Chuffnell Regis

[BrushType4]

Cracking job on the weighbridge office build. Just a Pro Tip, gently rub the corners with fine sandpaper before painting. That makes sure the bricks are squared off nicely.

Edited January 4, 2022 by BrushType4

[Graham T]

34 minutes ago, BrushType4 said:

Cracking job on the weighbridge office build. Just a Pro Tip, gently rub the corners with fine sandpaper before painting. That makes sure the bricks are squared off nicely.

 

Thanks for the tip, I'll do that.  I had noticed that the brick corners looked a bit jagged from some angles.

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, longchap said:

 

Evening Graham,

 

If that’s a coal siding, it’s likely to have had heaps of coal tipped right off the wagons onto the ground for loading directly into trader’s horse drawn carts and/or lorries, both still in use during the 50s. Alternatively, if the coal merchant had a regular arrangement with the colliery, he probably was able to keep the wagon(s) on site for a couple of days. In either case, the coal office would be in the way of coal and road vehicles if left where it’s currently resting. The straiths were seldom in constant use in busy yards, as they necessitated double handling.

 

Further heaps could be located at the edge of the yard, together with another merchant and the huts adding more interest, where is when the name boards also became essential!

 

I can’t recall your road system, but trust that there is a vehicle traffic route?

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

Evening Bill.  Good point, I should have shown the where road vehicle access is.  The pic below shows it better; more worm's eye view than Stuka!

 

Vehicles would enter the goods yard along the blue line, which has the weighbridge office at the left-hand end of it.  Originally I was going to put the coal office etc. in the triangular area where the Scarab is, but it would have been too crowded, so then my thinking was that the coal could be unloaded in that area, and then either shipped straight out of the yard, or else moved along the red line to be stored in the staithes next to the coal office, for collection later.  Alternatively coal wagons could be shunted onto the line feeding into the turntable, but then of course they would have to be unloaded and moved away pretty quickly or they would be blocking access to both the engine shed and the cattle dock; that doesn't seem very likely / prototypical to me (not that I know anything about the prototype, just applying some common sense...)

 

[Neal Ball]

Not sure I would add coal staithes on the road to the turntable Graham.

 

The wagons could be sat there for days on end and will be in the way of TT access.

 

Can you get onto the TT another way?

[Graham T]

Yes, I think you might be right Neal.  Doesn't feel quite right to put it in that location - it feels as if the working routine might not make sense.  I could put it in the triangular space next to the goods shed, and lose the staithes, but I want to get a small crane in there too, so it would be too crowded with all that in there.  So maybe a good option would be to put the coal office on the goods yard entrance road, somewhere near to the weighbridge office.  And just a heap of coal in the triangular space perhaps.  That has a better feel to it.

 

What do you think?

[CoombeTown]

27 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Yes, I think you might be right Neal.  Doesn't feel quite right to put it in that location - it feels as if the working routine might not make sense.  I could put it in the triangular space next to the goods shed, and lose the staithes, but I want to get a small crane in there too, so it would be too crowded with all that in there.  So maybe a good option would be to put the coal office on the goods yard entrance road, somewhere near to the weighbridge office.  And just a heap of coal in the triangular space perhaps.  That has a better feel to it.

 

What do you think?

I think that is a better plan Graham. I’m having the same issues planning Coombe Town, I think in the case of BLTs less is more. Especially remembering to leave turning space for lorries visiting the crane, I doubt Scarabs were easy to perform a 3-point turn in!

[longchap]

A little tricky, but some sleepy thoughts.

 

A coal yard was best self-contained, separate from the goods yard due to the very dirty nature of the task creating a great deal of coal dust. Failing this, it was at least better on a separate siding and the only readily available one appears to be between the goods shed and the cattle dock, but this is too close to the livestock and would cause problems, so could you relocate the goods shed next to the cattle dock, with the coal siding where the goods road was? At least it’s next to the dirty engine shed.

 

Night, night,

 

Bill

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by longchap

[Neal Ball]

9 hours ago, Graham T said:

Yes, I think you might be right Neal.  Doesn't feel quite right to put it in that location - it feels as if the working routine might not make sense.  I could put it in the triangular space next to the goods shed, and lose the staithes, but I want to get a small crane in there too, so it would be too crowded with all that in there.  So maybe a good option would be to put the coal office on the goods yard entrance road, somewhere near to the weighbridge office.  And just a heap of coal in the triangular space perhaps.  That has a better feel to it.

 

What do you think?

Yes I agree….

 

Although could you make some minor / major changes elsewhere?

 

Swapping the goods shed location would be good, but you are still left with a tight space to turn trailers etc. plus you are putting the staithes closer to the platform… which I am sure the Major might object to.

 

Another option might be to change the point on the road to the line between the goods shed and cattle dock… change it to a double slip, which could allow access to the turntable. That would then leave your proposed coal road as it is.

 

Does that work? Would the geometry be right.

 

Of course option 3 could be to remove the turntable completely….. or get access from a completely different direction.

 

Just a couple of thoughts, neither of which might be practical.

 

Good luck

[Graham T]

10 hours ago, longchap said:

A little tricky, but some sleepy thoughts.

 

A coal yard was best self-contained, separate from the goods yard due to the very dirty nature of the task creating a great deal of coal dust. Failing this, it was at least better on a separate siding and the only readily available one appears to be between the goods shed and the cattle dock, but this is too close to the livestock and would cause problems, so could you relocate the goods shed next to the cattle dock, with the coal siding where the goods road was? At least it’s next to the dirty engine shed.

 

Night, night,

 

Bill

 

 

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

Yes I agree….

 

Although could you make some minor / major changes elsewhere?

 

Swapping the goods shed location would be good, but you are still left with a tight space to turn trailers etc. plus you are putting the staithes closer to the platform… which I am sure the Major might object to.

 

Another option might be to change the point on the road to the line between the goods shed and cattle dock… change it to a double slip, which could allow access to the turntable. That would then leave your proposed coal road as it is.

 

Does that work? Would the geometry be right.

 

Of course option 3 could be to remove the turntable completely….. or get access from a completely different direction.

 

Just a couple of thoughts, neither of which might be practical.

 

Good luck

 

Good morning chaps, and thanks for the inputs.

 

I don't think I will relocate the goods shed, as I'd have to re-lay the sidings as well, and as mentioned moving the coal siding nearer to the passenger platform might not be a popular move!

 

Using a slip in the goods yard had crossed my mind, but I did wonder if complex trackwork might be a bit much for a small BLT like Chuffnell R.  And in any case I don't think I could make the geometry work to feed a line into the turntable without shortening the sidings, which I'd rather not do.

 

Getting rid of the turntable is an option too of course, but doesn't appeal because (a) I want to run tender locos, (b) I scratch built an engine shed that I'd like to keep, and last but not least I already have one of the infamous Greenwood turntables waiting to be built!

 

So...

 

The thinking this morning - which might still change of course - is to put the coal office on the entrance road to the goods yard, close to the weighbridge office.  I'm also considering putting a second, rather ramshackle coal office in between those two, belonging to a certain Mr R Spode.  The idea for that building came from this photo courtesy of @MrWolf:

 

 

Unlike that photo though, I wouldn't have coal stored on that roadway.  Unloading would take place in the triangular area near the goods shed, and coal would be moved straight out by cart, truck, or whatever - there wouldn't be any storage for it in the goods yard.

 

Does that sound vaguely feasible?

[longchap]

As I said, a little tricky, but if your options are restricted and you are still having a coal yard, which most branches did, it would be best to make it look as prototypical as possible, so a minimal presence would seem to work, but I’d bet that with such restricted room, only a single merchant would be present.

 

Bon courage,

 

Bill

[Graham T]

On 05/01/2022 at 11:09, longchap said:

As I said, a little tricky, but if your options are restricted and you are still having a coal yard, which most branches did, it would be best to make it look as prototypical as possible, so a minimal presence would seem to work, but I’d bet that with such restricted room, only a single merchant would be present.

 

Bon courage,

 

Bill

 

Now you're just being a spoilsport Bill

 

No doubt you are right, but I do fancy making that little corrugated iron hut.  It's smaller than the other two, and I think would look the part in between these...

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Graham T

[Neal Ball]

That all makes sense Graham.

 

At Henley, although there was a large amount of coal being brought in.... not all the local agents had a coal office within the station area.

 

Toomers fronted onto Station Road, with no access to the goods yard.

 

There was a small office at the foot of the cattle pens... but no staithes.... coal was unloaded on the back road straight onto carts. On that road, I have added staithes and two offices...

 

Apologies about the turntable, I forgot you had a Greenwood one.

[Nick C]

At the moment, the only way onto your turntable is via the cattle dock, which seems a bit unlikely to me - you can't turn a loco if cattle are being loaded! If you can get in via a slip I think that'd be more realistic - there certainly are examples of BLTs with slips (see my Lyme Regis track plan linked below for example - or for GWR examples, try Abingdon, Staines, Clevedon or Yealmpton)

[Graham T]

Thanks Neal, I'm (pretty) sure that I know what I want to do now!  I might make a start on the little corrugated iron hut later on today, time permitting.

 

No problem ref the turntable - I suspect you might be trying to forget that you have one...

[Graham T]

1 minute ago, Nick C said:

At the moment, the only way onto your turntable is via the cattle dock, which seems a bit unlikely to me - you can't turn a loco if cattle are being loaded! If you can get in via a slip I think that'd be more realistic - there certainly are examples of BLTs with slips (see my Lyme Regis track plan linked below for example - or for GWR examples, try Abingdon, Staines, Clevedon or Yealmpton)

 

That is niggling me too, I must admit.  Could you post the link to the Lyme Regis plan please?  I can't see it for some reason.

[Nick C]

9 minutes ago, Graham T said:

 

That is niggling me too, I must admit.  Could you post the link to the Lyme Regis plan please?  I can't see it for some reason.

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srq/S3476.htm - or if that doesn't work, try https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/cdgwef.htm

 

Basically a single slip on the run-round loop that allows access from the loop to the loco shed, and from the running line to the goods yard, which I think is pretty much what you'd want (albeit in your case with the addition of the turntable on the shed access)?

[Graham T]

Thanks Nick.  That looks like it would work with a single slip.  I'll print a template and see if I can make it fit!

 

If it does, I'm then thinking about the wiring, which I imagine might give me a headache.  I've got electrofrog points throughout and am using DCC, but seem to remember reading somewhere that it's better to use insulfrog slips...

[Neal Ball]

21 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Thanks Nick.  That looks like it would work with a single slip.  I'll print a template and see if I can make it fit!

 

If it does, I'm then thinking about the wiring, which I imagine might give me a headache.  I've got electrofrog points throughout and am using DCC, but seem to remember reading somewhere that it's better to use insulfrog slips...

My slips are electrofrog… although it looks like all my points are electrofrog!

[Graham T]

I'm beginning to convince myself that a single slip is the right way ahead.  Unfortunately, as it will mean lifting two points and sidings.  Oh well, I've done it before!

 

Who'd have thought a simple coal office could cause so much trouble...

[Graham T]

I went away and did something else in an effort to avoid the inevitable headache of re-laying track (again - I really must learn to plan better).

 

I decided to put a first coat of varnish on the re-routed river - something else that has changed since the original plan, way back in March last year...

 

Mr Wolf's river at Aston on Clun impressed me, so I'm using Rustins varnish as he recommended.  Strangely enough there was no problem in getting a small tin of it sent here from the UK.  Anyway, here's a couple of views.  Several more coats required yet.  I might try putting a transparent green wash in between each layer of varnish, I'm not sure yet.

 

This is much easier than dealing with track and wiring!

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Graham T

[chuffinghell]

18 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I went away and did something else in an effort to avoid……

 

You should have come to me, I’m an expert at avoidance tactics 

[Graham T]

After a lot of head scratching, and more than  a little bit of profanity, I'm beginning to think that the turntable may not work, at least not in its current form.  In this photo you can see the various elements that I'd like to fit in, using a single slip to feed the two sidings nearest to the front of the baseboard and the engine shed.  The siting of the turntable is constrained by baseboard cross braces, which are either side of the bank of point levers.  It can't go a foot further to the right as that would push the engine shed too close to the river, unless I put the shed on the left hand side of the table, as we're looking at it - but I think that might look a bit weird.

 

And to make the track geometry work it would need a fairly sharply curved section of track, about 8-9" long, between the right hand end of the single slip and the turntable.

 

Also, ideally I need a 10" gap between the table and the shed, so that tender locos could take on coal without sticking their noses into the shed, which again I think would look strange...

 

To complicate things even further, the well of the table is 12" across, even though it's a 55' table (about 8.7" in the real world), and that won't fit between the cross braces without some surgery.  Rubbing salt into the wound, all the wiring for the point motors runs directly under where the table well would be - another poor decision in the planning stages.  I suppose a surface-mounted table would be the solution, and now I'm wondering why I chose a well in the first place?!  I know that I wanted to model it on the one at Fairford.

 

So, a bit flummoxed at the moment.  I'll put in the single slip anyway (I don't think I need a double) so as to fix the issue of the engine shed feeding off the cattle dock siding.  Can anyone advise me on whether it's better to go with insulfrog or electrofrog?  Maybe @Alister_G?  And maybe get a Dapol turntable to see if a surface-mounted one would actually work.

 

Which would still leave me with a spare Greenwood turntable, of course!  Maybe I could save it for Chuffnell Regis Mk II...

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Graham T

[Alister_G]

1 hour ago, Graham T said:

Can anyone advise me on whether it's better to go with insulfrog or electrofrog?

 

Insulfrog simplifies the installation and wiring to a certain extent, but at the cost of reduced running reliability. Given that you have all electrofrog elsewhere, you might be better going with that for the slip too. At first sight, wiring them up is complex, but if you break it down it's fairly logical. Using a couple of autofrogs is much easier  than wiring switches, and saves expensive mistakes..

 

Al.

[Gopher]

10 hours ago, Graham T said:

After a lot of head scratching, and more than  a little bit of profanity, I'm beginning to think that the turntable may not work, at least not in its current form.  In this photo you can see the various elements that I'd like to fit in, using a single slip to feed the two sidings nearest to the front of the baseboard and the engine shed.  The siting of the turntable is constrained by baseboard cross braces, which are either side of the bank of point levers.  It can't go a foot further to the right as that would push the engine shed too close to the river, unless I put the shed on the left hand side of the table, as we're looking at it - but I think that might look a bit weird.

 

And to make the track geometry work it would need a fairly sharply curved section of track, about 8-9" long, between the right hand end of the single slip and the turntable.

 

Also, ideally I need a 10" gap between the table and the shed, so that tender locos could take on coal without sticking their noses into the shed, which again I think would look strange...

 

To complicate things even further, the well of the table is 12" across, even though it's a 55' table (about 8.7" in the real world), and that won't fit between the cross braces without some surgery.  Rubbing salt into the wound, all the wiring for the point motors runs directly under where the table well would be - another poor decision in the planning stages.  I suppose a surface-mounted table would be the solution, and now I'm wondering why I chose a well in the first place?!  I know that I wanted to model it on the one at Fairford.

 

So, a bit flummoxed at the moment.  I'll put in the single slip anyway (I don't think I need a double) so as to fix the issue of the engine shed feeding off the cattle dock siding.  Can anyone advise me on whether it's better to go with insulfrog or electrofrog?  Maybe @Alister_G?  And maybe get a Dapol turntable to see if a surface-mounted one would actually work.

 

Which would still leave me with a spare Greenwood turntable, of course!  Maybe I could save it for Chuffnell Regis Mk II...

 

Graham - personally I'd go for electrofrog. for reliability, good running etc.  If it is a PECO point they normally supply clear instructions on how to wire it.   There is also useful guidance on various websites (including this one), to demystify the wiring.     Best of Luck

[Graham T]

10 hours ago, Alister_G said:

 

Insulfrog simplifies the installation and wiring to a certain extent, but at the cost of reduced running reliability. Given that you have all electrofrog elsewhere, you might be better going with that for the slip too. At first sight, wiring them up is complex, but if you break it down it's fairly logical. Using a couple of autofrogs is much easier  than wiring switches, and saves expensive mistakes..

 

Al.

 

56 minutes ago, Gopher said:

Graham - personally I'd go for electrofrog. for reliability, good running etc.  If it is a PECO point they normally supply clear instructions on how to wire it.   There is also useful guidance on various websites (including this one), to demystify the wiring.     Best of Luck

 

Thank you both

 

Electrofrog it shall be then.  Is an autofrog the same as a "frog juicer" then?  (Which I've always thought sounded a bit cruel...)

 

One of these at each end of the slip?  

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/gaugemaster-bpdcc80.html