Chuffnell Regis

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

In which case, could the office go at the other end of the staithes?

 

Or instead of a yard crane, only have one inside the goods shed.

 

I'll juggle things around once the yard crane kit arrives, I think.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Gopher said:

Yeh - I think the photo  exaggerated the bump.  It was actually reasonably well inset into the stone sets.  Luckily only mechanical dobbins used it   

 

Ah yes I see. The curbstones on the near side gave the impression it was raised.

 

However, I will challenge your suggestion that this weighbridge was only ever used by motor vehicles. The weighbridge hut is in the Great Western's "new works" style of the early 20th century; I cannot really imagine that it can be supposed to date from after the Great War. So at the time of its installation, pretty much all goods traffic would be horse-drawn. I'd be highly sceptical* that the weighbridge itself had been renewed in the 50 - 60 years before the late BR steam era of Dewchurch. 

 

Superb structure modelling there - I'm glad I hunted it down.

 

*about as sceptical as I am of coal staithes!

[Graham T]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

*about as sceptical as I am of coal staithes!

 

I think I'm going to leave that particular can of worms unopened!

[MrWolf]

42 minutes ago, Graham T said:

 

I think I'm going to leave that particular can of worms unopened!

 

Likewise. I'll be sorting out my goods yard shortly. I would expect to see the coal office next to where the coal is unloaded. Just my two cents worth!

To keep the space open in my goods yard, (it being a small wayside station anyway with less facilities than a terminus.) I am going with an area of scattered coal dust where coal is unloaded directly into bags on a cart and the use of a rail mounted 6 ton crane for loading timber onto wagons.

Hopefully that will save a bit of work too.

[Barclay]

17 hours ago, Graham T said:

That looks very smart; and makes me wonder if I've hung the gutters a bit low on mine ...

Hi the building looks great, but, yes I do think the gutters are too low - the rain would miss them. They need to be right up under the tiles, like the one on this house opposite me...

 

[Graham T]

22 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

Likewise. I'll be sorting out my goods yard shortly. I would expect to see the coal office next to where the coal is unloaded. Just my two cents worth!

To keep the space open in my goods yard, (it being a small wayside station anyway with less facilities than a terminus.) I am going with an area of scattered coal dust where coal is unloaded directly into bags on a cart and the use of a rail mounted 6 ton crane for loading timber onto wagons.

Hopefully that will save a bit of work too.

 

I agree with you, I would think the office would be near where the coal gets unloaded, if possible.  That's probably what I'll go for.

[Graham T]

17 minutes ago, Barclay said:

Hi the building looks great, but, yes I do think the gutters are too low - the rain would miss them. They need to be right up under the tiles, like the one on this house opposite me...

 

 

I think you're right (unfortunately!)  Time to get the scalpel and filler out

[MrWolf]

You have just reminded me that the drainpipes for my station building are in the wrong place. As in still in one of the boxes of parts I build things from.

Another job to add to the growing list!

[Gopher]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah yes I see. The curbstones on the near side gave the impression it was raised.

 

However, I will challenge your suggestion that this weighbridge was only ever used by motor vehicles. The weighbridge hut is in the Great Western's "new works" style of the early 20th century; I cannot really imagine that it can be supposed to date from after the Great War. So at the time of its installation, pretty much all goods traffic would be horse-drawn. I'd be highly sceptical* that the weighbridge itself had been renewed in the 50 - 60 years before the late BR steam era of Dewchurch. 

 

Superb structure modelling there - I'm glad I hunted it down.

 

*about as sceptical as I am of coal staithes!

Yes of course you are correct the weighbridge and hut would have been installed when dobbin was the main form of transport.  Thanks.

 

I'm never sure about coal staithes, although I have included them on past layouts.  My local station (ex GWR)  when I was a kid (1960s)  had coal piled in the disused cattle dock, as well as in piles along one of the mileage sidings.  I'd never actually seen coal staithes apart from on model railways layouts, or in books.  

[Nick Holliday]

2 hours ago, Gopher said:

I'm never sure about coal staithes, although I have included them on past layouts.  My local station (ex GWR)  when I was a kid (1960s)  had coal piled in the disused cattle dock, as well as in piles along one of the mileage sidings.  I'd never actually seen coal staithes apart from on model railways layouts, or in books.  

One of my pet subjects!  Coal bins or pens (better not to call them staithes as that confuses them with the proper article) were quite a rarity away from the South East of England.  Even rarer was their placement alongside the tracks.  As your layout photo demonstrates, their presence severely restricts access to the tracks for all the other customers that needed to load or unload wagons.  Placing the coal office next to them would be even more outrageous, at least in those times when the yard was busy with all sorts of general traffic. As you noted, as areas such as cattle docks and loading platforms became less used for general merchandise, the coal merchants would stealthily take advantage, but, at the majority of smaller stations, the coal would have been unloaded directly from the wagon onto the delivery cart, and any small amounts left over after the railway wagon had been sent away would have been left on the ground to be dealt with the next day, before the stationmaster got too annoyed. I'm not sure if there was a minimum load that could be ordered - most of the big suppliers talk about "truckloads" but that might only mean 4 tons in a wagon, and, if loaded into the merchant's own wagon, the colliery might well be happy to only load 2 or 3 tons, enough to satisfy a single customer.

Storing coal in bins would generally only be a temporary measure; the burning quality tends to lowered in storage, particularly in the open air; there is the danger of spontaneous combustion destroying the pens; and there would always be the problem of pilfering. It must also be remembered that there was a huge variety of coal types available, and customers would have their preferences, so a merchant might need several different bins if he is going to keep them all separate, although during summer he might be tempted by the generous discounts the collieries offered to clear their stocks at times of low demand to build up a supply of his most popular ones. Since having bins next to the track is uncommon, the next most likely place is around the edge of the goods yard, leaving the tracks clear.  So, on your layout, there might have been a couple of pens set into the embankment to the left of your weighbridge, with the merchant's small office alongside, although this location is rather tempting for any light-fingered raiders.

[clachnaharry]

I call them rocking horse poo staithes. Best place for them is alongside the bay platform - in the fiddle yard. 

 

 

[MrWolf]

 We have had this debate on other threads From what I have seen on old photographs, if a coal merchant has both his office and his storage in the goods yard, it tends to be away from the tracks, however inconvenient this may seem, except in the case of a dedicated coal siding where there may well be several merchants based alongside.

I suspect that the coal bins in model form date back fifty years or so to when fully scenic layouts became popular.

Sometimes it's a case of what to leave out rather than what to fit in. A town coal merchant may well have a small hut in a station yard but store his coal elsewhere in a secure yard. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by MrWolf
Stupid autocorrect

[Compound2632]

Having mischievously lit the blue touch-paper, I'm standing well back...

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, Nick Holliday said:

One of my pet subjects!  Coal bins or pens (better not to call them staithes as that confuses them with the proper article) were quite a rarity away from the South East of England.  Even rarer was their placement alongside the tracks.  As your layout photo demonstrates, their presence severely restricts access to the tracks for all the other customers that needed to load or unload wagons.  Placing the coal office next to them would be even more outrageous, at least in those times when the yard was busy with all sorts of general traffic. As you noted, as areas such as cattle docks and loading platforms became less used for general merchandise, the coal merchants would stealthily take advantage, but, at the majority of smaller stations, the coal would have been unloaded directly from the wagon onto the delivery cart, and any small amounts left over after the railway wagon had been sent away would have been left on the ground to be dealt with the next day, before the stationmaster got too annoyed. I'm not sure if there was a minimum load that could be ordered - most of the big suppliers talk about "truckloads" but that might only mean 4 tons in a wagon, and, if loaded into the merchant's own wagon, the colliery might well be happy to only load 2 or 3 tons, enough to satisfy a single customer.

Storing coal in bins would generally only be a temporary measure; the burning quality tends to lowered in storage, particularly in the open air; there is the danger of spontaneous combustion destroying the pens; and there would always be the problem of pilfering. It must also be remembered that there was a huge variety of coal types available, and customers would have their preferences, so a merchant might need several different bins if he is going to keep them all separate, although during summer he might be tempted by the generous discounts the collieries offered to clear their stocks at times of low demand to build up a supply of his most popular ones. Since having bins next to the track is uncommon, the next most likely place is around the edge of the goods yard, leaving the tracks clear.  So, on your layout, there might have been a couple of pens set into the embankment to the left of your weighbridge, with the merchant's small office alongside, although this location is rather tempting for any light-fingered raiders.

 

Thanks Nick, an interesting idea there.  I might look at cutting the coal staithes bins down to just two, and see about setting them in the bank as you suggest.  Pics of the concept may follow in due course!

[Graham T]

17 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

Sometimes it's a case of what to leave out rather than what to fit in. A town coal merchant may well have a small hut in a station yard but store his coal elsewhere in a secure yard. 

 

 

 

Agreed.  Freeing up space in the goods yard would make it look better I think.

[MrWolf]

38 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Having mischievously lit the blue touch-paper, I'm standing well back...

 

Which is why I am barred from all kinds of political forums. 

[Graham T]

Soooo, don't stop the presses yet, but I think I may have had a slight burst of inspiration. 

 

How about putting the coal bins (whatever they are called) and office at the front of the layout, where there is a large empty space?  The coal bins would be partly dug into a grassy bank extending across from next to the cattle dock.  The weighbridge office goes where I originally intended - although hopefully without such a lean... 

 

The crane will go where the small white glue pot is, so the goods yard is left reasonably empty with room for vehicles to manoeuvre.  And I'd build up between the rails of some of the sidings with cinder ballast to form vehicle access to the coal bins (I've seen that done on the prototype even!)  Anyone spot any obvious howlers with that plan?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Graham T

[Nick Holliday]

17 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I suspect that the coal bins in model form date back fifty years or so to when fully scenic layouts became popular.

Sometimes it's a case of what to leave out rather than what to fit in. A town coal merchant may well have a small hut in a station yard but store his coal elsewhere in a secure yard. 

 

The story can be traced back even further, to 1946 at the latest, as this fascinating article on the influential modeller John Ahern shows: http://tbmod.com/rm/Madder Valley MRJ 1994 dec.pdf

His historic model railway, The Madder Valley was started before the war, but by 1946 he had extended it to a new terminus, called, eventually, Gammon Magna. Ahern lived and worked in London, and although he was modelling bucolic rural scenes, some of his inspiration came from the local railways he saw around him, together with sources such as Ernest Carter's drawings of buildings and lineside equipment, which were largely based on LBSC examples.  Coal bins (he regrettably calls them staithes, so I suppose 75 years of usage has to be grudgingly accepted) close to the tracks was a common feature in the London area, particularly in the south, so he had no qualms introducing the feature.  His modelling became the blueprint for later scenic layouts, so it is no wonder that this London-centric idea became rather more widespread amongst the modelling fraternity than in real life.

[Graham T]

The old "don't make a model of a model" trap, I guess.  Anyway, I think I am going to place them and the office as per the photo above.  It will make the goods yard look bigger.

[clachnaharry]

Barnaby Brown, an employee of Booger and Bogit coal merchants of Chuffnel Regis, was badly injured on Friday 6th November, when he was struck by a cattle wagon being shunted at the local goods yard whilst conveying a barrowload of coal across the tracks. Before he lost consciousness, he was heard to complain that he didn't know why that Mr Booger didn't let him just pile the excess coal next to the unloading siding , until Harry  took the cart came back form his rounds to reload...

[Graham T]

Should have happened on Friday the 13th though, surely?

[MrWolf]

Elf n safety? In the 30s? One of my great uncles who started his working life on the GWR used to say that you could tell how good a shunter was by whether he still had all of his fingers.

Short of conducting a seance, I still don't know if he was joking or not...

[Graham T]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

[MrWolf]

He spent part of his career cursing ballast and later getting others to curse ballast.

Obviously it runs in the family. 

His son, my father's older cousin ended up as a driver instructor on the Midland Region.

Edited November 30, 2021 by MrWolf

[Graham T]

I've been under the cosh with work lately, but have managed to get a little bit of modelling done.  Mostly I've been making (painfully) slow progress with sorting out the fiddle yard.  This has mostly been an exercise in wishful thinking - as in wishing I had taken more care with baseboard building and track laying.  Note to self for Chuffnell Regis Mk II - buy modular baseboards and don't try to be clever with having track on different levels!

 

Slightly more success with the weighbridge office though.  I relocated the gutters and downpipes as they were bothering me.  I think they look better now, and so hopefully I will be able to start painting later today.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Graham T