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Hornby Announce L&MR 0-4-2 "Lion"?


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Hornby are a well known international seller of model trains, people follow Hornby and will simply collect their models, Rapido are less well known outside of the model railway enthusiast market - each will target their own market, what Hornby lose to Rapido they will simply sell to their wider customer base and still make the desired return on investment.

 

This is not two companies making a standard class 4 to a limited UK customer base, but collectible items across the globe.  It probably does not matter who is first or whether or not Hornby manage a DCC sound offering for their loco.

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OTOH, the customers that Studiocanal/Rapido will be primarily marketing to, the film buffs, will be much less aware of the existence of the Hornby Lion and, even if they are aware of it, may not connect Lion with Thunderbolt in the way we do.  Hornby may well be kicking themselves for being late doors with Studiocanal, but you can't expect to win 'em all; this is all part of the fun of competitive market led enterprise capitalism red in toof an' clore and I'm glad I'm only involved at the customer end.  My role is simple enough for even me to understand and fulfill efficiently; bright shiny new thing make it all better, please relieve me of this burdensome money and give it to your investors, who clearly need and deserve it more than I do.

 

And it's working; I am thinking about a minimum space Liverpool and Manchester layout portable enough to take up the pub with me in a pool cue case.

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On 05/04/2021 at 12:27, wainwright1 said:

 

Bachmann produced the salt van and mounted in on the totally inappropriate modern roller bearing chassis from the china clay wagons. Because it was the right length ?

My weathered ICI doesn't have a roller bearing chassis.

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7 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

The alternative explanation is that there really isn't anything to show  at the moment.

 

Yep, the current ground state!

 

If they get a move on, there's no point in revealing anything until they've got something physical to show, and that will be some months down the line.

 

Of course, what should be done next are "prototypical" track and points, and perhaps a nice resin model of the Rainhill skew bridge.

Edited by Hroth
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14 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Of course, what should be done next are "prototypical" track and points, and perhaps a nice resin model of the Rainhill skew bridge.

Prototypical track from a firm that made the stuff they sold in the 1950s and 1960s! That will be a couple of decades away and then only if Peco announce it first. 

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Triang series 3 might not be the worst track for this, and there is usually plenty about on Bay and in bargain bins at secondhand shops and such.  Plasticard shims on the check rails in the flangeways and Robert is your Father's (or Mother's, or both in Norfolk) brother. 

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10 hours ago, Chris116 said:

Prototypical track from a firm that made the stuff they sold in the 1950s and 1960s! That will be a couple of decades away and then only if Peco announce it first. 

 

I was trying not to mention the "P" word.  Anyhow, Peco must have a tremendous backlog of current stuff to manufacture after their Covid shutdown!

 

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Triang series 3 might not be the worst track for this, and there is usually plenty about on Bay and in bargain bins at secondhand shops and such.  Plasticard shims on the check rails in the flangeways and Robert is your Father's (or Mother's, or both in Norfolk) brother. 

 

I've still a fair amount...   Suprisingly robust too, apart from the little tongues that are supposed to lock the sections together.

 

Quote

and Robert is your Father's (or Mother's, or both in Norfolk) brother. 

 

Surely that would be Bjorn Stronginthearm ?

 

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14 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

This much is true:

 

"Since 1920, Hornby has inspired a cult-like following" 

 

 

People wearing strange clothing, performing weird rites to their venerated objects.

 

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9 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

People wearing strange clothing, performing weird rites to their venerated objects.

 

 

The Unelucidated Brethren of the Red Box?

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13 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

People wearing strange clothing, performing weird rites to their venerated objects.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

The Unelucidated Brethren of the Red Box?

Nobody expects the Hornby Inquisition.

Our three weapons are fear, surprise, a ruthless marketing manager and a fanatical devotion to claiming older Airfix and Dapol models as our own staple products.  No, four weapons......

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9 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

The Unelucidated Brethren of the Red Box?

 

The box sleeve sticks something wicked!

 

Anyhow, you know you like your little Peckett...

 

 

Edited by Hroth
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9 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

 

Anyhow, you know you like your little Peckett...

 

 

 

I do, I love everything about them;  the choice of a pre-Grouping prototype, the satisfying weight, the faultless running and the very charismatic looks, beautifully captured by Hornby.

 

Oh, and the fact that no one else had announced a model of it already. 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
spelling!
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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Anyhow, you know you like your little Peckett...

 

 

You know I was thinking the other night, "What have Hornby ever done for us?" (to use another Monty Python reference :wink_mini:).

 

And the first thing that came to mind was the Pecketts. You could almost forgive Hornby anything for these cute little jewels!

 

Edited by Harlequin
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22 hours ago, Hroth said:

Where Hornby is concerned, there's no point in showing CADs or 3d visualisations. We may catch a glimpse of an engineering prototype in the background of a shot of something else in an Engine Shed later in the year, but I don't expect to see anything properly until a painted sample is available.

 

There's no point in showing sensitive data at the present!

 

Hornby were extremely quick off the mark to show something when Hattons announced their 'King' and they had nothing more than drawings etc to show that time round.   True they didn't bother when Dapol announced their prairie and they took no notice of DJM announcing their Q6 but then equally in both of those examples they didn't come out with a hurried statement saying we're making one of these.

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15 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

You know I was thinking the other night, "What have Hornby ever done for us?" (to use another Monty Python reference :wink_mini:).

 

And the first thing that came up was the Pecketts. You could almost forgive Hornby anything for these cute little jewels!

 

Not forgetting the Rustons.

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Fascinating stuff .

 

There is no doubt Hornby has dropped the ball and has failed to secure marketing rights to the Titfield Thunderbolt from StudioCanal . I'm not sure that's that significant though . Sales of Lion will probably be good anyway. It might have been the cream on the cake . 

 

I wonder if we overstate the importance of the Titfield Thunderbolt for most of the general public and even railway enthusiasts ,unless they are of a certain age. It really is quite an obscure film to most   . I must be one of the few on here that's really was not enamored with the film . Its OK ,I dont dislike it ,  a nice slice of 50s Britain , but its really pretty predictable and not that humorous . From memory, I haven't seen it in years, I think it actually portrays railway enthusiasts as  obsessive and a bit crackers . Really the only reason its popular on here is because its got trains in it .  To that effect if looking at Ealing Comedies The Ladykillers is better and there is a more obscure one called the Bridal March which has a shot of a Caley tank on a Ballachulish train on the banks of Loch Linnhe . A truly stunning line . Now if Rapido were going to do a Caley 0-4-4T I'd be excited .  So I'm not sure "The Titfield Effect" will be that significant .

 

If we then look at the manufacturers , then Hornby is much more widespread and will probably sell Lion in a much larger market, maybe even international as its got the "cute" factor . I suspect it will be more reasonably priced  and a lot of their clientele will be seduced , as I was with Rocket , and buy the nice wee model for the sake of it .  Rapido market much more niche . Very few people will have heard of them or the Titfeld Thunderbolt, so I would expect quantities to be much lower and probably a lot more expensive , because Rapido are in the highdetail/high cost end of the market .

 

So its horses for courses , and I don't necesserily see them in competition , I suspect the cost  difference will be significant . 

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That depends on the 'Hype' that the 70th anniversary of the films release receives. If Studiocanal intend to 'push' the anniversary of the film it will affect sales of models and other ephemera associated with the film.

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Posted (edited)
On 07/04/2021 at 10:21, Legend said:

Fascinating stuff .

 

There is no doubt Hornby has dropped the ball and has failed to secure marketing rights to the Titfield Thunderbolt from StudioCanal . I'm not sure that's that significant though . Sales of Lion will probably be good anyway. It might have been the cream on the cake . 

 

I wonder if we overstate the importance of the Titfield Thunderbolt for most of the general public and even railway enthusiasts ,unless they are of a certain age. It really is quite an obscure film to most   . I must be one of the few on here that's really was not enamored with the film . Its OK ,I dont dislike it ,  a nice slice of 50s Britain , but its really pretty predictable and not that humorous . From memory, I haven't seen it in years, I think it actually portrays railway enthusiasts as  obsessive and a bit crackers . Really the only reason its popular on here is because its got trains in it .  To that effect if looking at Ealing Comedies The Ladykillers is better and there is a more obscure one called the Bridal March which has a shot of a Caley tank on a Ballachulish train on the banks of Loch Linnhe . A truly stunning line . Now if Rapido were going to do a Caley 0-4-4T I'd be excited .  So I'm not sure "The Titfield Effect" will be that significant .

 

If we then look at the manufacturers , then Hornby is much more widespread and will probably sell Lion in a much larger market, maybe even international as its got the "cute" factor . I suspect it will be more reasonably priced  and a lot of their clientele will be seduced , as I was with Rocket , and buy the nice wee model for the sake of it .  Rapido market much more niche . Very few people will have heard of them or the Titfeld Thunderbolt, so I would expect quantities to be much lower and probably a lot more expensive , because Rapido are in the highdetail/high cost end of the market .

 

So its horses for courses , and I don't necesserily see them in competition , I suspect the cost  difference will be significant . 

Interesting comments there as it never was as popular as other Ealing comedies - probably because it didn't strike a chord with the wider public in a way that 'Passport To Pimlico' did  or the sheer devilry of 'The Ladykillers'.  But - like (Mr) Punch frequently did at one time it took a poke at the clergy and the obsession some of them had with railways and it took a poke at officialdom and even trade unions and even nationalisation in an era when both were a target many folk appreciated.  it also told a story of a changing way of country life which no doubt meant absolutely nothing to the townies who were most likely to see the film.  And it does have some good comedic touches plus the fight with 'the evil road operators'.

 

So it has some charms and humour of its own and it certainly seems to be acceptable enough to contemporary audiences to be shown on tv (it was shown at least twice last year, possibly three times).  And it will no doubt appear again in the future when we get a season of Ealing or John Gregson films.  and that of course is a potential commercial factor in the mix - tv exposure which brings in an audience which is most likely to be the grey £ sort of audience who could well be tempted by the right sort of marketing.  Yes, it undoubtedly is 'an enthusiast's film' but enthusiasts are also potential customers for a themed product - and that is a market which Hornby also apparently considered to be worth their while otherwise they wouldn't have gone looking for a licence.

Edited by The Stationmaster
Correct typos
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25 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

That depends on the 'Hype' that the 70th anniversary of the films release receives. If Studiocanal intend to 'push' the anniversary of the film it will affect sales of models and other ephemera associated with the film.

 

I'll watch out for that and try not to get over excited . As Mike the Stationmaster says, the film was on at least 2 or 3 times last year, its difficult to see how much more "hype " there can be .  I haven't seen the film in years , but  I have seen Sink the Bismarck several times as it seems to be on every two weeks at the moment (thank goodness for Kenneth More , he really won the war for us).  Curiously I haven't found the need to dash out and buy models of the Bismarck or HMS Hood even though they are in the Airfix range . 

 

I really think the importance of the Titfield Thunderbolt is massively over egged.   Lion will be a success in its own right 

Edited by Legend
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1 hour ago, Legend said:

Fascinating stuff .

 

There is no doubt Hornby has dropped the ball and has failed to secure marketing rights to the Titfield Thunderbolt from StudioCanal . I'm not sure that's that significant though . Sales of Lion will probably be good anyway. It might have been the cream on the cake . 

 

It's hard to imagine Studio Canal turning down Hornby. There's even a chance it might have heard of Hornby.

 

He who hesitates ....

 

....  has someone else's announcements to duplicate. 

 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

I wonder if we overstate the importance of the Titfield Thunderbolt for most of the general public and even railway enthusiasts ,unless they are of a certain age. It really is quite an obscure film to most   . I must be one of the few on here that's really was not enamored with the film . Its OK ,I dont dislike it ,  a nice slice of 50s Britain , but its really pretty predictable and not that humorous .

 

 

I saw this as a child. A very young, maudlin, perhaps 'sickly', sentimental child,  Sitting there, in my tweed knickerbockers and Eton collar, looking forward to brutal schooling and the chance to die an heroic death for Empire (if the scarlet fever didn't get me first).  I was, nevertheless, a devoted acolyte of that other notable railway cult, God's Wonderful Railway. So divine was this railway, that its locomotives had souls. Indeed, it may be that only in Heaven I shall hear that Swindon exhaust beat again.  

 

As a consequence, I took to immoderate and inconsolable weeping when the 14XX crashed. I saw the rest of the film through a haze of tears, and remember very little. 

 

So, partly due to mental scarring and partly due to a fear that, as an adult, I might simply find the film disappointing, I have found myself strangely reluctant to seek it out and watch it.    

 

 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

From memory, I haven't seen it in years, I think it actually portrays railway enthusiasts as  obsessive and a bit crackers .

 

 

Prototype fidelity

 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

Really the only reason its popular on here is because its got trains in it . 

 

 

Yes, and many films with trains in them are indifferent at best. Or the trains are ludicrously inaccurate. Or both.

 

I endured Arthur Askey's performance in the 1940 film of the Ghost Train for the sake of the GW carriage shots. I'm not sure I could bear it a second time.  

 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

To that effect if looking at Ealing Comedies The Ladykillers is better and

 

 

That is a great film. Someone told me there was a remake. Some films come out perfect first time and do not need a remake.

 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

there is a more obscure one called the Bridal March which has a shot of a Caley tank on a Ballachulish train on the banks of Loch Linnhe . A truly stunning line . Now if Rapido were going to do a Caley 0-4-4T I'd be excited .  So I'm not sure "The Titfield Effect" will be that significant .

 

You fascinate me strangely, I shall look it up

 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

If we then look at the manufacturers , then Hornby is much more widespread and will probably sell Lion in a much larger market, maybe even international as its got the "cute" factor . I suspect it will be more reasonably priced  and a lot of their clientele will be seduced , as I was with Rocket , and buy the nice wee model for the sake of it .  Rapido market much more niche . Very few people will have heard of them or the Titfeld Thunderbolt, so I would expect quantities to be much lower and probably a lot more expensive , because Rapido are in the highdetail/high cost end of the market .

 

So its horses for courses , and I don't necesserily see them in competition , I suspect the cost  difference will be significant . 

 

Hornby sell things by putting them in a red box that says 'Hornby' on it.

 

Others don't have that luxury. 

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To remake or not to remake? Simple:

 

If the original is good enough to be remembered without mockery, there's no need of one. I call it "The Italian Job Principle".

 

John

 

 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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