Steel or Nickel Silver Rail

[animotion]

Although steel looks more prototypical I have heard that you have to be careful using steel rail based on where you locate your layout. If for some reason the location you have chosen has damp issues will that rust the track and how does the conductivity of steel track compare with nickel silver track . Any advice would be helpful.

Thomas.

[Mark Forrest]

I prefer to use steel rail, I'm not overly concerned about rust due to damp as I avoid leaving my layout in damp conditions. 

 

Main benefit is that it seems to require less track cleaning than nickel silver, this seems to be particularly apparent if using wheels with steel tyres. Plus it looks like steel (because it is).

 

Downsides; filing crossing vees might take a few more passes with a file and soldering can be more difficult (using the right flux is the key).  Can get a bit of rust after soldering if flux isn't cleaned away thoroughly. 

 

[melmerby]

Steel is a slightly better conductor than Nickel Silver but not by much (about 30% better)

Brass which you used to be able to get with Peco track is about 6x better.

Stainless Steel is about 4x worse than ordinary steel.

 

IIRC steel wheel against Steel rail gives better adhesion, than nickel silver rail.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by melmerby

[animotion]

The EM gauge society sell steel rail and I assume that it is stainless steel. I know DCC Concepts rail is stainless steel but is more expensive. I am waiting to hear from the trade officer at the EM Gauge Society to find out about their steel rail.

[Mark Forrest]

4 minutes ago, animotion said:

The EM gauge society sell steel rail and I assume that it is stainless steel. I know DCC Concepts rail is stainless steel but is more expensive. I am waiting to hear from the trade officer at the EM Gauge Society to find out about their steel rail.

The steel rail that S4 Soc sell is mild steel, I'd assume that the stuff from EMGS is the same.

[Stephen Freeman]

only DCC Concepts sell Stainless Steel rail, how about Hi.Ni Nickel Silver rail from either C&L or Phoenix Precision Paints (Permaway)?

[animotion]

3 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said:

The steel rail that S4 Soc sell is mild steel, I'd assume that the stuff from EMGS is the same.

Mild steel does not seem like a good choice for rail as this will rust given the right conditions.

[Mark Forrest]

9 minutes ago, animotion said:

Mild steel does not seem like a good choice for rail as this will rust given the right conditions.

I look at it slightly differently; locations which are damp enough to cause steel rail to rust wouldn't be my first choice of places to build a model railway.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, animotion said:

Although steel looks more prototypical

 

The only place you should see steel colour is the point of wheel contact, the rest will be rusty, dirty, oily etc.

[kipford]

EMGS Rail is mild steel. Having used it on a club layout I prefer nickel silver there are a lot less problems involved. Once painted you can hardly tell the difference between NS and Steel rail anyway. I have not had any issues with track cleaning on NS. Quick wipe over before a show and then do not normally touch it. Also never need to clean the loco wheels. But we are running DCC.

Photo of Brighton's track, I am not sure you can easily tell in this shot what the base metal is

[Pete the Elaner]

Steel (iron) rusting is an ionic reaction with oxygen in the air. It does not need dampness. Electrons flowing will do the trick & they flow from the surface to & from wheels a lot.

Nickel silver is used because it oxides less readily, which is why it is also used to make coins.

This raises another question: 5,10,20 & 50p coins are silver in colour, not gold. If these can be made from a silver coloured alloy, why is track gold coloured? If coin NS is too expensive, surely another alloy of it is silver & affordable?

[Stephen Freeman]

Does steel rail look like full-size steel rail? Not to me, DCC Concepts rail has a more convincing look to the running surface. It does of course have its downsides. I think that the ordinary steel rail has a grey tinge to, no doubt due to the inclusion of lead in the mix. The lead makes it easier to pass through the dies and also softer. Have you noticed that 5p and 10p coins (not sure about the others) are magnetic?

[Re6/6]

Our experience of stainless rail was not very good. A quantity was purchased at some expense to fit on the length of the viaduct on Balcombe so as to avoid cleaning. Apart from the difficulty in soldering the stuff using the recommended flux (which could have been down to my inexperience in soldering stainless!) it was very 'soft' inasmuch as once bent it was impossible ever to straighten it again.

 

I have several packs stored probably never to be used again!

[melmerby]

18 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Steel (iron) rusting is an ionic reaction with oxygen in the air. It does not need dampness. Electrons flowing will do the trick & they flow from the surface to & from wheels a lot.

Nickel silver is used because it oxides less readily, which is why it is also used to make coins.

This raises another question: 5,10,20 & 50p coins are silver in colour, not gold. If these can be made from a silver coloured alloy, why is track gold coloured? If coin NS is too expensive, surely another alloy of it is silver & affordable?

Coins: 5p & 10p are nickel plated steel, 20p & 50p are cupronickel (mostly copper with a minority nickel content), both types are cheaper than nickel silver.

 

Where is this "gold" coloured track?

I have a length of nickel silver track in front of me and it is silver colour, definitely not gold.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

For all the reasons so far stated HiNi is probably the best compromise.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

 

Where is this "gold" coloured track?

I have a length of nickel silver track in front of me and it is silver colour, definitely not gold.

 

 

If Peco NS looks silver to you, then you must be colour blind.

[Mark Forrest]

At the end of the day, as with the question of scale/gauge, there is no right or wrong answer, we all accept different compromises in pursuit of what works for us.

 

In defence of my earlier comment about steel rail requiring less track cleaning here's the result of a little experiment.  The scenic section of my layout has steel rail, but the fiddle yard has nickel silver.   The track has not been cleaned since its last exhibition which is now approaching two years ago.  Since then it has seen occasional use at home.

I took some paper and rubbed it along the track, here's the result, nickel silver at the top, steel below it.

 

I first noticed this difference at an exhibition when, part way through the first day of the show locos began to stutter when entering the fiddle yard.

 

Regarding rusting/oxidation of steel rail, there is no (visible) sign of this on the running surface of the rail.

 

Like I say, I'm not looking to get embroiled in a steel Vs nickel silver battle, just thought I'd share my experience and the reason for my choice of using mild steel rail.

[melmerby]

58 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

If Peco NS looks silver to you, then you must be colour blind.

If Peco NS rail looks gold to you. You must be colour blind.

It's much closer to the colour of proper silver metal than gold and less yellowy than a nickel silver spoon I have.

I actually put a piece of 9ct gold alongside which isn't a particularly yellow gold and that definitely is more yellow than Peco track colour.

[Pete the Elaner]

43 minutes ago, melmerby said:

If Peco NS rail looks gold to you. You must be colour blind.

It's much closer to the colour of proper silver metal than gold and less yellowy than a nickel silver spoon I have.

I actually put a piece of 9ct gold alongside which isn't a particularly yellow gold and that definitely is more yellow than Peco track colour.

 

Are you for real or just trying to wind me up?

 

Peco NS rail is far closer in colour to gold than silver..or mild steel. If I was trying to match the colour with paint, 2 parts gold to 1 part silver should be pretty close. Definitely more gold than silver though.

The point is that is a poor representation of mild steel.

 

[melmerby]

I am not trying to wind you up and no I am not colour blind.

 

 

 

 

[RobinofLoxley]

If I dare to step in and referee this topic, once I had got over the idea it could be a discussion item, I would like to report that I have nickel silver track up to 25 years old and its quite yellow in colour. Thats the top of the rail where its been scrubbed with a track rubber - on track thatold the sides are authentically brown. That can be Hornby or Peco brand. There again, I have some Hornby branded track made in China, which i would describe as being like Aluminium. Modern Peco is somewhat  lighter than the old stuff while having stilla hint of yellow in it. The Hornby Chinese stuff doesnt brown the way the old track did, it develops rust spots.

 

Dare i say it 4/5 different compositions here so you could both be right. Call it a draw lads

[melmerby]

9 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

If I dare to step in and referee this topic, once I had got over the idea it could be a discussion item, I would like to report that I have nickel silver track up to 25 years old and its quite yellow in colour. Thats the top of the rail where its been scrubbed with a track rubber - on track thatold the sides are authentically brown. That can be Hornby or Peco brand. There again, I have some Hornby branded track made in China, which i would describe as being like Aluminium. Modern Peco is somewhat  lighter than the old stuff while having stilla hint of yellow in it. The Hornby Chinese stuff doesnt brown the way the old track did, it develops rust spots.

 

Dare i say it 4/5 different compositions here so you could both be right. Call it a draw lads

Is that still steel with a plated surface? Track back in the Triang days was and we had the old crud collector "Magnadesion"!

I'll have a look at the C&L bullhead I bought for some point construction and compare the Peco.

Edited March 14, 2021 by melmerby

[animotion]

Thanks for all the replies and as I thought there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer to to which is better, nickel or steel which both have their advantages. Although steel probably looks more prototypical a large hand hovering over the steel rail to rerail a loco somehow makes the word prototypical less meaningful.

[harry lamb]

Steel for the 'purists' but Hi-NI for the pragmatist! Late last year l ordered 25m. of 18.83 gauge Hi-Ni B/H ready to lay 1m. track lengths from C&L and finished up with the very pliable steel rail instead! Didn't really matter but the chap at C&L was very busy with moving house etc so I accepted it and just got on with the job of laying it! However, the steel track was laid and all my turnouts etc. are N/S and Hi-Ni N/S but the visuals are not too obvious. The only real differences in rail 'colour' are my PB check, wing and siding rails but I use that material specifically for that purpose. Damp atmospheric conditions could be problematic with steel rail though. Incidentally, any steel rail I may use for switchwork has the foot and web pre tinned to prevent corrosion. Regards.HL. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by harry lamb
chap at C&L inserted.

[Trog]

In my experience one advantage of steel rail is that my locos seemed to get a better grip on it. So it might be worth considering for use on rising gradients. On my last layout I had an oval helix and locos that had happily hauled their trains up a 1 in 37 4th radius curve on steel rail would slip to a stand on the nickel silver rail of a length of P&C on the straight section.