Chuffnell Regis

[Alister_G]

5 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

It is essential that you test extensively before ballasting.  It’s a rule!

Paul.

 

Yep you must do lots and lots of playing TESTING!

 

Al.

[Graham T]

Well I've been doing plenty of that

 

mostly to make sure that my painting antics haven't messed things up again!

[Graham T]

Do any of you fine chaps have any tips for me ref the signalling and so on?

[Fishplate]

12 hours ago, Graham T said:

Do any of you fine chaps have any tips for me ref the signalling and so on?

 

Your track is looking great. Unfortunately I only have an outline understanding of signalling and associated bits n bobs, insufficient for a comprehensive reply. Maybe the others following are similar.

 

I wonder / expect there is probably a specific signalling topic on RMWeb where people of a signalling persuasion gather to ponder similar problems. It may be worth a wander around the home page and see if there is a signalling topic you can paste your diagram and questions into.

 

However, the next person on here might give a complete answer. . . . . . .

 

Hope that helps (vaguely?).

 

Looking forward to seeing more.

 

John

[Stubby47]

@The Stationmaster Mike - please can you help with signalling for this station ?

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, Fishplate said:

 

Your track is looking great. Unfortunately I only have an outline understanding of signalling and associated bits n bobs, insufficient for a comprehensive reply. Maybe the others following are similar.

 

I wonder / expect there is probably a specific signalling topic on RMWeb where people of a signalling persuasion gather to ponder similar problems. It may be worth a wander around the home page and see if there is a signalling topic you can paste your diagram and questions into.

 

However, the next person on here might give a complete answer. . . . . . .

 

Hope that helps (vaguely?).

 

Looking forward to seeing more.

 

John

 

 

Thanks John.  It did occur to me that there was probably a specific thread for signalling - and indeed there is.  So I linked my question in there, and am now waiting for an answer to flood in ... 

[Graham T]

44 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

@The Stationmaster Mike - please can you help with signalling for this station ?

 

Thank you Stu.

[Graham T]

Here's the results of the first ballasting experiment on the layout itself.  A bit of a mixed bag, I think.  I'd read somewhere on the forum about using masking tape along the sides of the track; that worked reasonably well, but I'm not sure if I will do it again.  And even though I've painted them beforehand, I still think the sleepers look a bit too dark (they don't look quite as dark as the photo in real life, but I'm still not 100% satisfied with them).  There are a few bald patches here and there to fill in as well.

 

I put the ballast down dry, and then used a small brush to get it into position.  I put too much down, so spent an age brushing it around!  And then dropped on diluted PVA with a pipette.

 

Anyway, I can't ballast any more until I've done the point rodding and placed the signal cable posts - so that's a relief

 

Here's how it looks, and a freebie shot of the Mogul.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure what that little red mark is on the running gear?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Graham T

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, Graham T said:

I've been painting some of the track this morning (carefully avoiding the switch rails), and so am now thinking about point rodding, and signalling, before I can get to grips with ballasting.

 

These are subjects about which I know next to nothing, so I'm hoping that some of you might be able to steer me in the right direction.  Here's a schematic of Chuffnell Regis, followed by a list of dumb questions.

 

Chuffnell Regis is (very) loosely based on Lambourn, and from photos I see that the run-round loop had two ground signals and ground levers controlling the points.  The point nearest to the platform was controlled from the signal box.  On the schematic the blue lines indicate point rodding runs.  Here come the questions...

 

1.  Would points 1 and 2 also be controlled from the signal box, or with ground levers?  If by ground levers, would there be ground signals too?  Where would those be?

2.  The signal I have at the end of the platform (starter I believe); would it also have a bracket to control departures from the bay platform?

3.  Similarly, the yellow (distant?) signal; I understand that this controls access into the station, but would it also have a second arm/bracket indicating if the track was set to take the train into the bay platform?

4.  I'm assuming (!!!) that all the points in the goods yard (i.e. beyond the red X), would be controlled by ground levers.  Is that correct?  Would they have ground signals too?  I'm guessing not, but really have no idea.

5.  Any recommendations for ground levers?

 

Sorry about all the questions  

I'll reply here because the plan is here rather than to your question in the signalling thread.  Presumably your layout timespan reains as your original idea. i.e. 1930s -'50s? 

 

Next thing is to correct the track plan as it has one major - but readily solved - omission because there should be a trap point at the place you have numbered 1  but you could make a dummy usinga couple of piec insode the centre of point No.1 - the trap point would be worked by rodding from the signal box but points 1 and 2 would be worked by j hand levers alongside the point itself (various of the latter can be found on the 'net).

 

The release crossover in the main platform line would be worked from the signal box or by a local ground frame.  if it is worked from the signal box the point in the platform line would probably have a facing point lock and there would oly be the one ground disc to control a movement back from the platform line onto the runround loop.

 

Visible signals wouyuld be as follows -

 

1.  Coming towards the station there would be a splitting Home Signal on a bracket structure with three dolls (short upright posts) on the bracket - as seen by an approaching train the one on the left would be the shortest and would have a 3ft arm to read to the yard etc,  the middle one would be the tallest and would have a 4 ft arm  to read to the main platform and the one on the right would be intermediate in height between the other two and read to the bay.

2.  For departing trains there would be separate straight post signals for both the main and bay platforms each with a single 4 ft arm - the GWt did not waste money on bracket signals where they weren't essential.

There could be a signal with a 3 ft arm  - with a ring on it to show that it was a siding signal - reading from the run round and goods yard or alternatively you could have one ground disc reading from the runround and another reading from the goods yard.  (With GWR signalling there is more than one way of skinning a cat depending on when the signalling was installed) .

3.  If you have ground signals reading from the yard there might be an Advanced Starting signal at the right hand end of your visible modelled area and it might have a lower 'Shunt Ahead Arm.

 

Your signal box would havea an absolute maximum of 16 levers to cater for the above signalling and the points and facing point locks.

Edited July 15, 2021 by The Stationmaster
Typo corrected - it's no longer 43ft

[beast66606]

54 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

as seen by an approaching train the one on the left would be the shortest and would have a 43ft arm to read to the yard etc,  the middle one would be the tallest and would have a 4 ft arm  to read to the main platform and the one on the right would be intermediate in height between the other two and read to the bay.

 

That would certainly be visible from far away Mike

[The Stationmaster]

11 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

 

That would certainly be visible from far away Mike

Thanks for proof reading - duly corrected

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I'll reply here because the plan is here rather than to your question in the signalling thread.  Presumably your layout timespan reains as your original idea. i.e. 1930s -'50s? 

 

Next thing is to correct the track plan as it has one major - but readily solved - omission because there should be a trap point at the place you have numbered 1  but you could make a dummy usinga couple of piec insode the centre of point No.1 - the trap point would be worked by rodding from the signal box but points 1 and 2 would be worked by j hand levers alongside the point itself (various of the latter can be found on the 'net).

 

The release crossover in the main platform line would be worked from the signal box or by a local ground frame.  if it is worked from the signal box the point in the platform line would probably have a facing point lock and there would oly be the one ground disc to control a movement back from the platform line onto the runround loop.

 

Visible signals wouyuld be as follows -

 

1.  Coming towards the station there would be a splitting Home Signal on a bracket structure with three dolls (short upright posts) on the bracket - as seen by an approaching train the one on the left would be the shortest and would have a 3ft arm to read to the yard etc,  the middle one would be the tallest and would have a 4 ft arm  to read to the main platform and the one on the right would be intermediate in height between the other two and read to the bay.

2.  For departing trains there would be separate straight post signals for both the main and bay platforms each with a single 4 ft arm - the GWt did not waste money on bracket signals where they weren't essential.

There could be a signal with a 3 ft arm  - with a ring on it to show that it was a siding signal - reading from the run round and goods yard or alternatively you could have one ground disc reading from the runround and another reading from the goods yard.  (With GWR signalling there is more than one way of skinning a cat depending on when the signalling was installed) .

3.  If you have ground signals reading from the yard there might be an Advanced Starting signal at the right hand end of your visible modelled area and it might have a lower 'Shunt Ahead Arm.

 

Your signal box would havea an absolute maximum of 16 levers to cater for the above signalling and the points and facing point locks.

 

Thanks very much Mike, that's enormously helpful.  I'll come up with a revised diagram this afternoon to see if I've understood everything properly (I probably haven't!)

[Fishplate]

RMweb shows just how great it is in helping fellow modelers once again. The old adage of 'Its not what you know, it's who you know' springs to mind.

 

Brilliant .

[Graham T]

Ok, after a bit of a struggle (producing graphics on the computer is not my forte), here is my understanding of how things should be arranged.  Working on the principle that a picture paints a thousand words, here's a photo of the layout with signalling etc. overlaid on it.  The time period is set in the 1930s to 1950s, as Mike said.

 

The key:

 

Small circles are ground discs.

FPL = facing point locks

GL = ground levers

Blue lines = point rodding runs

Signal posts are hopefully self-evident!

 

 

And of course I still have several questions!

 

1.  Have I got the ground discs (and indeed everything else) in the right places?  Which direction would the ground discs face?

2.  Would the bay and main platform starters be on the same height posts?

3.  Would the point where I have a question mark next to "GL" (point 1 in the schematic I posted earlier) be controlled by ground lever, or from the signal box?  I thought maybe the latter so that incoming goods trains could route directly into the goods yard without a pause, so that the running line is cleared as soon as it can be.  The same applies to the next point along the track as well, I suppose?

4.  There seems to be very little in the way of point rodding, so I have probably missed something very significant here?!

5.  Mike, you said the signal box would be a maximum of 16 levers, so I was wondering what sort of size it would be.  Rather than going for the standard issue Ratio kit, I was looking at this one from Intentio - would it be appropriate?

 

Thanks again for all the help so far, it's very much appreciated.

 

[Graham T]

Well that lot gave me a headache, so I decided to take a break and do something a bit simpler - build some coal staithes.  Not sure if this is exactly where they will find their home, but somewhere close.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Graham T

[Graham T]

@The Stationmaster - Mike, you also mentioned a trap point.  I don't think I can make it fit where you recommended (X marks the spot), as the two points run straight together.  But I could make a dummy one where the red lines indicate, between points 1 and 2.  Would that work?

 

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

Ok, after a bit of a struggle (producing graphics on the computer is not my forte), here is my understanding of how things should be arranged.  Working on the principle that a picture paints a thousand words, here's a photo of the layout with signalling etc. overlaid on it.  The time period is set in the 1930s to 1950s, as Mike said.

 

The key:

 

Small circles are ground discs.

FPL = facing point locks

GL = ground levers

Blue lines = point rodding runs

Signal posts are hopefully self-evident!

 

 

And of course I still have several questions!

 

1.  Have I got the ground discs (and indeed everything else) in the right places?  Which direction would the ground discs face?

2.  Would the bay and main platform starters be on the same height posts?

3.  Would the point where I have a question mark next to "GL" (point 1 in the schematic I posted earlier) be controlled by ground lever, or from the signal box?  I thought maybe the latter so that incoming goods trains could route directly into the goods yard without a pause, so that the running line is cleared as soon as it can be.  The same applies to the next point along the track as well, I suppose?

4.  There seems to be very little in the way of point rodding, so I have probably missed something very significant here?!

5.  Mike, you said the signal box would be a maximum of 16 levers, so I was wondering what sort of size it would be.  Rather than going for the standard issue Ratio kit, I was looking at this one from Intentio - would it be appropriate?

 

Thanks again for all the help so far, it's very much appreciated.

 

Your photo does paint a thousand words.  I’ve added to them!

Questions first:
1. Yes and no!  From the photographers position you would be looking at the back of all the signals except the home signal bracket.

2. Probably.

3. Probably neither. (Then the signalman can leave the shunter to it once he has set the road out of the sidings.)

4. FPLs need their own rod from the box so that’s another three.  Trapping ends of points need a rod connected to the point drive rod (see photo).

5. Your intentio kit is big enough - their website says it had a 27 lever 5BarVT frame.

 

To the photo:

 

1. I would like to try to get the bracket near the toes of the entry points.

2. No FPLs needed in sidings.

3. Starting signals at the clearance point in the bay and main platform.

4. (Dummy or imaginary) trap points in loop and siding have rod driven off main line point.

5. Both ends of run round crossover are worked by the box lever.

6. Disc signal for leaving loop / sidings will be at the trap points.  I’ve shown two (badly!) but with hindsight I think it could be only one that applied to both roads.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Paul.

[5BarVT]

10 minutes ago, Graham T said:

@The Stationmaster - Mike, you also mentioned a trap point.  I don't think I can make it fit where you recommended (X marks the spot), as the two points run straight together.  But I could make a dummy one where the red lines indicate, between points 1 and 2.  Would that work?

 

Yes, with another alongside on the loop line.

Paul.

[Graham T]

21 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Your photo does paint a thousand words.  I’ve added to them!

Questions first:
1. Yes and no!  From the photographers position you would be looking at the back of all the signals except the home signal bracket.

2. Probably.

3. Probably neither. (Then the signalman can leave the shunter to it once he has set the road out of the sidings.)

4. FPLs need their own rod from the box so that’s another three.  Trapping ends of points need a rod connected to the point drive rod (see photo).

5. Your intentio kit is big enough - their website says it had a 27 lever 5BarVT frame.

 

To the photo:

 

1. I would like to try to get the bracket near the toes of the entry points.

2. No FPLs needed in sidings.

3. Starting signals at the clearance point in the bay and main platform.

4. (Dummy or imaginary) trap points in loop and siding have rod driven off main line point.

5. Both ends of run round crossover are worked by the box lever.

6. Disc signal for leaving loop / sidings will be at the trap points.  I’ve shown two (badly!) but with hindsight I think it could be only one that applied to both roads.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Paul.

 

That certainly does help Paul, thanks very much.  I'll try to get my head around it all, re-jig my diagram - and then come back with some more questions!!!

[Graham T]

Ok, I think we're getting there...

 

Here's the latest version:

 

 

Trap points are indicated by the short red lines.  They will just have to be cosmetic.  I wasn't entirely sure what you meant by the trapping end of the points being driven off the main line point; have I got it right in the pic here?  A rod driving the trap points coming from the main line point that splits into the platform and the bay?  If I've got that right, would there be any other rods running to the trap points?

 

I've left off the FPL rods to keep the pic from getting too crowded, but I think then that every point with an FPL has two rods running to it from the signal box?

 

Could I put the bracket signal at the other end of the bridge?  Just off the photo.  I just thought it would look better to spread things out a little, rather than having everything on the same side of the river.

 

Finally (well for now, anyway) would the ground discs all be facing away from us in this view?

Edited July 15, 2021 by Graham T
Stray FPL...

[Graham T]

The trap points will be single-bladed, as apparently that's what the GWR used (yes, I do research things occasionally!)

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

Trap points are indicated by the short red lines.  They will just have to be cosmetic.  I wasn't entirely sure what you meant by the trapping end of the points being driven off the main line point; have I got it right in the pic here?  A rod driving the trap points coming from the main line point that splits into the platform and the bay?  If I've got that right, would there be any other rods running to the trap points?

Right idea, wrong points!  They are operated by the same lever that operates the first set of point as you come off the bridge.

 

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

I've left off the FPL rods to keep the pic from getting too crowded, but I think then that every point with an FPL has two rods running to it from the signal box?

Correct.  One to the point and one going beyond to the FPL.

 

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

Could I put the bracket signal at the other end of the bridge?  Just off the photo.  I just thought it would look better to spread things out a little, rather than having everything on the same side of the river.

I think so.

 

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

Finally (well for now, anyway) would the ground discs all be facing away from us in this view?

Yes!

 

One final point (actually about a signal, boom boom)

The ground disc coming from the sidings needs to be at the trap point (like the one in the loop).

 

Paul.

[Graham T]

Thanks very much indeed Paul.  Last tweaks now done, and here's the plan.

 

 

Now I just have to build it all...

[Graham T]

Well that's the first trap point built.  It's not brilliant by any means, but I think it will pass muster once it's been painted to blend in with the rest of the track.  And stock runs over it ok, most importantly!  Please ignore the incredible moving engine shed.  It's final home will be the spot that I'm using as my workbench right now.

 

[5BarVT]

4 hours ago, Graham T said:

Thanks very much indeed Paul.  Last tweaks now done, and here's the plan.

 

 

Now I just have to build it all...

Fine as shown, but if you have difficulty fitting the ground disc between the loop and the siding it could always go on the left of the line (as viewed, right as seen by driver).

Paul.