KiwiRail EMD G12 help!!

[MGR Hooper!]

Hey,

We were contacted a few weeks ago by a client who wanted us to design a KiwiRail EMD G12 diesel loco. Whilst the client could provide most of the information possible, he hasn't been able to provide us with as many photos as we'd like from various angles and your regular search on Google turns up few images, most not of great quality and almost all in the same angle.

 

 

 

 

 

We need a little more help. If anyone has more images of this locomotive (from different angles) or has any links to a good source for images, please let us know. You can do so by either replying to this thread or sending me a PM.

 

We're specifically looking for detailed images of the bogies (client says that there were two types) and images from other angles (all the images we managed to get are all from the same angles as the images we just posted in the thread.

Any help will be appreciated.

Regards,
Hayley

[Allegheny1600]

Hello Hayley,

Thats a lovely project, I wish you well.

I have a few pictures of the Sri Lankan version if that’s any help? I don’t know how close they are but to me, they look very similar indeed. The broad gauge version may be on Bloomberg two axle trucks though!

Cheers,

John

[Neils WRX]

I think there would be a good market for a G12 as they were sold to a number of countries including the former Yugoslavia and Israel.

 

I have a couple of old Balkan models ones.

 

 

Thanks

 

Neil
 

[HSB]

Although they were a GM design a batch was built under licence by Clyde Engineering in Australia which probably accounts for the different bogies.

[MGR Hooper!]

9 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Hello Hayley,
 

That's a lovely project, I wish you well.

I have a few pictures of the Sri Lankan version if that’s any help? I don’t know how close they are but to me, they look very similar indeed. The broad gauge version may be on Bloomberg two axle trucks though!
 

Cheers,

John

Hi John,

That's absolutely brilliant. I never made the connection before. Real stroke of genius. I did a quick Google search and the KiwiRail DA and SriLankan Railway M2 are about 95% similar. I have managed to source some pics including both bogie designs now. But I would appreciate it if you could send me the images via a PM. The images are not for re-distribution, only for R&D.

From our preliminary research into the SLR M2, there are 12 Co-Co and 2 Bo-Bo ones.

Thanks once again. It was a huge lead.

Cheers,
Hay

[MGR Hooper!]

7 hours ago, HSB said:

Although they were a GM design a batch was built under licence by Clyde Engineering in Australia which probably accounts for the different bogies.

Quite intriguing, I did some more research and it turns out that they did use the original bogies from GM-EMD. The similarities between the M2 in Sri Lanka and DA in New Zealand are remarkable, down to them getting the same updated bogies later on in their life.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Hayley,

I’m glad my suggestion was useful!

I’m not on my big computer so I don’t have access to my original images, sorry, the best I can do is a link to my Flicker images here;

https://flic.kr/p/yCoeUE

Just scroll through and you will see I caught both four and six axle locos, luckily.

Cheers,

John

Edited March 12, 2021 by Allegheny1600
iPad playing up

[TTDB]

I don’t know if this helps but a model was recently made for  Brazilian model company 

http://premamodels.com.br/modelos.htm

 

 

http://premamodels.com.br/fotos.htm

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by TTDB

[HSB]

You could try looking at the New Zealand Model Railway Guild site for sources of information.

[MGR Hooper!]

6 hours ago, HSB said:

You could try looking at the New Zealand Model Railway Guild site for sources of information.

 

Thank you... 

[avonside1563]

Why not give these guys a shout seeing as they have several in their collection. From my experience Kiwis are very forthcoming and helpful.

 

https://www.steaminc.org.nz/our-fleet/diesel-locomotives/

[MGR Hooper!]

5 hours ago, avonside1563 said:

Why not give these guys a shout seeing as they have several in their collection. From my experience Kiwis are very forthcoming and helpful.

 

https://www.steaminc.org.nz/our-fleet/diesel-locomotives/

 

Thank you so much. 

[Rhys]

Just came across your first post.

There were actually 3 different types of bogies. The plan shows 1400 to 1429 which were phase I models. the orginal bogies limited these locos to freight as they road poorly . 1430 to 1439 were built by Clyde in Australia with different bogies which road better and so were used for express work. They also were slightly longer with a rear platform and larger fuel tanks. The phase III Da's (with slight dfferences in the car body grills )were on Dofasco bogies which look identical to the bogies on US SD7/9 locos. The Phase II bogies are a bit of a cross with a Dofasco style frame and the phase I brake arrangement.

At Paekakariki 1431 is on its orginal bogies. I think 1410 is on modern Dofasco bogies. 1471 was modernised in the early 1990's when it was here in Palmerston North as it became the depot pet.

Apart from the bogies, any historical photos pre 1980 will be fine as they were not externally rebuilt during their careers.

 

Cheers,

Rhys

[Ian Morgan]

1431 at Paekakariki in 1999. Not a very good photo, but it was still early days for digital cameras and I was an 'early adopter'.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Ian Morgan
re-loaded image

[21C123]

Hi Hayley

 

I took some photos of the DAs at Paekakariki at their open day July 2020.

 

 

Roger

[21C123]

And one from July 2012, my son being very unimpressed....

 

Roger

 

and DA725 the same day. 
 

Edited March 18, 2021 by 21C123
Add second photo

[MGR Hooper!]

Thanks to each and everyone of you gents for helping out. It's proved extremely useful and we've been able to advance our CAD work. 

 

Thanks once again

[Andrew1471]

Hello,

 

May I be of help? I am a volunteer that belongs to the group that owns the 3 DA's above. What details are you specifically after? I can take measurements and photos as required. Is this project for model railways or for a train simulator?

 

Cheers,

Andrew 

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, Andrew1471 said:

Hello,

 

May I be of help? I am a volunteer that belongs to the group that owns the 3 DA's above. What details are you specifically after? I can take measurements and photos as required. Is this project for model railways or for a train simulator?

 

Cheers,

Andrew 

Hi Andrew, as of now I have the information I need, but I am sure that we'll need some help soon. I'll send you a private message regarding this.

The project is for an HO scale model.

[Andrew1471]

Sounds good.

 

Would you be willing to make an S scale version?

 

I assume you are doing the Clyde built phase 2 locos 1430-1439?

[Grovenor]

There are also these

https://www.frateschi.com.br/web/locomotiva-g12-a-1-a/?lang=en

If they are like the U20C then they will actually be 4mm scale.

[SRman]

You may also find it useful to look at Queensland Railways' 1400 and 1450 classes, which also came out of Clyde Engineering. Both have 3-axle bogies, but the 1400 class was A1A-A1A whereas the 1450s were Co-Co. Like NZ railways, these are on 3' 6" gauge.

[Andrew1471]

20 minutes ago, SRman said:

You may also find it useful to look at Queensland Railways' 1400 and 1450 classes, which also came out of Clyde Engineering. Both have 3-axle bogies, but the 1400 class was A1A-A1A whereas the 1450s were Co-Co. Like NZ railways, these are on 3' 6" gauge.

The Queensland variant differs from the NZGR variant in many ways. Dynamic brakes vs none being one obvious difference

[MGR Hooper!]

6 hours ago, Andrew1471 said:

Sounds good.

 

Would you be willing to make an S scale version?

 

I assume you are doing the Clyde built phase 2 locos 1430-1439?

Always open to doing new commissions...!
 

3 hours ago, Grovenor said:

There are also these

https://www.frateschi.com.br/web/locomotiva-g12-a-1-a/?lang=en

If they are like the U20C then they will actually be 4mm scale.

The client in question did tell us about this, and we've used many images of this model as a reference, with improvements along the way.
 

1 hour ago, SRman said:

You may also find it useful to look at Queensland Railways' 1400 and 1450 classes, which also came out of Clyde Engineering. Both have 3-axle bogies, but the 1400 class was A1A-A1A whereas the 1450s were Co-Co. Like NZ railways, these are on 3' 6" gauge.

We did initially look at these, but there's quite a few differences and very little we can use for reference. The Sri Lankan Railways M2 is a more suitable loco to base our research on. Not to mention it's closer to home for us.

[SRman]

3 hours ago, Andrew1471 said:

The Queensland variant differs from the NZGR variant in many ways. Dynamic brakes vs none being one obvious difference

 

Did the 1400/1450 have dynamic brakes? Only three of the 1460 class which followed had dynamic brakes, with the prominent angled vents on the short hoods ahead of the cab.

I realise these were different to the NZ types in a number of ways, but I also thought that just possibly the bogie designs may give some clues as to what was on the NZ locos.