing a model of this loco, whatever name is attached. 

 

The loss of my cash may or may not be pivotal to either Hornby's or Rapido's commercial success, but reflects a problem that comes with all duplications. The resources devoted to making two models means that one of the producers is not making something else that might have caused me to spend. 

 

My model railway budget for 2021 is far from being spoken for but, once I've covered what I have on pre-order, and a potential additonal Bachmann Bulleid or two, chances are the surplus will be lost to the model railway trade altogether.

 

John

Similar in my case although the biggie for me is what else might come with the Rapido version  of 'Thunderbolt' - a Bedford OB to Rapido standards  fits into the way Rapido have gone recently and would definitely lead to me mining into the piggy bank.

[PhilJ W]

The GWR machinery wagon would be nice as well. But I'm hoping for the W&U coach.

[Edwardian]

I think it's pretty clear that we are going to see a Thunderbolt, and a likelihood of other good things.  Well done Rapido. It will surely be a quality job and worth the wait.

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I think it's pretty clear that we are going to see a Thunderbolt, and a likelihood of other good things.  Well done Rapido. It will surely be a quality job and worth the wait.

 

There you go, that's what happens when manufacturers duplicate; I post in the wrong topic

 

{long day ...)

[Coach bogie]

As posted elsewhere, I have already made 'Thunderbolt' but I grew up with Lion on the mainline. My dad and I chased it from Southport to Bold colliery including running under the wires of the WCML.

 

My fondest memories are Lion working around Manchester, through Guide Bridge, past all the class 76 Woodhead electrics on its way to Dinting, and then footplate rides at Dinting.

 

If I am going for an indulgence purchase, which is what it will be, then Hornby will win. As much as I like the Titfield Thunderbolt. Below is how I really remember Lion. (Wigan WCML on Southport - Bold move)

 

Mr Kohler - please include the tail lamp to hang on the rear coupling hook!

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Monkey28]

On 12/03/2021 at 07:55, Coach bogie said:

As posted elsewhere, I have already made 'Thunderbolt' but I grew up with Lion on the mainline. My dad and I chased it from Southport to Bold colliery including running under the wires of the WCML.

 

My fondest memories are Lion working around Manchester, through Guide Bridge, past all the class 76 Woodhead electrics on its way to Dinting, and then footplate rides at Dinting.

 

If I am going for an indulgence purchase, which is what it will be, then Hornby will win. As much as I like the Titfield Thunderbolt. Below is how I really remember Lion. (Wigan WCML on Southport - Bold move)

 

Mr Kohler - please include the tail lamp to hang on the rear coupling hook!

 

Mike Wiltshire

 I bet that wouldn’t be allowed on the mainline these days .H&S would have a fit .what year was the photo taken?

[Coppercap]

31 minutes ago, Monkey28 said:

 I bet that wouldn’t be allowed on the mainline these days .H&S would have a fit .what year was the photo taken?

I would have thought it's 1980 - the year of 'Rail 150'.

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Monkey28 said:

 I bet that wouldn’t be allowed on the mainline these days .H&S would have a fit .what year was the photo taken?

Several years after the H&S Act passed into law is the answer to your final question.   So why wouldn't it be allowed?  As it happened certain things in that photo were obviously at that time not in line with Group Standards - just as they wouldn't be with the equivalent Standards today.  All it would need is a full risk assessment, identification and implementation of whatever mitigations might be needed to make it ALARP and you could do it.  The $64,000 question is whether anybody would want to do it or could affiord the cost of doing it.

Edited March 14, 2021 by The Stationmaster

[nightstar.train]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Several years after the H&S Act passed into law is the answer to your final question.   So why wouldn't it be allowed?  As it happened certain things in that photo were obviously at that time not in line with Group Standards - just as they wouldn't be with the equivalent Standards today.  All it would need is a full risk assessment, identification and implementation of whatever mitigations might be needed to make it ALARP and you could do it.  The $64,000 question is whether anybody would want to do it or could affiord the cost of doing it.

Presumably a move like that nowadays would require a full line possession so there’s no chance of a modern train hitting it. Those coaches would disintegrate in a crash. 

[I.C.L. 11]

There has been some talk of constructing a working replica Lion but I somehow don't think mainline registration is on the cards. In Germany the Adler replica and it's train have operated on the mainline regularly as seen on flickr here.

 

Legend has it that during the mainline runs of c1980 Lion was authorised to run under it's own power due to incompatible coupling and braking arrangements (the consist had a simple air brake using lorry components for emergency use). Just like the Hornby Rocket really...

 

Some inspiration for adding a footplate crew: 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

Presumably a move like that nowadays would require a full line possession so there’s no chance of a modern train hitting it. Those coaches would disintegrate in a crash. 

So you wouldn't be happy with a bloke on  horseback riding behind it with a red flag to warn any following trains?

 

Shouldn't there have been a Guard sitting on the little seat at the back of that yellow first class coach?

Top hat & tails should still meet modern safety standards as long as they are day-glo orange.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Michael Hodgson

[Harlequin]

Simon Kohler’s explanation of the Lion announcement in this weekend’s virtual exhibition was excruciating to watch!

I will say nothing more.

 

 

[Butler Henderson]

Er...Um... Well... Er... (presume the bit "hang on why have a got a lie detector strapped to me" was edited out?)

Edited March 14, 2021 by Butler Henderson

[bigd]

I wonder if they will later do the 2-2–2 Patentee locomotive?

I think they are very similar.

If not, then I may have to do some modelling.

[Legend]

Well he did say it’s the start of a series . Que Victorian frothing 

[woodenhead]

5 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Simon Kohler’s explanation of the Lion announcement in this weekend’s virtual exhibition was excruciating to watch!

I will say nothing more.

 

It was a bit, but you cannot fault Hornby's agressive tactics and not take anything lying down.

[Edwardian]

6 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Simon Kohler’s explanation of the Lion announcement in this weekend’s virtual exhibition was excruciating to watch!

I will say nothing more.

 

 

 

I will.

 

The Frost-Nixon interview came to mind.

 

What you have to ask yourself, after watching the interview, is would you buy a second-hand car from him?

 

EDIT: Nixon, I mean, obviously 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

Well he did say it’s the start of a series . Que Victorian frothing 

 

At one point I recall he said that he didn't remember what else was in the series, which I rather took to mean 'I don't know what else might be in the series, because other manufacturers haven't announced them yet'