luke_stevens Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Just now, EdChap said: Hornby have clearly been working on this for some time. ?!? How so? No CADs, no EP, no indication that anything more than an announcement has been made... Luke 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmdon Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, EdChap said: Wow, the sound of toys being thrown out of prams is astonishing. Hornby have clearly been working on this for some time. It’s a personal thing, involving straws and camel’s backs. I’m not suggesting everyone needs to do the same. For me, regardless of how long they’ve been working on it, it’s happening too often. 4 6 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, EdChap said: Wow, the sound of toys being thrown out of prams is astonishing. Hornby have clearly been working on this for some time. Long enough to let someone else get the rights to Thunderbolt? Sounds like they haven't been at it that long 2 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2021 I'd still rather have a Planet. 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Nile said: I'd still rather have a Planet. Agree, more suitable for my new layout project "Club 1830" 3 2 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2021 There's scope for the smaller suppliers to indulge in a bit of gamesmanship too and wrong-foot Hornby to everyone's benefit. Announce, say a Holmes Class M*, wait for Hornby to commit to it, then reveal the Dunalastair you'd been working on all along. *In my fantasy world, the RTR manufacturers are fixated on c. 1902... 14 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Harlequin said: Hornby are developing a rather unpleasant reputation for themselves by repeatedly attempting to gazump other mfrs product releases. We all understand Hornby is a profit seeking business but I agree my opinion of Hornby is becoming a little tainted with these increasing occurrences. Edit: now if someone could just let slip to Hornby that a LBSCR D1 is being planned that'd be great Edited March 9, 2021 by GreenGiraffe22 7 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Another duplicate war! My choice will be for Lion compatible with the Hornby Rocket coaches I have, so I guess where my money will go. Perso - I'm not keen on replicating movies perso, though I did get Hornbys TTS edition of Hogwarts Castle which can at least pass for preservation guise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 On the basis of a large proportion of Rockets if you want as a showcase ornament then a Hornby one will do, if you want one that might just run more than once then maybe the Rapdio one will be the better choice. 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 47 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: There's scope for the smaller suppliers to indulge in a bit of gamesmanship too and wrong-foot Hornby to everyone's benefit. Announce, say a Holmes Class M*, wait for Hornby to commit to it, then reveal the Dunalastair you'd been working on all along. *In my fantasy world, the RTR manufacturers are fixated on c. 1902... Don't say any more, or Kohler will get wind of Heljan's forthcoming Crampton ... oh. wait ... damn! 2 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 There is a heck of a lot of duplication at the moment: Hornby/Hattons 4 wheelers. Hornby/Dapol GWR Large Pararie Dapol/Accurascale Manor Hornby/Dapol Terrier and now Rapido/Hornby Lion. Take your pick of four models we could have had instead. It could have read something like this (going with broadly substitutable or similar regions or eras) A.N. other range of small coaches or wagons A new 57xx (to modern standards) GWR Saint Maunsell Q Class a Coppernob Rather a waste of development efforts and splitting the market Does this mean we are scraping the barrel in terms of viable prototypes to produce? I'd like a model of Lion, but if both go ahead I will be holding off until I can judge which is the better model... 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: Does this mean we are scraping the barrel in terms of viable prototypes to produce? By no means. Still waiting for those Scottish 4-4-0s... 3 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: We all understand Hornby is a profit seeking business but I agree my opinion of Hornby is becoming a little tainted with these increasing occurrences. In a truly free market, competition results in monopoly. 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: There is a heck of a lot of duplication at the moment: Hornby/Hattons 4 wheelers. Hornby/Dapol GWR Large Pararie Dapol/Accurascale Manor Hornby/Dapol Terrier and now Rapido/Hornby Lion. Take your pick of four models we could have had instead. It could have read something like this (going with broadly substitutable or similar regions or eras) A.N. other range of small coaches or wagons A new 57xx (to modern standards) GWR Saint Maunsell Q Class a Coppernob Rather a waste of development efforts and splitting the market Does this mean we are scraping the barrel in terms of viable prototypes to produce? I'd like a model of Lion, but if both go ahead I will be holding off until I can judge which is the better model... And 3 different manufacturers doing all new class 25s, two on all new class 45s.... The generic 4/6 wheelers, I can swallow as both types are quite different. But the rest is surprising. The real problem is that all this duplication comes at the same time as many all new items of locos not done before. My choice of spending tends to go there first (though I do have 6 of the new terriers, 3 from each). Edited March 9, 2021 by JSpencer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 And, most noteworthy to me, a duplication of a steam locomotive that didn't make it into 'holy' BR livery, thus "limiting the tooling potential blah blah blah" who'd have thunk it? 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) Ever since Hornby did Rocket there has been a lot of speculation about Lion as a follow up. If Rapido thought they could get in and grab the subject via a film licencing deal ahead of Hornby that was an obvious commercial risk they took. We have no idea of the terms of the deal but the licence was surely a fraction of the cost of the Hogwarts and Thomas licences Rails decided to do a follow-up coach for Rocket, only to find Hornby were doing bit themselves - that was Rails trying to piggy-back on a Hornby product and getting burnt. It is perhaps worth pointing out that there were other things in Titfield Thunderbolt, and we don't currently have a 14xx to modern standards, the DJM/Hattons model being generally regarded as a bit of a mis-fire. A 14xx for general release could be an excellent product for Rapido and could be expected to shift a lot more units than Lion. Rapido have a good name, so it should be worth looking out for. The Wisbech & Upwell coach also has wider potential It's difficult to draw a line between Hornby aggressively defending their percieved turf and a widespread perception of the Hornby range as a juicy joint from which everyone else is entitled to carve themselves a nice slice The trigger here is quite clearly that Hornby have tried to get a licence for Titfield Thunderbolt , only to be rebuffed and told "we're already licencing someone else". They would only have approached the rights-holders for licencing once Margate were already planning Lion Edited March 9, 2021 by Ravenser licencing 5 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Helmdon said: Although as you note, no one else can do Lion as Thunderbolt, and only one manufacturer will be able to do nice 1950s poster art Titfield Thunderbolt packaging (which, ironically, Hornby have done before). as someone who will be buying entirely because of the film this pushes me in Rapido’s direction, and also leaves a nasty taste. I’m not going to say I’ll never buy Hornby again as that’s cutting off the nose to spite the face, but immediately before writing this I did leave an instruction on my dealing platform to sell all my Hornby shares. As a shareholder (albeit a very minor one) this is me done. I'm pretty sure that the film will be out of copyright by 2023. Seventy years isn't it? And that was only raised from 50 not long ago due to complaints from people who are still alive. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmdon Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: I'm pretty sure that the film will be out of copyright by 2023. Seventy years isn't it? And that was only raised from 50 not long ago due to complaints from people who are still alive. Jason No - common misconception: UK copyright law: Films are protected for 70 years following the death of the last of the following persons: the principal director; the author of the screenplay; the author of the dialogue or the composer of original music commissioned for or used in the film. the Titfield Thunderbolt’s director, slightly unbelievably, died in 1999. Edited March 9, 2021 by Helmdon 4 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Must of changed it subsequently then as I do know that certain programmes which the BBC owned had come into public domain. The first episodes of Doctor Who definitely did at the time of the anniversary. There was a lot of kerfuffle at the time when the BBC was trying to get around it by claiming that "remastered" copies should be classed as new content so they could keep the rights for an extra 50 years from that date. One of the reasons a lot of the "classic movie" channels on Freeview exist is virtually all the content is out of copyright. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmdon Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Must of changed it subsequently then as I do know that certain programmes which the BBC owned had come into public domain. The first episodes of Doctor Who definitely did at the time of the anniversary. There was a lot of kerfuffle at the time when the BBC was trying to get around it by claiming that "remastered" copies should be classed as new content so they could keep the rights for an extra 50 years from that date. One of the reasons a lot of the "classic movie" channels on Freeview exist is virtually all the content is out of copyright. Jason Broadcast (I.e. tv) is 50 from date of broadcast- film is 70 from date of death as above, which is in line with authors. I’m not sure it has changed actually, more that film is rated as ‘higher art’ than tv in law. Edited March 9, 2021 by Helmdon 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Think as well as fitting the same couplings as Rocket, Hornby could also fit a nem socket for those that might go use it in the preservation era! Or is that to simple a solution. Hope you are reading this Hornby! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, johnd said: Think as well as fitting the same couplings as Rocket, Hornby could also fit a nem socket for those that might go use it in the preservation era! Or is that to simple a solution. Hope you are reading this Hornby! The only thing it's ever hauled in preservation is the L&M coaches. Usually only the third class one as they never normally allowed the First to leave Liverpool Museum when it was let out during the two spells in the 1980s. Now hidden from view in a lock up on the Dock Road at Juniper Street along with Cecil Raikes and the MD&HB Avonside 0-6-0ST. Jason Edited March 9, 2021 by Steamport Southport 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2021 If anyone does produce the Wisbech and Upwell coach are they going to produce it as built or as it is now preserved? As built the coaches had special bogies and small wheels as they were boarded at ground level (except at Wisbech where there was special low platforms). As preserved the coach has larger bogies and wheels to allow access from normal platforms. I suspect manufacturers will go for the latter especially if fitting NEM pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 4 hours ago, G-BOAF said: There is a heck of a lot of duplication at the moment: Hornby/Hattons 4 wheelers. Hornby/Dapol GWR Large Pararie Dapol/Accurascale Manor Hornby/Dapol Terrier and now Rapido/Hornby Lion. Take your pick of four models we could have had instead. It could have read something like this (going with broadly substitutable or similar regions or eras) A.N. other range of small coaches or wagons A new 57xx (to modern standards) GWR Saint Maunsell Q Class a Coppernob Rather a waste of development efforts and splitting the market Does this mean we are scraping the barrel in terms of viable prototypes to produce? I'd like a model of Lion, but if both go ahead I will be holding off until I can judge which is the better model... That is a vividly concrete way of putting it. I’d like to see all the items listed (some more than others, of course) and I wouldn’t strain my brain much in listing another five. For example: K4 Turbomotive SR D1, E1 or L1 SR U Standard 3 2-6-0 There are so many classes of steam locomotives that the pool is inexhaustible for practical purposes. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2021 6 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: We all understand Hornby is a profit seeking business but I agree my opinion of Hornby is becoming a little tainted with these increasing occurrences. Edit: now if someone could just let slip to Hornby that a LBSCR D1 is being planned that'd be great A great choice... a decent 0-4-2 that isnt a 14xx, an LBSC type to compete against the Model Rail E1, Bachmann E4 and moves on from the historical Hornby E2... a bigger “Terrier” and a lot more Surrey village names on a pretty tank livery. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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